Melee Jobs and HNMs

[xTempestx]

I've really been wanting to play a melee job like Dragoon or DRK lately but I'm afraid that I'll be left out of HNMs, Gods, and other fun stuff you get to do at high levels. Do melees get to do all of this or what else do they do?

[Rodin]

Re: Melee Jobs and HNMs

I've really been wanting to play a melee job like Dragoon or DRK lately but I'm afraid that I'll be left out of HNMs, Gods, and other fun stuff you get to do at high levels. Do melees get to do all of this or what else do they do?

YES, YOU NEED MELEES FOR HNMS/GODS. A lot of people have been asking this question, and honestly, I don't think people should really worry about HNMs at lower levels. More and more, I see people worrying about HNMs at my BLM's level range (64-66ish). And honestly, ALL these people generally suck in parties. What you SHOULD be worrying about is how you are playing, how you're equipment is. Is it decent? You don't need godly equipment to be a good player. Most people who worry too much about HNMs at lower levels just burn it to 75, and don't think about things like that. Your time for an HNMLS will come. BUT, the HNMLS you get into will be determined by how you play, more-so than your job. Your job IS important a lot of times. But if you don't worry about how you're playing more, somebody in the HNMLS you're trying to get into could very well say, "No, he doesn't do XXXX right, he doesn't voke and turn the mob when needed, he misses 1/2 of his skillchians." etc....etc....etc....

[Aeni]

Re: Melee Jobs and HNMs

If an HNMLS is too preoccupied with the kinds of jobs that they are looking for, rather than basing their decisions more on the quality of the players they're inviting, then that HNMLS sucks. I'm sorry, but there's more than one way to win battles and if everyone is hell bent on zerging things with an army of BLMs or SMNs, then there's no way that skill is involved.

But I agree with Rodin. Rather than be obssessed with something that won't happen for months, you should focus on honing your skills and capping as much of your skills on that job class. The better you are, the better your chances of being noticed by a good HNMLS.

[xTempestx]

Re: Melee Jobs and HNMs

i know i should just enjoy the game but i dont want to get to 75 in a few months and then be left with nothing to do

[Rodin]

Re: Melee Jobs and HNMs

Trust me, at 75, even w/o an HNMLS, there's PLENTY to do.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Melee Jobs and HNMs

Seriously. I quit my end game LS cause they infringed on my real life stuff. You'll quickly realize that there is stuff in the game that does not require HNMLS.

Then again, it's Sunday and I have school in the morning, so nvm.

[Icemage]

Re: Melee Jobs and HNMs

If an HNMLS is too preoccupied with the kinds of jobs that they are looking for, rather than basing their decisions more on the quality of the players they're inviting, then that HNMLS sucks. I'm sorry, but there's more than one way to win battles and if everyone is hell bent on zerging things with an army of BLMs or SMNs, then there's no way that skill is involved.

Not entirely true. HNMLS "generally" only look for specific jobs when they're short - it's possible to get in with melee jobs, but it's much more likely to get in with a support job, or rather multiple jobs at 75.

Good HNMLS usually are pretty picky about who they invite as far as quality and attitude, though. But this isn't to say that job selection isn't an issue either. Melee jobs are largely interchangable for most fights, so they tend to be viewed with less favor than tank or mage jobs.

With that said, these days, most really good high-end HNMLS can pick and choose who they want to join, and it's extremely unlikely that you'll get into any of the really good ones without at least 2 level 75 jobs, one of which is non-DD. On top of that you need a good attitude, and have a reputation for playing smart and not being a jerk.

Exceptions are occasionally made, but not often, and almost never for someone who has only a single level 75 melee job.

But I agree with Rodin. Rather than be obssessed with something that won't happen for months, you should focus on honing your skills and capping as much of your skills on that job class. The better you are, the better your chances of being noticed by a good HNMLS.

This part I can agree with. Just because you have an "in-demand" job does not make you a shoe-in to join a good HNMLS - it might get your foot in the door, but if you have a horrible reputation for being unwise, selfish, and/or annoying, that's going to blackball you for eternity no matter how many level 75 jobs you end up with.


