Melee DD with the best end game.

[kuu]

When you and your wyvern are in the air during Super Jump, you avoide any damage. Can be handy if timed right. But only once every 5 minutes.

*cough* Cassie *cough*

Would need to sub whm, for erasing, curaging the pt, but it's better then everyone but the nin tank standing there.

I swear Cassie has the longest bad breath range I ever seen.

[Icemage]

I'd like to see a SAM/RNG manage to land a Sidewinder on any of the harder HNM. Sidewinder is pretty flaky accuracy-wise to start with, and none of the Gods or Kirin or <insert other top-tier HNM of your choice like Tiamat> has anything resembling low evasion.

Meikyo Shisui + Meditate on the really hard stuff as SAM/RNG = 3 wasted arrows and 300 wasted TP (I'll give the benefit of the doubt and say you might get one hit out of 4... and I think that's being generous).


Icemage

[Halato]

First, lets define HNM: I don't consider anything that can be easily destroyed by one party as an HNM. Serket, Roc, etc... They were HNMs when the level cap was 60. Now that it's 75, and heavy damagers have access to Utsusemi: Ni, I've seen people duo some pretty crazy stuff. It's not an HNM if a whm and a ranger can kill it... or a whm and a monk... or a solo ninja. (and yes, those combinations can take out Roc and Serket) Bloodtear used to be an "HNM" but any decent level 75 player can take him out solo.

#1 A monk, as an individual player/job, isn't an awe-inspiring site on an HNM. But (!) their strength lies in the fact that you only have 18 member slots in an alliance, and rotating 3 monks with Chi blast in and out will make that one SLOT (not player) the most damaging slot in your alliance, PLUS divide hate between 3 people. THAT is the monk's utility and strength against HNMs. Yes, I can melee them about as well or better than most jobs, but monk will always be better served as a chi-blast bitch... not giving TP, not enduring status ailments, and not requiring curing.

#2

SAM > MNK. sub RNG with Samurai, I can pull off 3 Sidewinders on any HNM.

I'm not going to bother with comparing monk and sam against HNMs... But what I will say is that if you are a 75 sam, and trying to deal heavy damage with sidewinder against serious HNMs, then you are just gimping yourself. Samurai TP gain really shines against mobs like the gods, and to blow it on sidewinders is just a mistake... Just sub thief and do it the more damaging and efficient way. DoT against gods will be better with bow, perhaps, but WS damage will suck for a samurai depending on sidewinder. I've seen RANGERS with Seiryu's Kote and Osode whiff a weaponskill on gods.

If you want to use 3 to 6 minutes worth of meditate on a weaponskill that has a chance of whiffing altogether, that's cool with me, but at least try thf sub first against those same mobs.

[Lanze]

Originally posted by Halato
First, lets define HNM: I don't consider anything that can be easily destroyed by one party as an HNM. Serket, Roc, etc... They were HNMs when the level cap was 60. Now that it's 75, and heavy damagers have access to Utsusemi: Ni, I've seen people duo some pretty crazy stuff. It's not an HNM if a whm and a ranger can kill it... or a whm and a monk... or a solo ninja. (and yes, those combinations can take out Roc and Serket) Bloodtear used to be an "HNM" but any decent level 75 player can take him out solo.

#1 A monk, as an individual player/job, isn't an awe-inspiring site on an HNM. But (!) their strength lies in the fact that you only have 18 member slots in an alliance, and rotating 3 monks with Chi blast in and out will make that one SLOT (not player) the most damaging slot in your alliance, PLUS divide hate between 3 people. THAT is the monk's utility and strength against HNMs. Yes, I can melee them about as well or better than most jobs, but monk will always be better served as a chi-blast bitch... not giving TP, not enduring status ailments, and not requiring curing.

#2


I'm not going to bother with comparing monk and sam against HNMs... But what I will say is that if you are a 75 sam, and trying to deal heavy damage with sidewinder against serious HNMs, then you are just gimping yourself. Samurai TP gain really shines against mobs like the gods, and to blow it on sidewinders is just a mistake... Just sub thief and do it the more damaging and efficient way. DoT against gods will be better with bow, perhaps, but WS damage will suck for a samurai depending on sidewinder. I've seen RANGERS with Seiryu's Kote and Osode whiff a weaponskill on gods.

If you want to use 3 to 6 minutes worth of meditate on a weaponskill that has a chance of whiffing altogether, that's cool with me, but at least try thf sub first against those same mobs.

lmao, hes banned. *yells at the dead*

But I agree, Sidewinder will suck against somethin like Kirin, or any god for that matter, sure its good around lvl 50-60s but after that Mnk turns into one of the best DD in the game. DRG still has the lead in damage but 70+ DRK 0wnZ DRG damage wise.:dead:

[kuu]

If the definition of HNM are Gods and dragons, then the best DD is moot.

Most effective way to fight them is heavy artillery of mages and perhaps rangers for ranged.

There should be minimal running around, except your pals.

I still consider the normal 6 pt take down HNM, because it's for 70-75s big or small.

Sure you can bumrush with a bunch of 60s, but it's like a fly speck to HNMLS who can just post 2 people to claim and 4 more to win.

