Isn't it about time to drop the elitism and enjoy the game?

[Pounce]

My two cents.

I believe the root of the problem comes from how difficult it can be to get an exp party in this game.

JP in general seem to be more accepting of the whole "LFG syndrome". I could be wrong - maybe JPs rant all day about the issue on their boards, but this is the general feeling I got.

Many NA on the other hand, consider the whole LFG bit the biggest flaw in FFXI.

Read almost any FFXI board when someone asks "How can I get parties easier?". One of the most common answers to this question is "Get good gear".

It's logical if you think about it. Two DRKs are seeking. One has haub/dual snipers. The other wears AF and DEX rings. All else equal, who would get picked first? Thus, everyone becomes cutthroat on becoming superior to their peers so that they will be the first pick of party leaders, and not the poor sap who goes days without a party.

If you notice, most of this "gear elitism" is centered around melee jobs who suffer from the LFG syndrome the most. I've never seen a mage get ragged for not having "uber" equipment - even mages without Dark Staff don't get too much crap about it. Ditto for tanks. If they have appropriate (not uber) gear, most people could care less.

[Yuanlung]

From my personal experience, I find a lot of the JP vs NA thing is really just communication barrier and stereo typing.

I party with both NA and JP players from time to time, while some are just jerks, most are pretty decent people.

Something I have noticed that are really funny though, is in some cases, the "ass hat JP player" reported by other to be just another NA with Japanese search comment or simply a {English} {No Thanks}. :sweat:



As for the 'eliticism'...

Generally I don't find it a problem for someone to expect others in the party to have top notch/good/decent gears as long as he himself goes the extra mile with his own stuff. Keep in mind that these people are limiting themselves in party member selections by doing this.


Everyone has different level of expectations. Some are comfortable with just a modrately competent party, others want to build the best possible one. However, most people does have an expectation of some sort.

I mean, even the most tolerant of us wouldn't want to take a RDM missing Dispel and Refresh past 50 now, would we? (just a random example, no offence intended to anyone)

Everyone draws the line somewhere. Just some draws it higher then others. There is no reason to be sore just because you don't meet someone else's expectation. Big deal. Just fine another party that doesn't require you to have that haub+1/dual sniper+1/whatever multi-million gil gear.

[little ninja]

from my own personal exp. i have both a drk, an a war in the lvl 60 range. by the time my ninja had reached lvl 40, my ninja had recieved more party invites from the JP community, then my drk an war combined.

TRUTH: melee get screwed over in this game. so many DD an so few mage classes. an really only 1 true tank class. so yes as others have said, trying to get the best gear, might put you at the top of the invite list. would infact make you stand out.

TRUTH: communication barrier is a load of crap. seriously if this was a problem jp would not invite na mages, or na tanks. yet they still do. my op is simple. we all know what our job is. im a god damn tank. this means i get the crap kicked out of me, an i keep it up. my job is to keep you all alive no matter what. or as a DD. my job was to kick the crap out of the mob, an to do it to the point where i am about to steal hate, <guillotine> tp 100% <ready to start skill chain >. its not hard...so please spare me the communication barrier garbage.

[Pounce]

I mean, even the most tolerant of us wouldn't want to take a RDM missing Dispel and Refresh past 50 now, would we? (just a random example, no offence intended to anyone)

No, but quite a lot of people are willing to tolerate a RDM wearing scale mail, armed only with a sword (no staves/wands), eating melee food, casting no enfeebles, and constantly getting asked to refresh X party member. Many people will exalt and worship BRDs who do nothing but cast Ballad (and inconsistently at that) as gods.

In some extreme cases, parties will kick out the person complaining about the incompetent mage instead of kicking the mage.

Everyone draws the line somewhere. Just some draws it higher then others. There is no reason to be sore just because you don't meet someone else's expectation. Big deal. Just fine another party that doesn't require you to have that haub+1/dual sniper+1/whatever multi-million gil gear.

I notice you are a BLM. The situation isn't quite that simple when you're a melee job.

