Fighter/Spellcaster

[Mycraell]

I'm a level 17 Elvaan warrior, and am eagerly anticipating getting a sub job. Ultimately, my ideal character would be one that mixes melee and spellcasting, whether or not it is generally looked upon as an 'effective' mix. To me, it is about fun, and this combination of jobs is going to provide me with the most fun, engaging character.

Having said that, i don't want to be massively underpowered. I understand that red mage/ninja is a common combination - and is something that i wouldn't mind exploring.
In terms of magic jobs, i'm looking at blue mage and red mage, as i would ideally like a little bit of offensive and defensive magic. In terms of melee, i really like the look of paladin, ninja, dark knight and samurai - but warrior is also plausible.

I think i'm leaning towards using blue mage, as it seems the most capable of being an effective job combo with a melee related job. However, in terms of spells i guess a red mage will be better for more nuke-type spells, etc.

I guess what i would like to propose is a constructive discussion on how a successful melee spellcaster could be created and used. Even if you don't think it's a good idea, i'd appreciate constructive ideas on how it could work, or could be made to work, rather than flaming.

As my plan stands at the moment, when i unlock sub jobbing, i was going to sub my WAR and level up red mage. Upon reachng level 30, i guess investigating the newer jobs is the direction i'll head.

Thanks for any replies, they're much appreciated.

[neighbortaru]

Re: Fighter/Spellcaster

go for BLU then. RDM is not a fighter/spellcaster; it's very much a spellcaster.

as for the spells, BLU has some awesome spells, well, at least until they decided to nerf them

[AngryUndead]

Re: Fighter/Spellcaster

who brought out the bat?

I've heard of no nerf...

But anyway, I agree with neighbortaru. Redmage doesn't seem to be the thing to do for melee until way late in the game when you can go solo. The damage is pretty small.

Dark Knight may be another way to go.

[Sethe]

Re: Fighter/Spellcaster

When I saw the title of the thread the immediate things that came to mind were DRK and PLD.

[Ziero]

Re: Fighter/Spellcaster

Rdm is never much for meleeing, even when soloing. They win fights by surviving longer, not killing faster. As it stands Blu is the best 'melee mage' job class out there with Nin in a sense being number two and Drk being 3 imo. A rdm could easily go 10-75 without ever needing to swing a sword in an Exp pt, but Blu, Nins and Drks are all needed to melee and cast their spells for whatever purposes.

Nins spells are best to enfeeble the mob and nuke for decent dmg past a certain lvl, while their melee becomes both strong and fast gear depending. But their 'magic' is item based, meaning you'll have to purchase consumable supplies to cast your spells making a well played Nin one of the most expensive jobs.

Drk are primarily Melee DD, with their expertise in massive two handed weapons and numerous att enhancing abilities. Their spells, though skill wise stronger then Rdm, cap out at lower tiers reducing their effectiveness. While Rdm get tier II nukes, Drk get tier I, while Rdm get tier III nukes, Drk only get tier II ect. Drks best magic however are the "Abs-" line of spells as well as Drain and Aspir. None of their magic is really meant for dmg, but for weakening the mob and enhancing their own abilities for a short time.

Blu on the other hand are capable of doing decent Dmg with both spells and melee at the same time. With a better sword skill then rdm as well as better sword options (joy-toy excluded) blu can melee at the front line like many other DDs. Also, having numerous 'physical' spells means they have to be close and focus on their melee skill for these spells to hit. With the ability to SC and MB all by themselves Blu are the best at being 'melee mages' in my opinion.

[Icemage]

Re: Fighter/Spellcaster

Doing fight/magician combinations in FFXI is not terribly efficient due to one major drawback:

Magicians use MP.
To recover MP, you need to rest.
Resting reduces TP.
You need TP to perform weaponskills in melee.

Of your proposed jobs, Blue Mage fits your definition best, but even blue mages have their limits. Due to a general inability to recover their MP independently (aside from a weak auto-refresh at much later levels that doesn't really support the MP cost of their spells), Blue Mages lack the general indestructibility of a red mage, but have significantly better offensive abilities to make up for it.

BLU/WAR is at least a moderately viable tank up through level 30, but be aware you're going to need to shift roles more heavily into a caster role.

Take the time to level at least one mage-based subjob like White Mage (and the Thief job as well, if you're planning on being an offensive Blue Mage). This may seem tedious, but it's very much going to be necessary if you don't want to sit in town for hours on end wondering why no one will invite you to join their parties.

While playing to enjoy yourself is OK, you also need to keep in mind that there are 5 other people in an XP party also paying for the privelege to be there, and they deserve just as much consideration as you are asking for.


Icemage

[Tirrock]

Re: Fighter/Spellcaster

You're in luck. Before this expansion you either had to deal with PLD, which is usually fairly weak in melee/magic damage and high on defensive abilities... DRK, which has powerful melee, but their spells are rarely used. Or RDM, who lacks melee power and is primarly a caster, not a melee anyway.

BLU has a large list of spells to use, some defensive, most offensive, and meleeing is pretty much required for them. I believe in this section of the thread (that or the BLU section of the forum) there's a guide on how to get BLU, incase you have questions on how to unlock it.

[Mycraell]

Re: Fighter/Spellcaster

Thanks for the quick replies. It does make sense to level other mage jobs in order to go with the blue mage, but i see that you mentioned thief in there as well. Is it the case that thief is one of the best melee related jobs to couple with a blue mage? I have to say, i am not alltogether familair with the benefits/drawbacks of the thief job, other than the obvious sneak attack.

In addition, i can see how a blue mage/warrior mix can work - at least for lower levels. But for this particular combination, do you think there will be any massive differences between the positioning of each job? For example, a BLU/WAR or a WAR/BLU? Is there anything in particular that will make a BLU/WAR better than a WAR/BLU?

