So my HNMLS was discussing Tonight...

[zorca]

As a bard you should alleviate your PT from any linked monster. Hopefully your lullabys will all stick, but if you're say. .. PTing off of aura statues, i don't care what your setup is, you will get resisted from time to time. So yes, even outside of BC situations you will find yourself taking hits more than any other mage except for maybe kamikaze BLMs. (75 BRD with osode)

Yes, a bard should alleviate your PT from any linked monsters, BUT how often do u get link at 75? if you xp on weapons those are mainly t-vts so landing lullaby isnt a problem. For the golems i'd have to say ur puller is being careless if u get constant linkage.

I know some pt do in fact pull another monster to camp and having the brd sleeping them before the current one is killed for high chains, in that case anything that helps u landing lullaby would help. Still, since such situation is very limited, I don't see why brd gets priority over other jobs like a mnk can benefits the +str +dex +mnk from it.

Also, once u're at 75, chances are u'll be spending a significant amount of time fighting HNMS and Gods, which I believe osode is pretty much useless in those situation.

[Nodachi]

Originally posted by zorca
Yes, a bard should alleviate your PT from any linked monsters, BUT how often do u get link at 75? if you xp on weapons those are mainly t-vts so landing lullaby isnt a problem. For the golems i'd have to say ur puller is being careless if u get constant linkage.

I know some pt do in fact pull another monster to camp and having the brd sleeping them before the current one is killed for high chains, in that case anything that helps u landing lullaby would help. Still, since such situation is very limited, I don't see why brd gets priority over other jobs like a mnk can benefits the +str +dex +mnk from it.

Also, once u're at 75, chances are u'll be spending a significant amount of time fighting HNMS and Gods, which I believe osode is pretty much useless in those situation.

Right, well i'm use to crazy ranger or monk setups and chaining 16-18, both setups require me to pull in order to get these chains. During this i catch a barrage of random AOEs from weapons, JAs from skeletons and so on.

And Demetrios. I'm well aware of the amount of enmity - you can receive from Merits, however a BRD really shouldn't be concerned with enmity much except for maybe when you fight Faf/hog. Even then if you go as SMN sub enmity won't be your problem, but as whm, tossing curagas left and right will earn you some hate.

Yes, i'm a stat whore. To address golems, my PT always PTs in the center for quicker chains. Unfortunately no matter the skill level of our players, random magic will aggro random pops.

Lastly i don't know why everyone thinks MNK with osode aids the LS like they think it would. Thinking the STR and DEX is helping them do raw damage. Have you guys seen your monks melee any of the gods? All i see them do is chi-blast. The bits on Osode that actually help MNK in NM situation are mainly just MND, the MP if they sub whm, and i suppose the VIT.

I respect your posts Zorca and Demetrios, you showed actual knowledge and experience on this before posting.

[ganhosi]

For me there is nothing better.. the +10 str helps with SATA when I /thf. the +10 chr is good for brds, +10 agi good for rng.
It all depends
For a 75 Sam, you should have a +str gear swap macro anyways

[coolffxi]

well 90% of the people who i see osode on are rng.. i have talked to may hnm ls on my server... usualy the rng gets it...not always. i have been seeing sam take a huge likeing to the cursed armor. so i would go rng> everything else
<<<rng lol

[Kite322]

My opinion:

RNG/MNK > BRD > WAR/SAM > BST

Of course it comes down to attendance and participation/attitude as well, a BRD that shows up 50% more than a RNG should get it first.

[Halato]

The reason it's so useful for monk:

The best mind gear that most monks can get in the body slot is 3, Osode has 10! That's no joke, that's a huge boost to mind, their main damage stat against gods and other HNMs.

Regarding Melee:

Monks best weaponskills, asuran and dragon kick, are both greatly modified by STR and VIT. Osode would offer +6 STR than any body slot gear and +6 VIT. We can't get those stats together otherwise, anyway.

Another huge benefit is the pure STR. STR effects monks differently than most jobs due to their fast attack rate and weird mechanics of H2H damage.

Dex/Agi have their own applications. DEF is nice on a monk as well.

EDIT:
And by the way... the reason to give a bard the Osode isn't because it's the most effective piece of gear for them... It's because they slave away the same as everyone else in Sky, and deserve the chance to get the uber armor they are rightfully allowed to wear.