[Pillow]

Originally posted by Cali
Equipment job have you really played either of the job? ;;; I noticed little to no difference in my performance, from when I was using my sucking purple belt, and my brown belt... it's simply to look cooler...

Have you ever PTed with a SAM or DRK that doesnt have snipers? The difference is noticable >.> And now with Venerer<sp? Ring, alot of people use it with a sniper, which still works well, the 2 ACC there isnt noticable, the 8~10 all up just from the rings is though.

My post was more ment as to why (at least why I think) most people think they need all the best gear:

More of the reason people say "I cant level without this equip" is because they know every other person their job has that, and they will be chosen over the "gimp" one.

More like a chain reaction...I dunno. But when I start or join a PT, and I see someone "gimp" as people would put it, I dont say anything or complain, I dont have the best equip for my job either (electrums instead of astrals for example).

But I find it interesting JP people "dont care" about gear, but they get so annoyed if you dont eat food ? :sweat:

[UnnamedGalka]

Amen, Cali, amen.

I'd tell all the pompus elitists out there exactly what I think of them, but they're not worth the warnings. Leave them be with their close-minded, in-the-box thinking.

Tarus CAN be good melee!

Galkas and Elvaan CAN be good mages!

Player skill >>>>>> race/job combo.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A COOKIE-CUTTER CHARACTER TO BE GREAT!

[Pounce]

Tell that to the WHM/DRG =P

[csBahamut]

Have you ever PTed with a SAM or DRK that doesnt have snipers? The difference is noticable >.> And now with Venerer<sp? Ring, alot of people use it with a sniper, which still works well, the 2 ACC there isnt noticable, the 8~10 all up just from the rings is though.

Actually, I have, and they were JP too. The DRK had a Haub, and had 2 Tiger rings. They were Elvaan, and used Tuna Sushi. They hit perfectly fine, as in 80-85%. The DRK also did plenty of dmg. The only reason our DRG oputdamaged her was because he was using sushi too(including the wyvern damage).

My guess is that some Japanese just want to be able to communicate well. Problems happen, and you'll need good communication to survive, or some people just want to be able to chat. I know a few NA players that have been NA only for the same reason.

Elitism. I do believe this is more of an American problem than anything else. Sure, there will be elitists in other cultures, but it does seem more prominant in us Americans. It just seemed soo much more prominant in Diablo II than in iRO, IMO.

I think the whole elitism thing stems from people being used to console RPGs. Everyone was able to get the 'best' gear. There was no real competition to get the best gear. You could just go and get it. Who doesn't like having the best gear if you can get it? In MMORPGs though, the system is set up so that most people can't get the best gear.

Another reason that I think this elitism exists is because some players get spoiled in extremely good exp parties (i.e. multi-RNG or BLM parties that get 6-9K an hour). These people spend tons of time and money on good gear, so they only want to get super-fast exp to make up for the time spent getting that gear(or money spent on ammo).

I try not to condone any form of elitism, but I do have my standards (vital spells, useful SJ, Dark Staff 60+, etc.). I ran into this newbie player who I know give advice to every once in a while. I told them that he didn't need Astral Rings, but yet he still believes he *has* to have them. Some people just want to be the best.

[little ninja]

< JP onry > only if your a DD trying to invite them. if your a tank or mage. < yes please > NA JP OK . this is what i noticed on my server. an yes i have played 2 dd jobs, an 1 tank job during jp prime time.. they dont care if they can communicate with you or not.

i dont care if your an elitest or not. i do care when you think its ok to lvl in gear utterly useless. or gear way below on lvls. a drk at 61 wearing a wolf mantle, an beetle earrings.. thats a f' in joke. or what about the brd i saw in my 50's wearing lvl 20 armor.


TRUTH: mages an bards get away with murder, they can wear the cheapest crappiest gear, an nobody will say jack crap. for fear the mage will walk. they can have dumb subjobs an nobody would care, under lvled sub jobs nobody cares. they do not even need most of there spells. so unnamed i could care less about your op on this issue. thank you for not saying it..