[Suichi]

Re: Fighter/Spellcaster

WAR is hindered by the low MP of a BLU sub, while BLU would have enough MP plus the power of a WAR sub.

IMO, at least.

[Tirrock]

Re: Fighter/Spellcaster

A BLU/WAR will have MP as their main job. A WAR/BLU will not. Plus the spells would be half-level anyway. At level 20 WAR/BLU, you'd have less MP than a level 10BLU and spells up to level 10 for blue mages. Their effectiveness would probably be about the same as a level 10 BLU trying to hit something a level 20 is exping off of too...

BLU/THF works well because at higher levels BLU get some powerful spells that work with sneak attack. Ninja sub also works, although I hear for pure damage, /THF works the best for them.

[Icemage]

Re: Fighter/Spellcaster

/WAR is generally subbed for Provoke, Attack Up, Defense Up, and Double Attack (ok, and Warcry at level 70/35, but that's just icing). These traits and abilities are not weakened significantly when equipped as a subjob.

/BLU on the other hand only really has access to two viable spells when subbed, both defensive : Coccoon (Self-only DEF+50%) and Healing Breeze (area effect heal).

---

The reason BLU/THF works is Sneak Attack can be activated to improve the damage of any physical blue magic (particularly single-hit ones like Dimensional Death). I've seen some huge numbers from BLU/THF at level 30+, continuing on past level 70.


Icemage

[Neomage]

Re: Fighter/Spellcaster

I would take WAR to 18, then switch to THF and take THF/WAR to 30(or 37, you'll need it there eventually) Once you hit 30, you can unlock BLU, PLD, and DRK that fit the type of job you want. On all of them, you will want to go job/WAR untill 30, then job/THF untill 75, possibly. If you chose to level BLU, you will want to finish leveling WAR/THF to 37 as well as BLM or SMN to 18 and WHM to 37(eventually) if you go PLD, you will onlky need /WAR at 37, and if you go DRK, you will only need WAR and THF. Although it seems like a burden to level WHM, BLM and SMN also, keep in mind that these jobs(WHM especially) can also melee, just not as well as the above jobs. The versatillity of being BLU/WHM or WAR or THF will, in the long run, be really fun and sueful to have.

[Karinya]

Re: Fighter/Spellcaster

Thanks for the quick replies. It does make sense to level other mage jobs in order to go with the blue mage, but i see that you mentioned thief in there as well. Is it the case that thief is one of the best melee related jobs to couple with a blue mage? I have to say, i am not alltogether familair with the benefits/drawbacks of the thief job, other than the obvious sneak attack.

In addition, i can see how a blue mage/warrior mix can work - at least for lower levels. But for this particular combination, do you think there will be any massive differences between the positioning of each job? For example, a BLU/WAR or a WAR/BLU? Is there anything in particular that will make a BLU/WAR better than a WAR/BLU?

BLU/WAR has higher blue magic skill than WAR/BLU and access to higher level blue magics such as Death Scissors, Frenetic Rip, Vertical Cleave etc. It also has MP based on its main job. BLU/THF has most of the benefits of BLU/WAR and can also use Sneak Attack and Trick Attack in conjunction with some of those powerful abilities.

WAR/BLU, on the other hand, has a much wider selection of gear, and access to some very powerful weaponskills like Full Break, Raging Rush and Rampage. Cocoon's effectiveness is percentage based, so the more DEF you already have, the more you gain from Cocoon; thus, WAR/BLU, which can wear most of the heaviest armor in the game, gains much more DEF than BLU. However, many other blue magics will be nearly useless because of WAR/BLU's lack of skill with them. WAR also has Aggressor, which is not avaiable subbed, and other WAR job abilities become available earlier (particularly Double Attack at 25, when everyone else has to wait until 50), in addition to some very nice double attack gear and merits at later levels.

As you level up, the same patterns will generally be there - WAR/BLU has more HP and physical stats, WAR abilities, heavier armor (after a certain point), stronger weapons and weaponskills, but significantly less MP and much weaker blue magic (both because of resist problems, and because of the level requirements on the spells themselves).

If you want something that is a hybrid of melee and casting, WAR/BLU is probably not for you - they are very poor at casting anything but a few buffs and heals.


Before you get to level 30 I would suggest WAR/MNK or RDM/WHM. They are some of the most effective combos (with those main jobs) that are possible at early levels. Also: If you don't like playing several different jobs, and different kinds of jobs with different playstyles, FFXI may not be a good game for you. Having a well-rounded character with many different jobs leveled has many benefits and you can miss out on a lot by focusing too narrowly.

After that, based on your preferences, I think you should probably try BLU *and* NIN. Take them both up to 40 or so before making a final decision, since it takes some time to get a feel for the way each job works. (This will also make them available as subjobs for whatever you *do* pick as a main, and to use in 40 cap missions and BCNMs.)

[Randwolf]

Re: Fighter/Spellcaster

Don't sub any offensive magic that you want to actually see some damage or effect from. So, a /BLU would be fairly uneffective and would most likely disappoint you in what you are looking for. Healing/Enhancement magic doesn't suffer to the same degree because you are not getting resists to the spells.

[Mycraell]

Re: Fighter/Spellcaster

I can see the benefits of levelling more of a broad range of jobs - and it is not something i'm going to shy away from. I can safely say that FFXI is for me, and i am enjoying it thoroughly so far. :D

Furthermore, these replies have been very helpful, and i very much appreciate your ideas and advice. I just cant wait until i unlock the BLU job, so that i can then play around with it's sub jobs and gain a more concrete idea of what i will prefer.