SE and their beloved Ninjas

[Aeni]

Re: SE and their beloved Ninjas

I'm calling B.S on this, that sort of quick kills isn't possible without drgs, thfs or rangers.

I'm going to have to stay on the sidelines on this one, but here's my PT setup in Lufaise Meadows on Saturday.

70 BLM/WHM
72 DRG/WAR
71 DRK/THF (me)
72 PLD/WAR (My friend, I believe the best tarutaru PLD on my server and has a level 71 NIN, 68 THF and is active in HNM)
71 WHM/BLM (My friend, really efficient at her mage role)
70 RDM/BLM (PLD's friend)

Key points here: DRG's 2nd job over level 70 and active in HNM. BLM's 2nd account (NIN at 70 as well)

Now, birds hit *effing hard* PLD was taking 200-300 per hit, even with his *best* tanking gear (This guy is not poor as he has mad NM and farming skills and can usually pull in 40-60 mil a month from hunting alone) The fights are mp depletive. And unless I'm mistakened, you can't really target rams alone without getting into fights with a few birds to clear some room (These things can aggro pretty far and is damn faster than raptors) On a short way pull, I nearly died, losing 1,100 HP in a scant 5 seconds...

Unless there's a magic here, the only kinds of parties that can get over 8K an hour in exp are NIN tanked parties. I can see where Artaxerxes is skeptical. Also, at least on my server, there can be upwards of 3 full level 75 parties exp'ing there.

[Omni]

Re: SE and their beloved Ninjas

I'm calling B.S on this, that sort of quick kills isn't possible without drgs, thfs or rangers.

you know these mobs aren't particularly tough mobs right? they go down pretty fast even w/o piercing type melee.

aeni: at 70 these are pretty challanging mobs. at 75, they're cake. nin or pld tank.

[DakAttack]

Re: SE and their beloved Ninjas

I've had Nocto Shield while leveling Paladin a few times. I'm not sure if I actually saw a difference though. Where Stoneskinga negates a certain amount of damage then disappears, Nocto Shield has a longer duration and seems to negate half a shield block's worth of damage.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: SE and their beloved Ninjas

you know these mobs aren't particularly tough mobs right? they go down pretty fast even w/o piercing type melee.

aeni: at 70 these are pretty challanging mobs. at 75, they're cake. nin or pld tank.

Ah yes, fyi my entire pt is meriting so we are all 75's. Sorry I forget to mention lvl. Our pld has good gear and takes 120 hits max from the birds. Like I said in my post, if you have a pld that does his research, gears up right, and knows his job, you can kick butt. It just doesn't seem that the majority of plds do this. I get the feeling that the attitude is "I'm a tank, there aren't many tanks in the game, so take me as I am or don't get exp." I prefer people that focus and wish to excel at their job and our plds definately fit that bill.

As far as pulling, my son is quite a talented puller and when he merits with us he knows that our tank LOVES rams. So he will go out of his way avoiding the birds just to pull a ram, especially if there are other pts in the area. The crazy pld LOVES Max HP Down! He says its more of a challenge then. >.< When I'm meritting whm, I call this the heart attack move! LOL

Aeni, if you have sam lvled up for a sub, try subbing that for your drk. Our ls drk found that drk/thf was ok but drk/sam really helped speed things up.

[Aeni]

Re: SE and their beloved Ninjas

Aeni, if you have sam lvled up for a sub, try subbing that for your drk. Our ls drk found that drk/thf was ok but drk/sam really helped speed things up.

Oh, trust me TGM, like I said, I didn't want to enter *that* argument since I didn't know what it's like at 75 and with meripo (Merit Point) parties. I had a feeling that you probably knew something or were doing something different (hence my use of "magic" term ) than other PTs or PTs my level range.

We didn't know if the Rams were "soft" compared to those ugly birds, but those birds were like taking Roc (With less HP) and fighting it >.<

I was wondering how /sam would work on a drk. Thanks for the suggestion, it does seem like you guys are having fun whenever you go out I just wish I'm able to (But since I do only p/u because of my limited playtime, I'm stuck with /thf until I hit 74...)

