SURPRISINGLY effective DRAGOON

[CarbonFibre]

Yeah WHM sub is a really nice thing when you're doing things like skill up parties and such.

On a side note, what's the story on Wyvern magic bursts? Would DRG need to be closing a skillchain for this to even work? How often does DRG even close skilchain anyway? And you have to get lucky and have him use the correct element or does the thing know?

[CarbonFibre]

Yeah WHM sub is a really nice thing when you're doing things like skill up parties and such.

On a side note, what's the story on Wyvern magic bursts? Would DRG need to be closing a skillchain for this to even work? How often does DRG even close skilchain anyway? And you have to get lucky and have him use the correct element or does the thing know?

[Kailea]

you know what...the whole dealing less damge, I really think that some more research needs to be done on it. because the subjob really does not change the states by a really heavy margin. I might do some hardcore research and post my results later....but it will take me a bit and alot of writeing :p

yes I know there has been "research" on it alrealy but I dont think they tried very hard.

[Irinicus]

I can solve this right now, get a DRK, they much better. :p

[Redlimit]

Having WAR as a subjob for any melee job provides a phenominal boost to your damage output. Having Double Attack alone raises your damage by a lot, but you also get Berserk and an Attack Up trait to boot.

Supplement that with good growth in STR and DEX, and no other sub even comes close to comparing with WAR for pure damage output.

The power of Double Attack can not be overstated enough. When I first hit 50 MNK/WAR my damage output almost doubled immediately. On top of that, I also got Kick Attack at 51, which again provided a large boost to overall damage.

More attacks (of any kind, Doubles or Kicks or whatever) = more damage. Double Attack with slow delay weapons (scythe, greatsword, spear) means even more, as you can gain a lot of TP quickly, and your individual hits rack up some big numbers. Toss on the ability to use Berserk every 5 minutes and you get consistently high damage through big attacks, and lots of them.

[Silverquick]

Originally posted by csBahamut
The idea is to kill fast. Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. The faster the mob dies, the less damage the tank takes.

Now, if you have a crappy party, or just mages with bad MP management, or whatever else that requires you to need better survivability, the DRG/WHM might work. Just stay away from AoE mobs. The wyvern just has no chance, unless you want to sacrifise TP and EXP/hr. If you have good players, then you want to go with DRG/WAR. No other sub will allow DRG to kill faster than WAR sub. .

Your choice, do you need a crutch(WHM sub) or do you know what your doing(WAR sub)?

So then you're saying the Chain 4s and Chain 5s I saw were all in my imagination and we just had crappy mages and I sucked... and this Drg/Whm we had made up for it?

Wait... that means the Drg/Whm was actually pretty darn good idea...

But wait... didn't someone, and even you, say it was a crappy Idea and low powered?

And if this Drg/Whm was such a crappy Idea then...

Then... in your way of looking at things.. how did he single handedly take over for us... "crappy bad management mages" and the entire party... while we were doing chain 4s and a couple chain 5s?

Which we... in your opinion couldn't have been doing because there wouldn't be enough damage....

Or was it the Mages extra MP.... covering fo the crappy Drg/whm choice... errr ... which is it?

Obviously something was right here... and worked pretty darn good.

Because... no... Crappy MP mages... and a Crappy Drg/Whm choice togather do no Equal a 4-5 chain EXP group.

I have a better theory... maybe we both were pretty good and it worked out better than we thought.

And maybe, just maybe... I was as shocked as you are right now when I saw what I thought was... not possible.

EDIT:
I will say one thing though to your credit, The party configuration was not standard. There was no Whm, it was 2 Rdm/Blms handling healing and a Blm/Whm was the other mage. The Drg freed us up to Nuke and with Ice Staves we were nuking for about 250-280 twice outside MB, then MBing FireII on Light chains. The Damage output more than made up for Any lack of Warrior sub. Things dropped fast with all of us nuking. There was no Curega outside the Drg's Wyvern and spells... and the Blm didn't have to do it so had more mana for Nuking. That Drg/whm literally freed us all up to kill things very fast.

And converting Rdms helped I suppose since if anyone in the group is below half he just casts a minor spell and the Wyvern heals everyone again.

[GSDragoon]

Originally posted by CarbonFibre
Yeah WHM sub is a really nice thing when you're doing things like skill up parties and such.

On a side note, what's the story on Wyvern magic bursts? Would DRG need to be closing a skillchain for this to even work? How often does DRG even close skilchain anyway? And you have to get lucky and have him use the correct element or does the thing know?

Only got to try this once since the patch. We were fighting the 3 Skeletons for Sandy 6-2. Sice they were undead, I used staff to close a Fusion SC. With the AF helm your wyvern will use the breath the mobs are weak against. So, my wyvern MB'ed Flame Breath. It will actually say "Magic Burst: ..."

[csBahamut]

The party configuration was not standard.

