Why do people hate main healing?

[Orpheausjr]

Re: Why do people hate main healing?

Rdm is my main job, and Im always asked if can main heal. I dont mind being the main healer Im in a party for one thing a one thing only EXP. People just need to keep in mind that I can play a white mage(as a rdm) or a red mage, not both my mp can only go so far.
RDM for life

[DrivenTooFar]

Re: Why do people hate main healing?

What bothers me about the whole main healer thing is if you think about it there is only one true main healer, WHM. Lately on my server. there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of them running around so it doesn't seem wrong for other jobs to step up and heal if it's needed. If I were a RDM or a SMN and a party needed a healer I would gladly step up and fill the position because with so few healers around it would be hard to get into a party without doing so. Adding to this gripe, do you think SE will be adding another healer type job to the game because in my opinion it is sorely needed.

[Omni]

Re: Why do people hate main healing?

all i gotta say is, when you're in a party. do what is needed to make the party the best it can be. granted, there are times when certain pt configs just dont work. other than that, if you are in (for example) a 4 dd + rdm, brd pt for quick kills, the rdm will need to /whm and heal a bulk of the time. why? cuz that's what will keep the xp flowing and having a whm wouldnt be beneficial speed wise since the whm cant refresh while the rdm can refresh on top of ballads in addition to convert when needed.

just because you're better at something or not as good as something doesnt mean you cannot do it. if everyone only wanted to play the job how they wanted to and not be flexible, plus given the availbilty (or lack there of) of certain jobs, parties would be so difficult and scarce. you'd have drks that dont control their hate, blm wasting mp on constant nukes, ninjas that dont want to tank, random melee not wanting to setup for fuidama, rdm that dont want to cure... it would be a train wreck.

as far as why people hate main heal? ppl like to feel they are contributing to the battle. To some people, healing isnt as fulfilling/satisfying as to see YOURSELF land a 1000 dmg spinslash followed by a 1000 dmg light renkei and watch the hp bar of the mob just shoot from 50% to 5%. it all comes down to how willing you are to be a team player. for the most part, sadly, everyone wants to be the hero.

[Ghostraven]

Re: Why do people hate main healing?

I don't like the fact that someone's life is in my hands. I play on dialup most times and sudden disconnections or RL distractions are common. Plus I sometimes have a problem staying focused on one thing at a time and that could equal one dead tank.

Also I hate staring at lifebars for the majority of PT time..

much respect to whm who love their jobs, make no mistake I whm and in no way am I discrediting what they do.

[Faust]

Re: Why do people hate main healing?

This is part of the reason why I haven't lvl'd up my whm sub completely. I've been sticking w/blm sub since I've gotten back into the game.

There is a LOT that a rdm has to watch out for when partying and when you're concentration is getting split from debuffing, watching to recast if debuff goes, dispell, MB, watching party health bars, link occupier, etc.

So then why not just concentrate on healing? Because the same thing happens everytime I've conceded to being main healer... They complain there are no debuffs being thrown, they complain when I have to wait for MP because my pool isn't as big (and I got some decent stuff I'm wearing too). They complain that I'm not dispelling, or refreshing (when I was on Midgardsormr). They complain and complain.

So I stopped being a main healer. I refuse to accept a party as a main healer because you get no appreciation for it, and people gripe and insult you for being a sucky WHM. Well that's funny, last I looked I was playing a RDM. I came to have fun and play, not get insulted.

Now before someone asks me why I'm not debuffing and what not when I'm main healer, simple. I didn't do any other spells aside from maybe a dia or bio because i needed every available MP i could keep towards healing. Otherwise there were complaints every time i had to rest, and unless the party is willing to purchase juices for me, i'm gonna rest. ("God this is so slow, you're always resting!" Duh.)

RDMs are underappreciated enough as it is, don't need the extra crap.

Backup healer? fine. I'm down with that. Main, forget it.

[DrivenTooFar]

Re: Why do people hate main healing?

This is part of the reason why I haven't lvl'd up my whm sub completely. I've been sticking w/blm sub since I've gotten back into the game.

There is a LOT that a rdm has to watch out for when partying and when you're concentration is getting split from debuffing, watching to recast if debuff goes, dispell, MB, watching party health bars, link occupier, etc.