They are still hard, because the requirements are strict.

[sudo]

don't us poor bst get a vote at all T.T

Our flamingos hit pretty consistantly for 60 -80 damage on the regular gods ~(;..;~)

Sure our Ws's suck. Sure we can't take a hit. Sure charm kiting doesn't work that well cause it doesn't make enough hate XD

sure pets are not around all the time, sure we're usually in the off pt handling adds and agro but any love for us poor bst's?

We're melee too! The hauberk says so!

[Ipwnzuall!!!111]

In regards to SAM/rng vs. God level mobs-- recently a SAM posted their experience with this in the SAM forums. I'm not going to dig up the link because quite frankly idc enough to do the searching for you, but if you're curious, it is there.

According to their experiences, SAM/rng was, as expected, not as useful as a RNG (no shit), but was no the missfest some of you seem to expect. Mind you this person mustered upwards of 80 RACC, and recieved ACC songs, and iirc ate sushi. That's plenty of ACC-- when combined with Sharpshot this allowed them to connect Sidewinders with respectable (by a RNG's standards) accuracy.

This is not the only testimony I've heard to what a SAM/rng is capable of vs. Gods, and I'm inclined to think it deserves a chance. It would be a better use of some alliance slots than some other jobs that usually get tossed into the mix when the ideal setup is not an option.

Before you jump to conclusions with, "OMG LOL LIEK SAMS?RNG WULD NEVER LAND AN ATTCK OR SIDEWINDER!!!111!one" I suggest you find someone who's willing to give it an HONEST and SINCERE effort and see for yourself. Many people "suppose" that SAMs Archery skill would be too low to land hits reasonably, but few ever see someone who really put the effort into give it a go.

Granted deaths can be an issue-- one SAM/rng said that his RNG buddies covered him by tossing out WSs after he used Sidewinder, thereby taking the hate from him. Seems like a doable fix, no?

And not that it will EVER HAPPEN, but if a SAM had the relic bow fully upgraded, I would take them in a heartbeat over the RNG, if for nothing else than pure coolness factor, to see the bow in action, and to "reward" someone for having that much dedication.

That said, even if your LS is stubborn and won't let you try SAM/rng even if you rally the gear you need, SAM/thf is a very respectable contribution to God fights in terms of damage. It will generate less overall damage than /rng, but it will also manage hate (when you get it right XD... I know, sometimes they don't sit still ) and the damage is nothing to scoff at.

If you're going SAM/war or SAM/nin... well, you might reconsider

[GSDragoon]

http://67.171.200.58/genbu.html

Lowone is the RNG, Kayoto is the SAM/RNG. This was against Genbu, and no BRD's.

[fuz]

100% accuracy? o_o

[GSDragoon]

They had misses filtered, so just ignore that part.

This is Kayoto's log: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~wa...1-22-2005.html

Looks like his and low's acc is correct.

[Faranim]

It depends ENTIRELY on what HNM you're fighting.

For something you kite, like Kirin or King Behemoth, RNG, BLM, MNK are your only damage sources.

For something you tank, like Aspidochelone, Fafnir, Nidhogg, or Tiamat, melee DD deals much more damage if done properly.

WAR/THF can SATA Steel Cyclone for well over 1000 damage on any HNM (Including Tiamat, Vrtra, Jormungand).

MNK/THF can SATA Dragon Kick with Boosts for over 700 damage.

MNK/WHM can Chi Blast for upwards of 1600 damage every 3 minutes.

SAM/THF can SATA Weaponskills for large amounts of damage.


IMO:

WAR/THF > SAM/THF > MNK/THF > THF for Melee SC Damage. I don't have any experience with DRGs or DRKs to comment on their level of damage.

MNK/WHM, RNG, and BLM all have various advantages and disadvantages, but overall they are about equal in terms of damage output.

Really it comes down to Skill + Gear. A Skilled SAM/THF who macros in +STR gear for WS can deal insane damage. A Skilled MNK/THF who can do Dragon Kick with 10-11 Boosts on along with +STR gear will also deal insane damage.

[Kayoto]

Originally posted by Faranim


WAR/THF > SAM/THF > MNK/THF > THF for Melee SC Damage.

Keep in mind that while a WAR/THF's weapon skills do more than a SAM/THF's, a SAM/THF can use SATA+WS a lot more frequently. =p

[Materia Hunter]

And no one's really mentioned DRKs. Le sighe. Oh well! hehe.

[Kailea]

I would say DRG...because anyone that gets DRG to 75 and is a good player should get tons of respect, and to me that is what I like. So for me DRG .....dont get me wrong I did not choose DRG just for this reason lol, I chose it because I loved Kain in FFIV and I loved the idea of being a DRG ^.^

[GSDragoon]

Originally posted by Kailea-D
I would say DRG...because anyone that gets DRG to 75 and is a good player should get tons of respect, and to me that is what I like. So for me DRG .....dont get me wrong I did not choose DRG just for this reason lol, I chose it because I loved Kain in FFIV and I loved the idea of being a DRG ^.^

I think it's safe to say that everyone who playes DRG really likes that job.