Give the PUPs a chance!!!

[Daryn2889]

Cmon people, Puppetmasters can be really good. I don't see why people don't invite them into their parties. It is kinda insulting in a way. People believe just because someone's a puppetmaster, they have no skill and will not in anyway be an asset to a party. We are great assets to parties, in fact. We are very flexible DDs, and we have a strong pet to boot. Remember Puppetmaster also have the ability to spam spells if they have the Mage frame. It wouldn't even be a bad idea to have us tank. We can just do so much, why not invite us? If there is no Monk seeking, why not invite the Puppetmaster who is seeking instead of not inviting anyone at all? Remember it's not exactly the Race/Job of the player, but it's the skill of the person behind the screen.

[Feba]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

To put it simply: PUP is a poorly designed class. They have no real benefit over any regular DD, though most regular DD have SOME benefit over them. /sea all pup on my server shows 11 people right now. The highest i've seen in the last week was 15. That's all pups, 1-75.


The few times I have PTd with a PUP, the damage has been very lackluster. I hate to say it, but PUP just sucks as a job class. The ONLY way I see it being useful is if SE gives them a lot more control over their puppet with AF.

[Bishop]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

It's true, puppetmaster can actually act as a pretty good DD despite what people think. Next time, try parsing their dmg. Their puppets have unlimited MP if you keep reactivating it and it can spam nukes. Unfortunately, this isn't common knowledge and people are unsure of what role a puppetmaster plays in a pt and just ends up avoiding it as a whole.

[Daryn2889]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

To put it simply: PUP is a poorly designed class. They have no real benefit over any regular DD, though most regular DD have SOME benefit over them. /sea all pup on my server shows 11 people right now. The highest i've seen in the last week was 15. That's all pups, 1-75.


The few times I have PTd with a PUP, the damage has been very lackluster. I hate to say it, but PUP just sucks as a job class. The ONLY way I see it being useful is if SE gives them a lot more control over their puppet with AF.

It really is not bad as you say it is. Sure it is not complete yet because it was the last job that was announced out of the three and it doesn't even have the AF yet, who would expect it to be fully complete. That doesn't mean that they are finished with it.

The only thing that those results about your server show is that people are kinda ignorant towards the job and they won't even give it a chance. I talk to people who say it suck, yet they don't even get the job up to level 8. Maybe the people who you partied with didn't do so much damage because they were in-experienced. With the right attachments (which aren't even complete yet), PUPs can do a lot. Flash is really helpful to parties, don't you think?

[Ellipses]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

It's kind of odd to speak about PUP's capabilities in the present tense while maintaining that they're obviously not complete yet in the same breath. If they're so awesome now, why does it matter that they're not complete yet? Surely making them complete would make them massively overpowered if that's the case. Which will only lead to a nerf. Perhaps they really are rather mediocre right now, but have the potential to be quite good once they're more complete, with future updates?

Personally, I wouldn't list the ability to spam spells as a selling point. That's bound to get fixed. If PUPs get popular because of that, and then it's taken away (and it will be), it's going to bring the same kind of backlash as DRGs no longer getting ridiculous penta-spam.

I'm waiting to see where it goes with the future updates. I'd rather expect mediocrity and get something better than expect something better and get mediocrity.

[Bishop]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

as long as it is an in game tactic that helps out the party in some way, it is a selling point. In fact, when drgs could spam penta 3-4 times a fight, that was their selling point. Until SE does fix that, it probably is the strongest ability of a pup.

[Murphie]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

11 is the magic number for PUPs on Bahamut too. I tried to like the job, but as it is right now, I just can't see what the point of inviting one is.

[qaitakalnin]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

I agree with Feba, the pup's dont offer anything that another dd cant do better. The dmg they do is on par with another dd, pups dont get access to some of the really cool dd gear (hauby is the first to come to mind while although definitly a luxury it still hurts not to have access). Since most of their gear seems to be mage minded (which i still am not sure why) it is hard for them to keep up with a decently outfited DD. They were popular when they first came out cause they were new and people were trying them out, but it was quickly realized that they are just a fill in job, not really great but good enough to fill in. I played with pup for a while but got bored with it but am planning to go back to it soon as i did really enjoy it. I personally thing that it is better suited for dou or trio with smns, bsts or other pups. Time will tell how SE's developers feel about it though.

[Daryn2889]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

It's kind of odd to speak about PUP's capabilities in the present tense while maintaining that they're obviously not complete yet in the same breath. If they're so awesome now, why does it matter that they're not complete yet? Surely making them complete would make them massively overpowered if that's the case. Which will only lead to a nerf. Perhaps they really are rather mediocre right now, but have the potential to be quite good once they're more complete, with future updates?

Personally, I wouldn't list the ability to spam spells as a selling point. That's bound to get fixed. If PUPs get popular because of that, and then it's taken away (and it will be), it's going to bring the same kind of backlash as DRGs no longer getting ridiculous penta-spam.