So then why not just concentrate on healing? Because the same thing happens everytime I've conceded to being main healer... They complain there are no debuffs being thrown, they complain when I have to wait for MP because my pool isn't as big (and I got some decent stuff I'm wearing too). They complain that I'm not dispelling, or refreshing (when I was on Midgardsormr). They complain and complain.

So I stopped being a main healer. I refuse to accept a party as a main healer because you get no appreciation for it, and people gripe and insult you for being a sucky WHM. Well that's funny, last I looked I was playing a RDM. I came to have fun and play, not get insulted.

Now before someone asks me why I'm not debuffing and what not when I'm main healer, simple. I didn't do any other spells aside from maybe a dia or bio because i needed every available MP i could keep towards healing. Otherwise there were complaints every time i had to rest, and unless the party is willing to purchase juices for me, i'm gonna rest. ("God this is so slow, you're always resting!" Duh.)

RDMs are underappreciated enough as it is, don't need the extra crap.

Backup healer? fine. I'm down with that. Main, forget it.

The people that you have partied with are my biggest problem. It's because of ignorant people like the ones described above that RDM don't want to main heal. If I invite a RDM to be main healer then that's all I care about. I don't need buffs or debuffs as long as the RDM is healing. Sure if not much healing is needed then they can toss out a few but as long as they're focused on healing then I won't ever get upset.

[locus]

Re: Why do people hate main healing?

Pssht. Bring it on, I say. Making a bad party work is always a fun personal challenge to me. You make it sound as if you've been stuck in parties where there are 5 zenei and 1 kouei for all your levelling experiences.

Main healer != only healer. If that's the case, something is seriously wrong with your party leader (Or you're still partying with people that think BLM/SMN is a good idea) and you should express your reservations, apologize politely, and leave.

Other logic disconnects that appeared in this thread:
- If you can't heal the party as fast as the party takes damage, and healing is the only thing you're doing, the party will blame and insult you. I think this is more of an attitude problem with your party, or a tank problem. Either way, I wouldn't party with those ridiculously judgmental people again. If they start bitching about the way you cure, why don't you bitch back at them about how little damage they do compared to the monk you partied with yesterday? Fair's fair.

-People that complain about how long it takes your mp to return. I'm convinced these either only exist on your server. I wouldn't quite know how to react to someone who actually complained about this, because I'd be too busy laughing my guts out.

- A lot of people who have never ever played WHM think that WHM is the only dedicated healing class and WHM can magically heal better than other mage classes. There is a small truth that Cure V is a very good spell - but speaking from a personal viewpoint - any WHM that relies on Cure V as his main cure ought to be slapped. Here's a small hint: Healing skill barely affects the amount you heal for. A WHM will heal for all of 3 hp more (per heal) than a RDM. The proper way to heal a tank (IMO) is to repeatedly use Cure 2 and 3 and reserve 4 and 5 for special occasions.

So what makes WHM a better healing class? Regen 2 and 3? They're nice spells, but they take a relatively long time to cast. More -Enmity? This shouldn't be an issue in an EXP party. Raise 2 and 3? People rarely die. People who assume that WHM is automatically magically a "better" healer than the other mp classes need to actually play one of each and see how little of a difference it actually makes. (In fact, WHM is sometimes a WORSE healer than RDM because they don't normally get fast cast and therefore their spells and naspells are slower)

Whm as the only dedicated healer? Puh-leeze. Even my BLM is perfectly capable of healing a party as long as I have support from at least one other mage.

If anything, "I refuse to main heal" on a RDM is a blinking red sign to me that says "I refuse to take responsibility for my poor playing skill, I'm really bad at reacting to status ailments and I refuse to be versatile." If I wanted debuffs as a priority, I'd get a ninja. Theirs are stronger. If I wanted a refreshbot, I'd get a bard - they do it better. If I wanted someone to MB, I'd get a BLM. The entire point of the RDM is that they can fill in any role that's needed - AND they bring Refresh and Dispel. Ironically, healing is the best thing that RDM is at substituting for.

I've actually refused to party with some RDMs before since all they do is Refresh and Dispel - I'd rather get another BLM that's actually willing to cure and sub RDM for dispel myself. I respect their right to be lazy as long as they respect my right to never ever party with them if possible.