[little ninja]

Re: SE and their beloved Ninjas

lol i only merit bst/nin or nin/bst solo. an then its about the easiest thing in to world at 75. i use an exp ring, an a hour later i have 3k exp or merit. an then its on to bigger an better things. im happy with just that, id like to do more party type meriting with both jobs. but peeps still dont like bst. or people who see parting bst get all mad. with nin if im not lacking time. im lacking patience with norm pts.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: SE and their beloved Ninjas

Ya, the bst issue annoys me. We have a few bsts in the ls and enjoy pt'ing with them. They rock at so many of our events and our members are always glad to see them log on for events. People really need to get over their predjuice. A GOOD bst is a great addition to an ls or a pt.

[Aeni]

Re: SE and their beloved Ninjas

lol i only merit bst/nin or nin/bst solo. an then its about the easiest thing in to world at 75. i use an exp ring, an a hour later i have 3k exp or merit. an then its on to bigger an better things. im happy with just that, id like to do more party type meriting with both jobs. but peeps still dont like bst. or people who see parting bst get all mad. with nin if im not lacking time. im lacking patience with norm pts.

I was in this PT and this JP thf was like, "BST {No thanks!}" when the WHM in our party went to raise the BST that died near us. I guess when your pull rate is slow with a BST around, it's usually easier to blame the BST than anything else ...

Although I didn't know why the BST chose to "camp" on top of us. I understand the need to find a good location where there's enough charmable monsters around when fighting something like a Dhalmel, but at the same time, courtesy should extend both ways...

[little ninja]

Re: SE and their beloved Ninjas

I was in this PT and this JP thf was like, "BST {No thanks!}" when the WHM in our party went to raise the BST that died near us. I guess when your pull rate is slow with a BST around, it's usually easier to blame the BST than anything else ...

Although I didn't know why the BST chose to "camp" on top of us. I understand the need to find a good location where there's enough charmable monsters around when fighting something like a Dhalmel, but at the same time, courtesy should extend both ways...

what zone was this?

if your referring to bibiki bay, sadly the bst wasnt camping ontop of you on purpose. if he wasnt in the front half killing the dhamels with birds or rabbits. he was in the middle of the bay. an in that spot in the bay there are 3 rabbit that spawn in an area. thats the only place he could have camped safely without mass linkage or aggro. or depop of pets.

sadly since the update bst are forced to more localized spots. if we had no nerf. hed have swapped rabbits til he got an evan match, then found a camp away from you guys. but since the update, we have to make camp in the safest radius of our pets. in the bay that ends up being ontop of you.

lol then again we can not be talking about the same spots. lol

[Aeni]

Re: SE and their beloved Ninjas

what zone was this?

Eastern Altepa Desert. We camped at the zone to Western Altepa Desert (The zone point where there is an NPC of the nation in control of the region) We were the only party there. When I had done a /sea of the zone, I noted down how many players were in our level ranged and counted the number of yellow/gold names (Indicating party leaders) and found it to be roughly 3 parties at that time. We were one of them and I believe to the west of us, at the NW corner, there were 2 other parties. This of course leaves the NE corner free, which has TONS of beetles IIRC (But also has draw backs with Anticans) However, the BST looked to be equipped for a level 42-43 player, so Sand Beetles would only be easy prey for him. What I don't under stand is that because of the level difference between Dhalmels and Beetles, that you're liable to go through 2-3 beetles, sucking up all the exp mobs that we already were working on. Add another BST in the area (They were not partied) and we hardly got any exp. Dhalmels were too tough for us and we had to get beetle crap leftovers.

I think, though, that CN is still a better exp area (The "ball"-room) for a BST, only because there's so many pets to choose from: shrooms, saplings, crawlers, bees ... even lizards.

Sigh...

[Icemage]

Re: SE and their beloved Ninjas

I don't even think it's possible for a Paladin to complete 6-4 as the only tank unless they're equipped like a Ninja. They'll need an Emperor Hairpin, 4mil, a Scorpian Harness, 10mil, two Bat Earrings, 80k, Blind Potions, 15k, and a Wind Staff, 400k. On top of that there's countless Potions, Food, CCB polymers, etc. So if you ever see me in Sea it's because I copped out and bought gil.