I'm waiting to see where it goes with the future updates. I'd rather expect mediocrity and get something better than expect something better and get mediocrity.

Truth is I love the class so much, so of course I am going to think of it highly. I know there are things that need to be fixed, and yea it has a TON of potential. There ARE restrictions to the spamming of spells. There is a timer between deactivating, reactivating, and then deploying again and if the puppet gets hit when you try to do that and then deactivate it, you can't summon it back for another 20 minutes. This class has already impressed me and I know it has a lot of potential, even though personally I think it's great. I won't expect any less than great when it is complete.

[Feba]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

spell spam will probably be taken care of the same way ElementalSpirit can't spam spells

[Ellipses]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

Well, that's pretty much my point. That was DRG's selling point. DRG didn't need that as a selling point, they were, and are, great without it. But because people got so used to DRG = penta-spam, when multi-hit WS TP gain was changed, nobody wanted DRGs anymore.

If people start equating PUPs with MP-less magic spam, and then that's taken away, any popularity the class will have gotten from it will go out the window and it'll be back at square one. Honestly, I hope it gets fixed before it gets popular, because that's less long-term damage to PUP's reputation.

[Daryn2889]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

I agree with Feba, the pup's dont offer anything that another dd cant do better. The dmg they do is on par with another dd, pups dont get access to some of the really cool dd gear (hauby is the first to come to mind while although definitly a luxury it still hurts not to have access). Since most of their gear seems to be mage minded (which i still am not sure why) it is hard for them to keep up with a decently outfited DD. They were popular when they first came out cause they were new and people were trying them out, but it was quickly realized that they are just a fill in job, not really great but good enough to fill in. I played with pup for a while but got bored with it but am planning to go back to it soon as i did really enjoy it. I personally thing that it is better suited for dou or trio with smns, bsts or other pups. Time will tell how SE's developers feel about it though.

Yea I agree with you in the sense that I don't understand why PUPs are only restricted to mage-oriented gear, but we will see when the update comes out. Honestly when I was in a party before, I was out-damaging the SAMs there, and my Puppet was hitting pretty hard.

Double Post Edited:

Well, that's pretty much my point. That was DRG's selling point. DRG didn't need that as a selling point, they were, and are, great without it. But because people got so used to DRG = penta-spam, when multi-hit WS TP gain was changed, nobody wanted DRGs anymore.

If people start equating PUPs with MP-less magic spam, and then that's taken away, any popularity the class will have gotten from it will go out the window and it'll be back at square one. Honestly, I hope it gets fixed before it gets popular, because that's less long-term damage to PUP's reputation.

Well that is not the only thing a Puppetmaster can/will be able to do well. Puppetmasters are solid DDs, I don't know why people don't see that. Just because they can't use the greatest armor in the world, they can still hit pretty hard and they have added power with their puppets. Ifthey take magic spamming away, they take it away, who cares? People need to find other aspects of Puppetmasters that make them useful.

[nanatsu]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

Well all I can say is that I've partied with pups in the higher and lower levels, and they haven't been able to do all that much damage, even when you factor in their pet damage. Now it could be extremely bad luck, I don't know, but it's hard to give pups a chance when I've been shown repeatedly that they just aren't all that great. And the higher they get, the more noticeable it gets. I've even asked in these forums about the pup job and haven't gotten any especially promising feedback. So I dunno. Give me some screenshots or parser logs. Do something. I don't mind you proving me wrong.

[Daryn2889]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

Well all I can say is that I've partied with pups in the higher and lower levels, and they haven't been able to do all that much damage, even when you factor in their pet damage. Now it could be extremely bad luck, I don't know, but it's hard to give pups a chance when I've been shown repeatedly that they just aren't all that great. And the higher they get, the more noticeable it gets. I've even asked in these forums about the pup job and haven't gotten any especially promising feedback. So I dunno. Give me some screenshots or parser logs. Do something. I don't mind you proving me wrong.

I'd love to show you something, but I couldn't now because I'm not playing and I'm on vacation and I don't have the game with me. When I get home, I'll definatly show you something.

[Icemage]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

C rank Hand to Hand as best weapon skill + Mediocre pet damage = lackluster DD without good weaponskills.

The spell spamming ability is OK, but it's a hell of a lot of work for not a lot of payoff.

I'm looking forward to the update and what it holds in store for Puppetmasters. Right now, there's just no tangible reason to play one; no high level attachments, no ability to restrict or expand the spell repertoire if it's in caster mode.

I'd like to see Puppetmasters get upgraded to at least rank B hand to hand, with maybe a second weapon skill at B- rank to give them some flexibility, plus some stronger or upgradable attachments to give them the same sort of flexibility that Corsairs and Blue Mages currently enjoy.


Icemage