Conversely from what you've mentioned, RDMs and BRDs and most other kouei on my server seem to have serious "prima-donna" attitudes these days. I find that in my experience, it's far more likely that these jobs have really bad attitudes because (sadly) they can find parties easily anyway, even with their bad dispositions. And I'll do everything possible to teach people that these classes are by no means essential to good exp.

-Yadda yadda yadda refuse to level whm subjob because I don't like to main heal (and it's not my fault, it's theirs!).

I guess by that logic, RNG shouldn't level NIN because it isn't supposed to tank. SMN shouldn't level WHM because it isn't supposed to cure. SAM should never level Warrior because they should never have to sub-tank after 60 and should TA off other people instead with /THF, which would be fine, except all the other melee classes had the same idea and also want to /THF, so you have no way of getting the monster to turn for fuidama.

...Actually, it suddenly makes sense why so few people fully understand fuidama now.

[Faust]

Re: Why do people hate main healing?

I've left plenty of parties with attitudes like I've mentioned. I don't stick around for it. I do take insult to the fact that because I don't like to main heal, that I've got poor playing abilities. I DON'T LIKE to main heal and will avoid it if I can, never said I was bad at it.

[tattyana]

Re: Why do people hate main healing?

i understand i quit whm at 34 cuase it got realy boring .... with nins and pld getting as good as they are you alomst never hve toheal any more jsut buff and stuff ad a pler to the mix and you got one heck of a boring job.. maybe it gets beter at higher lvls but i alwyas feel completly unnessary not to mention smn's and rdm's curing... maybe im just a crappy whm i dunno0

[Omni]

Re: Why do people hate main healing?

If anything, "I refuse to main heal" on a RDM is a blinking red sign to me that says "I refuse to take responsibility for my poor playing skill, I'm really bad at reacting to status ailments and I refuse to be versatile." If I wanted debuffs as a priority, I'd get a ninja. Theirs are stronger. If I wanted a refreshbot, I'd get a bard - they do it better. If I wanted someone to MB, I'd get a BLM. The entire point of the RDM is that they can fill in any role that's needed - AND they bring Refresh and Dispel. Ironically, healing is the best thing that RDM is at substituting for.

I've actually refused to party with some RDMs before since all they do is Refresh and Dispel - I'd rather get another BLM that's actually willing to cure and sub RDM for dispel myself. I respect their right to be lazy as long as they respect my right to never ever party with them if possible.

Conversely from what you've mentioned, RDMs and BRDs and most other kouei on my server seem to have serious "prima-donna" attitudes these days. I find that in my experience, it's far more likely that these jobs have really bad attitudes because (sadly) they can find parties easily anyway, even with their bad dispositions. And I'll do everything possible to teach people that these classes are by no means essential to good exp.

-Yadda yadda yadda refuse to level whm subjob because I don't like to main heal (and it's not my fault, it's theirs!).

I guess by that logic, RNG shouldn't level NIN because it isn't supposed to tank. SMN shouldn't level WHM because it isn't supposed to cure. SAM should never level Warrior because they should never have to sub-tank after 60 and should TA off other people instead with /THF, which would be fine, except all the other melee classes had the same idea and also want to /THF, so you have no way of getting the monster to turn for fuidama.

...Actually, it suddenly makes sense why so few people fully understand fuidama now.

sad but true. i just think people are confused. they always pick a job but try to play it like another job. ie: rdm wanting to be blm. war wanting to be thf. etc.

then again, everyone can play their job however they like. on the same token, i can make my party however i like. i have a good memory of player names+performances. you act selfish or dont know your role, you will be the last to get an invite from me next time.

[lionx]

Re: Why do people hate main healing?

The only thing that makes me sad is that WHMs dont seem to be as defined once RDMs learn CureIV Not that they arent but still.

[Enialas]

Re: Why do people hate main healing?