Yeah, that's probably why it worked somewhat. Though, how long did you have to rest after those chain #4 and #5? The mages still had to spend the same MP, but they just got to use it towards damage rather than healing or support. Though, the BLM and RDM in my static *rarely* has to heal me, so they still get to nuke. If there was no AoE, our WHM would be nuking as well. In fact, he was MB'ing Holy on almost all the Light SC's when we leveled tonight. Having our DRG(Kainhighwind) sub WHM to heal would have been a waste. He would have gained TP slower, which would mean no SC on almost every mob(80-90% of what we exp on get's SC'ed). With him gaining slower TP and not being able to SC, then the mob would die slower. Thus requiring more healing from AoE and me being beat on. Your way seemed to have worked. That's good. Just pick your fights and party members right, or basically, design the party around DRG/WHM, and it should work decently. Stay away from AoE. The Wyvern will not survive. When the mob can deal 300-800 damage AoE's to it because it can't have a bar-spell, it will die. Pick mobs that are lower level. Since you'll need gear to make your Wyvern better, and have enough MP, you'll have to sacrifice some damage dealing gear. This could mean no +acc rings or other +acc equip. If you can't hit or deal more damage than the tank, then you're just a gimped WHM.

I should have been more clear about referring to standard exp parties. Not many players are willing to try non-standard parties, so it's best to go with standard subs and equipment. If you know people that don't mind trying something different, then go ahead. There's a way to get 6-7K exp/hr with an 8 player alliance. It's just not used because people are afraid to do something different.

[TheMidg]

Silverquick, your arrogance is ammusing To simply put it: A Dragoon is meant to put out damage and that is what it is best at doing.

[Silverquick]

Originally posted by TheMidg
Silverquick, your arrogance is ammusing To simply put it: A Dragoon is meant to put out damage and that is what it is best at doing.

What are you even flapping lip about?

Your whopping contribution to this thread is about two words long, and worth only half as much.

At least I can respect the others somewhat, because after the insults cool down and they start getting rational... at least they have an opinion worth hearing...

You're just a wannabe.

[TheMidg]

Originally posted by Silverquick
Your whopping contribution to this thread is about two words long, and worth only half as much.

I counted 26 :spin:

Originally posted by Silverquick
At least I can respect the others somewhat, because after the insults cool down and they start getting rational... at least they have an opinion worth hearing...

Please give me your respect. You are hurting my feelings

[GSDragoon]

Originally posted by Silverquick
At least I can respect the others somewhat, because after the insults cool down and they start getting rational... at least they have an opinion worth hearing...

My first post was almost entirely facts...

[Silverquick]

Originally posted by GSDragoon
My first post was almost entirely facts...

And my first response to you was also straight forward was it not?

Oh, by the way, to answer your question which I did not know the answer to before, I did eventually ask that Drg how he kept his Wyvern alive. According to him, he was dismissing it prior to the goblin bombs, and then would bring it back out.

While I don't doubt this must have been a huge gamble considering the circumstances as he explained to me, and the delicate conditions this could be done in. At least now I know how he made it last that long.

EDIT: Also, I do understand now especially after speaking with him again, that even though this was very successful in the group I was in, the average joe blow is just not going to be sharp enough to pull this combo off this good. I can definitely say it must have taken a lot of skill to do this right.

But I did learn how effective this really could be in the right hands and in the right circumstances.

[Stormos]

using ur af3 to make ur wyvern cure at 50% life does not mean u wont have optical hat when u are meleeing. Just put a equip macro with the dia macro. As long as you equip the AF3 before ur magic is cast, ur wyvern will still heal the ppl that's below 50% life.

There is also a effective way to use ur wyvern to heal. Just call it before you heal and dismiss right after or call it when the tank is having trouble and then do spirit link then dismiss after the mob is dead. ;x

This post doesnt mean that i would pick /whm over /war tho ;x. In exp situations /war is the only way to go. I havent touched DRG after they upped wheeling dmg so i dont know how good a /thf is but if the wheeling dmg is 400-500+ /thf might not be a bad option.

[Cali]

Yay finally someone not playing the 'by the book' combo!! I wish that DRG/WHM is on my server, if he/she is a nice person, I might even ask him/her to join

Not being sarcastic there, I have always been wondering what's the best combo for DRG, everyone know from day 1 that wyvern is divided into 3 types depended on subjobs... but no one would sub a mage or something not WAR or THF to DRG unless the invisible "rulebook" said so... then what's the defensive dragon for? O.o; I have yet to see a good dragoon on my server, and I haven't been playing for a while add to that... when I used to play, chat filter blocks everything pet/wyvern/avatars do, so I am never sure if the attack breath actually does damage(not that I can see from the monster's hp bar)... however, my friend did tell me once that she saw a DRG/mage, and the cure breath is actually quite helpful...

Anyway, this symbolize the revival of the Dragoon~