I can suqeeze out +39 Vit and countless more Def when I need to, yet that's not nearly enough to mitigate any sort of damage? I keep trying this fight and every single time I'm being hit for 200+ damage a hit. This was obviously not meant to be tanked by anything that doesn't have shadows. Even if I were to mitigate let's say half the damage, and I'm being generous here, I would still be faced with the constant stun lock.

SE must be strong believers in the Taoist philosophy.

My group was one of the first to complete CoP 6-4 on Midgardsormr, and we used a PLD tank. Clear time 31 minutes, 27 seconds (I still have the video for it).

PLD/WAR, SAM/RNG, RNG/NIN, BRD/WHM, WHM/RDM, SMN/WHM.

Slow + Erase + Elegy + Paralyze to mitigate stunlock impact.

I know of several other groups that made it past 6-4 with Paladin tanks as well. If you're losing this fight, it isn't because you've got a paladin tank.

EDIT: I should mention that our PLD was not using Scorpion Harness nor Emporer's Hairpin. Just AF1 body and a Blink Band.


Icemage

[Intensity]

Re: SE and their beloved Ninjas

So this is what we've learned then.

Paladin is = to Ninja. It's just that the majority of players are of a skill level not up to the challenge of making it as efficient as Ninja. And I think we've more than cleared up the supposed imbalance of High Level content leaning towards Ninja tanks.

[capitalistnihilist]

Re: SE and their beloved Ninjas

Paladin is not equal to Ninja. All of the PLD in my LS agree with that statement also. ESPECIALLY in meripo pts! I mean come on, do you honestly think a half-assed pt with a PLD tank can get anywhere near 8-12k per hour with little effort? 8k is nearly bottom of the barrell also. I can randomly invite 2-3 other NINs 1x BRD and 1xRDM and pretty much count on getting 8k per minimum in sky even if half the pt members suck. On the other hand, get into a traditional pt with PLD tank and RDM/BLM/WHM or w/e and half the people suck? You'd be lucky to clear 3-4k per hour and you'd be lucky to do that if your mages suck and people are dying left and right.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: SE and their beloved Ninjas

Paladin is not equal to Ninja. All of the PLD in my LS agree with that statement also. ESPECIALLY in meripo pts! I mean come on, do you honestly think a half-assed pt with a PLD tank can get anywhere near 8-12k per hour with little effort? 8k is nearly bottom of the barrell also. I can randomly invite 2-3 other NINs 1x BRD and 1xRDM and pretty much count on getting 8k per minimum in sky even if half the pt members suck. On the other hand, get into a traditional pt with PLD tank and RDM/BLM/WHM or w/e and half the people suck? You'd be lucky to clear 3-4k per hour and you'd be lucky to do that if your mages suck and people are dying left and right.

You know it really is based on individual experience. Your a nin, what do we expect you to say!? LOL From my point of view, I see little difference. I pt with AWESOME plds from my ls and do just as well as when I pt with nins from our ls. So like I said, individual experiences infuence how we see things whether for good or for bad. I have no problems meriting with a pld and I'm currently playing mage jobs. Of course, I learn who is a good tank and who is not and I will not pt with people I consider bad tanks.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: SE and their beloved Ninjas

Also keep in mind that SE designed this game to be based around PLDs tanking. So there is a mob that's hitting too hard? Maybe what's needed ISNT to throw 2 NINs at it, but to change up how* you tank.

PLDs all tank more or less the same way, but there are differences. Maybe stacking on VIT and DEF won't cut it sometimes?

Personally, I've seen PLD/THFs do that Great Sword move of theirs for over 1k and get the hate back, contribute to the WS and deal damage. It takes bold pt setups, but in no way are PLDs limited to what they can do.

If I wanted to spend a kagillion dollars worth of gil, get the Excalibur, max out my stats and gear, I could Refresh, Melee and Enfeeble (even w/o staves) in exp. The point is tho, that to do it EFFECTIVELY, I need to apply myself above and beyond my job description.

Like casting Haste on myself so I Refresh faster. I'm not sure how many people do that, but the idea never dawned on me until a few months after I was 75.

Most people aren't willing to go beyond what is "required", and that's why the general population's experience wiith Paladins is mediocre, at best. In my opinion, you'll never excel as a player unless you are willing to do something radical and hope it pays off.