In reply to the above poster:

If you're Elvaan and still subbing BLM, you're going to have ridiculously ineffective converts. Most Elvaan RDM sub WHM because without DS, they gain very few MP when converting. SMN, perhaps, but /WHM is ultimately going to be more useful in more situations. Always check with the party leader what sub to bring. I don't think RDM is a debuff class as much as a versatile class that should find it perfectly simple to main-cure unless you happen to be fighting a HNM (or your tank is a moron).
<SNIP>

I find this post pretty funny, after I explain that I'm expected or demanded to sub blm for spells like Escape, you go on and talk about inefficency w/o Divine Seal.

1st I Convert and Slap on a Cure IV for 400HP then cast a Regen or 2, or Even a Drain or 2. Sure a DS Cure IV would have brought me up over my MP pool a little more easily and quicker, but as long as I bring my HPs over my MPs and as long as there's no undead around that's ALL I need.

2nd this Leaves me w/ Elemental Seal to use for Aspir or a Sleeping an Add or for an MB.

3rd Conserve MPs.

4th Warp. sure has no help in XP pt but if leader wants me to sub blm, I've got a ticket home.

5th since the previous post I haven't had to main heal since and every party's had a whm.

as far as you seeming to imply in a later post that (to paraphrase) "if you don't want to Main Heal as a RDM it's because you suck"

i consider this rude even though you didn't use these actual words. I've main healed and I can/will if necessary. in fact I even stated that in my previous post. Saying you don't like swimming to the bottom of a lake to get something someone dropped doesn't necessarily mean you WON'T do it or that you'll suck at it. I don't like working 16 hours a day 7 days a week, but if I have to do it, I will and try to make the best of it.

That is just how the "versitial" RDMs are, having to devote all thier time for 1 purpose, it just feels like you're so limited.

Like when I was at a friends house and they had to get something to drink so I played thier MNK for a few mins. (A job where all you watch is TP and your ability timers), it just seemed a little "plain" to me.

I never put in my /sea comment I won't main heal and I won't refuse if asked. However I prefer to be a RDM not a WHM. If there's something "wrong" w/ RDMs not wanting to pretend to be WHMs, the truth is, theres something wrong with that line of thought.

Cure isn't RDMs only line of spells, is there something wrong w/ a RDM that would rather be in a pt he could enfeble or nuke too? aparrently according to you the answer is "Yes"

[Orpheausjr]

Re: Why do people hate main healing?

Ok lol I think my last reply was taken the wrong way. I dont mind playing a whm with my RDM and I have trying to do both jobs, but as a Elvaan RDM my mp is a little low so when im whming my RDM I'll save mp for healing and over look the rdm spells (ex. REFREASH Ill never stop casting that no matter what).So in a nutshell I will main heal any day, and in that case dont get mad if for the most part im only healing.

P.S. You guys and girls rule its nice seeing so many replies to so many different topics

[Icemage]

Re: Why do people hate main healing?

Ok, let's talk about RDMs as main healers in an XP party for a moment.

Let's face it, RDMs pre-41(Refresh) have a very limited arsenal of spells:

- Good enfeebling skills, but in this level range, even WHMs are decent enfeeblers.
- Dispel, which is a good reason to invite a RDM
- Weak nukes, so they really can't provide the offensive punch of a BLM or SMN on magic bursts (though good gear can make up for some of this)
- Bunch of useless self-only buffs (enspells, phalanx, barspells, etc.)
- Cures

So what do you do as a RDM before you get Refresh? Answer: Use your most potent spells - Enfeebles and Cures. I noticed very little difference in my curing potency between my RDM and WHM jobs through level 40, and at 40+, the difference in available MP is huge. There's nothing wrong with main healing as RDM as long as you've got someone there to back you up when you're busy doing other stuff like casting Slow.

Now, post-Refresh, main healing gets trickier because you've got to try to juggle Refresh cycles while keeping people alive, and that can be very challenging if there's many spellcasters (but if there are, why are you main healing, hm?). It's still possible though, and while it's not comfortable, as long as you've got at least a part-time healer around (SMN or BRD), it's not terribly difficult.

Still, its a fact that curing is part of the RDM arsenal - an important one. If you really hate healing people, you really hamstring yourself and turn the very flexible RDM job into a single-dimensional Refreshbot.


Icemage

[Rodin]

Re: Why do people hate main healing?

Meh, after 41 most RDMs I partied with sucked at refresh cycles...it only got good at around 55, but even at 70 some RDMs still just suck at refresh.