Icemage

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Melee Jobs and HNMs

For our ls the process is basically this:

First its best if there is someone in the ls that is familiar with you. When you apply you're asked if you know anyone in the ls and it definately helps. If you don't know anyone in the ls, then the process takes longer because we do a background check.

You must read our app requirements and check our list of wanted jobs. If you have a wanted job and fit the requirements, then you can sign up for an account on the forum. As long as you don't have a horrible reputation proceeding you, your account will be ok'd and then you can post your app.

While your app is posted members of the ls may ask you questions on the forum or they may contact you in game. As soon as someone sees that your app has been posted, it will also be posted in the private section where we discuss it. People are encouraged to tell of any experiences they have had with you, good or bad.

You'll then be required to contact the person you know in the ls or a leader or sac about events that you can attend. It is up to YOU to find out events for the day. This shows interest and initiative. After you've attended a few events (the amount varies with each app), your app will be posted in the polling section for people to vote. The choices are Yes, No, and Need further testing.

After the poll has been up at least 5 days, if your approved at the next event you will be pearled. If you've been rejected, a sac or leader will contact you. If we feel you need further testing, you will be told and then its up to you to decide if you want your app pulled or not or if you'll still attend events for further testing.

Now as you can imagine, this all takes time. 50% of the people who apply want immediate access to the ls and end up dropping their app because they don't want to wait that long. Of the 50% left, we usually have 25% that do not show interest or initiative to contact an ls member to be able to find out about events. The rest vary but about 15% usually make it in but if they last is another thing. Endgame HNM'ing is not for everyone. You do have to adjust your real life schedule sometimes. Our ls is a much more flexible one than most but we still do expect a certain degree of participation from people and that requires a committment that some people just aren't willing to give. Turn around can be high in some HNM's because of this.

[Tirrock]

Re: Melee Jobs and HNMs

This part I can agree with. Just because you have an "in-demand" job does not make you a shoe-in to join a good HNMLS - it might get your foot in the door, but if you have a horrible reputation for being unwise, selfish, and/or annoying, that's going to blackball you for eternity no matter how many level 75 jobs you end up with.


Icemage

I wish I could say this was true. But often times LS's just judge the opinion of a few key people, not the general consensus. I can name cases of this in every NA linkshell that's killed a wyrm on midgardsormr. But I won't. (I don't think things through often times, but I'm not about to go: "Hay guys, I just started playing again. Here's a list of people on my server that many people view as annoying/jerks. I hope I don't make their friends mad!")

I wish that more linkshells booted (or better yet, straightened out) their annoying players. Some linkshells don't because they go to camps all the time, they have many (key) jobs at 75, they're very well equipped already, and/or they're friends with the people with the power in the linkshell.

Anyway. My connection barely works in small groups, and becomes effectively non-functional when there are many people around. In short: I'm worthless in HNM. And honestly I was sick and tired of ground god camping anyway. I learned there's plenty of things to occupy yourself with, even if you take exping out of consideration. I've been crafting, doing quests, ENMs, limbus, assault, and even poking fun little NMs.

For many jobs, there are decent alternatives to endgame gear already out there, or just recently available through assault. So unless you absolutely-positively have to be the best equipped [insert job of choice here], you don't even need to look at HNM much. And as much as people have made fun of tu'lia (sky), it is a GREAT place for gear without a whole lot of camping.

[capitalistnihilist]

Re: Melee Jobs and HNMs

YES, YOU NEED MELEES FOR HNMS/GODS. A lot of people have been asking this question, and honestly, I don't think people should really worry about HNMs at lower levels. More and more, I see people worrying about HNMs at my BLM's level range (64-66ish). And honestly, ALL these people generally suck in parties. What you SHOULD be worrying about is how you are playing, how you're equipment is. Is it decent? You don't need godly equipment to be a good player. Most people who worry too much about HNMs at lower levels just burn it to 75, and don't think about things like that. Your time for an HNMLS will come. BUT, the HNMLS you get into will be determined by how you play, more-so than your job. Your job IS important a lot of times. But if you don't worry about how you're playing more, somebody in the HNMLS you're trying to get into could very well say, "No, he doesn't do XXXX right, he doesn't voke and turn the mob when needed, he misses 1/2 of his skillchians." etc....etc....etc....