[Balgas]

Whenever I make PT's I only make sure that they have the proper subjob and can actually pull their own weight. If you don't have super good equips, hey I'm fine with that. If you suck at your job, I'm not fine with that and I will never invite you to another PT again.

I discriminate only on a personal basis, not if you don't have good gear. =P

[GSDragoon]

I have to agree with the LFP thing. Advertising "above-average" gear really makes a difference.

Have you ever PTed with a SAM or DRK that doesnt have snipers? The difference is noticable >.> And now with Venerer<sp? Ring, alot of people use it with a sniper, which still works well, the 2 ACC there isnt noticable, the 8~10 all up just from the rings is though.

You also want to have fun. If you go into a party and whiff the whole time, your not going to be happy. On the other hand, if your doing great (aka. owning) your going to be in a great mood. A good example is when I was leveling SAM as a sub. It was fine untill In got into the lew 30's. My acc was terrable. It made the job not fun at all. So much that I stopped at 34. Since the last big patch, I managed to get a Venerer Ring cheap. It's lv34 so I decided to give SAM another try. The difference was HUGE. The job was much more fun to play and was enjoyable to level to 37.

About the elitism, it's quite funny at times. You hear stories about people rushing to lv75 to join an HNMLS and become "uber." The funny part is when they get lv75 and either quit the game or level another job because it's boring. It seems like everyone want's to be OMFG! I'm uber 1337!!!! but are dissapointed when they never reach that goal. This is also the reason why I see so many people level NIN or RNG now. They want to be a god. Deal the most dmg and be invincible. It seems like everyone is leveling NIN so they can solo, deal massive dmg, and never get hit. Makes them feel "uber."

confused NIN: "OMG Sheihi(sp?) is up to 10k a stack now!"
me: "Well, that's what happens when EVERYONE levels NIN"

[Yuanlung]

Heh, another side effect of everyone leveling NIN and RNG is you get all those crapola NIN's and RNG's running around.


Someone in my LS had the pleasure of inviting a lv 30 something NIN who did not have Utsusemi. I have partied with NIN's who only had tools for tonko and utsusemi, and nothing else (hyoton? what's that?). These charming folks can't even hold hate with THF doing fuidama on them. Their presistance to not get anything to help their dodge also made sure all their shadows drop before they get the spell timer back.



Oh yeah, godly indeed.


Now, am I being an elitest for wanting them to get the hell out of my party?

[UnnamedGalka]

Now, am I being an elitest for wanting them to get the hell out of my party?

Elitist? No. If someone plays his job completely wrong and hurts the PT, and you kick 'em, that's not being an elitist. You gave him a chance to prove his worth, and he failed.

An elitist is defined as someone who thinks that cookie-cutter characters are the only way to go, and automatically discriminates against players who have an "unconventional" race/job combo, just assuming that they will be terrible and refusing to give them a chance to prove whether they really are good or not.

[Silverquick]

Those cookie cutter race/classes quite frankly are the best, and to say otherwise is foolish.

Thats the misconception on the other side of the fence.

While any race can perform in a job given the right equipment, the frank truth is, those cookie cutter race/class job choices do perform the best.

I can soup up a Yugo and give it everything I can to make it go faster, and speedier, sleeker. And while It may even overcome the performance of the normal off the lot Ferrari, its still just a Yugo.

And souping up that Ferrari is going to make it that much better than the souped up Yugo.

While its possible to perform and even perform well with non-standard choices, you're still going to have performance issues at points and there's nothing you can do about it.

The Taru Drk dying constantly to Goblin Bombs comes to mind. Galka Mages having troubles sticking spells because they have to put on so much MP gear they have no space for Stat related gear.

Can they make it, and perform the job? Yeah.

But they are still going to have performance issues at points.

Those cookie cutter class/races? ... the only performance issues they're going to have are those related to just being a bad player.

[Anaki]

heh my gear sucks lvl 54 using mostly rse >.< the dex is nice o.O