Honing your skills for HNM as melee is pretty laughable. The ONLY "skill" a melee would need for many HNM is the ability to hit a WS macro at the right time for a skillchain allowing the BLMs to do the real damage.

I guess it could also be rough on you having to juggle inventory to make room for sleeping potions so you can pimp that Opo-Opo Necklace.

[Rodin]

Re: Melee Jobs and HNMs

Honing your skills is the difference between hitting Fafnir w/ your WS. And hitting a Darter with it.

[Karinya]

Re: Melee Jobs and HNMs

Well, you also need the skill to know when to leave party *without* claim. Otherwise bad things can happen. :p

Anyway... between dynamis, limbus, sky, sea and now assault, not to mention new JSE sets being introduced over the last year, the Big 3 aren't as big as they used to be. There's still some gear from them that is a bit better for some purposes than you can get anywhere else, but it's not nearly as much of a difference as it used to be, stat-wise. Black Belt items can be obtained through KS99, although it will take a long time since the drops are not guaranteed even if you win (so have fun collecting 500+ kindred seals).

It's still good for impressing people who /check you, though. It's even rarer (relatively speaking) because the population of high level players has expanded 100x, but the Big 3 don't pop any more often now then they did 2 years ago.

If you're talking about high-end content in general - pretty much anyone except a notorious pariah can get in to some LS that does them, it's a matter of social connections mostly. Having a 70+ WHM, BRD, RDM, BLM or SMN might help you some, but you can get in without it if enough of the current members think you're a reasonably good player and not a jerk.

The HNM scene is hard on thieves, though. SE really needs to do something for high-level thieves, partly a general reform of HNMs (more magic defense and/or resistance, less physical defense and especially evasion) and partly something THF-specific because they don't even compare well to other melee (since they have so many multihit WS, how about a level 65 or 70 trait to make SATA's damage bonus and guaranteed-crit effect apply to *all* hits of a WS, instead of just the first one? Or they could just add that effect to Assassin...)

[Rodin]

Re: Melee Jobs and HNMs

A THF with AF2 hands and Thief's Knife ALWAYS, has a place in an HNMLS
A THF with TH2 is still useful.
I know the HNMLS I'm in needs some THFs, because all the THFs started leveling NIN.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Melee Jobs and HNMs

I wish I could say this was true. But often times LS's just judge the opinion of a few key people, not the general consensus.

Yes, the weight of the leaders and sacs weighs heavy in ls's. In every ls there will be the inner circle, just no way of getting around that. I can say that in our ls, most apps are voted on by all members and everyone can have their say about that person. But sometimes you still don't know if your getting a bad egg until they are already in the fold.

I wish that more linkshells booted (or better yet, straightened out) their annoying players. Some linkshells don't because they go to camps all the time, they have many (key) jobs at 75, they're very well equipped already, and/or they're friends with the people with the power in the linkshell.

Yes, I too wish that more people would clamp down on bad behavior from ls members regardless of who they know, what job they have, or how often they participate. But if you brown nose your way into the inner circle, it can be pretty hard to vote you out. It truly is hard to find a balance in an ls when it comes to stuff like this. Some will want action to be taken yet when it is there will be an outcry from others. Kicking one person usually leads to another leaving or even more so sometimes that is weighed in on if you should kick or not. I know our ls has several real life friends in it, also married couples so if one of these people were to be kicked, you know there would be fallout to manage.

I guess it could also be rough on you having to juggle inventory to make room for sleeping potions so you can pimp that Opo-Opo Necklace.

FYI, sam sub is a requirement for melees in most HNM's.

The HNM scene is hard on thieves, though.

Well not all HNM's reject thieves because they are thieves. Its because they are a melee and with so many other melee jobs in the game, you have to set your limits on how much of each you need for your ls. Our ls is a more open minded ls and we consider all melee, including drgs and thfs (usually the 2 melee jobs that have the toughest time of it in endgame).