The only ranger I know that has/used the Osode says he really can't notice a huge difference, but really likes wearing it^^.

The only other point to stress here... Monks buy an entirely new suit of armor and jewelry to fight gods/HNMs. We have no other application for mind stat, so there's nothing wrong with giving them some armor that increases that stat more than anything they can buy/quest/camp. Monks put a lot of work into maxing mind stat... so return the favor a little. Do you think I *LIKE* leveling whm to 37 as a galka for 5 meesly points of mind?!

[GASGUL]

RDM>...... then who cares,

no im not biased,

:angel:

[ibroyles]

Originally posted by Halato
Do you think I *LIKE* leveling whm to 37 as a galka for 5 meesly points of mind?!

lol

Originally posted by GASGUL
RDM>...... then who cares,

no im not biased,

btw RDM can't equip

[Faranim]

Multiple Things:

As Far as which job "Benefits" the most from Osode. I'd definately have to say:

RNG > MNK > Other Melee > BRD

Yes, I'm a BRD. Yes, I have an Osode. And Yes, BRD benefits the least from it. Key word here is least. There's obviously benefits for BRD (such as higher DEF/VIT, +30 MP, and more STR), but compared to the benefits a melee job gets, BRD really doesn't gain much from an Ososde when compared to Errant. Heck, I still use Errant on many Gods / HNM because of the -Enmity and +hMP.

RNG benefits the most because of the damage modifiers on Sidewinder/SlugShot. Most 75 RNG without an Ososde will wear their AF, which to my knowledge doesn't add any +Stats. Osode will increase WS damage signifcantly.

MNK second because of the massive +MND, and when a MNK melee's they beneft from the STR DEX and VIT also.

Other Melee (SAM, BST, NIN, WAR) get grouped together because most of them have alternate level 75 gear that is still pretty decent, and giving Osode only provides marginally better performance.


Now, as far as who should actually get it? It depends a lot on your Linkshell Policy.

For our HNMLS, Each member is only allowed *one* significant body armor. Significant meaning Noble's Tunic, Body Abjuration, and Osode. The only time a member can get more than one of these is if (for example), a body abjuration drops and there's nobody else but you who can actually equip/use it. If a Body abjuration drops and multiple people can use it, the people who don't yet have any body armor take priority.

For Body Abjurations it's mostly:
A. Look at who's there to lot on it
B. Look at who can use it / who needs it
C. Decide who gets it (this is usually very simple since A and B will typically narrow you down to 1-3 people).

Because Osode is Tradeable, we base it on:
#1. How long the player has been in the linkshell. Even if we have EXTRA Osode, we won't give them out until a player has proven that they want to be in our LS and have contributed to it.
#2. How often the player attends Water Hunts, Trigger Runs, God Runs, Kirin Fights. Players who have been in the linkshell a long time but hardly ever go to sky won't be getting an Osode for a while. Members who make an effort to attend sky runs will be rewarded with an Osode sooner.
#3. If for some reason there's multiple people who become "Eligable" for an Osode at the same time, their Job will determine who gets it.

IMO Dedication to a HNMLS is the most important thing you can have from a member. Giving all of your Osode to RNG just because it's "best" for them is a bad idea. You'll likely get a lot of Senior non-RNG who complain about not getting Osode.

And I'm sure that newer members wouldn't mind seeing Ososde go to a more dedicated / deserving member, even if their job benefits less from it.

Hell, I was given Byakko Haidate and Suzaku Sune-Ate for my BRD when there were other jobs (NIN/RNG for Haidate, MNK for Sune-Ate) who didn't have it yet, but I still had priority. Nobody complained, it's just how we run things.

Point Systems are bound to eventually fail, because they are used as a measure to counter-act greed and item-whoring. Don't invite Greedy people into the Linkshell, and distributing items becomes much easier.

[GASGUL]

i feel so so cheated ><;

hmmmm maybe i can have my manequin wear it,

[Discordian]

We've discussed about the Osode in my LS and we've made it a priority to give it to those deserving despite job. If you can wear it you will be considered, numerical need on how cool it makes your job is removed. We did this because bards get very little out of endgame but get yanked around for getting others items all the time, its basicly standing up for whats right.

[Lily]

Originally posted by zorca
Yes, a bard should alleviate your PT from any linked monsters, BUT how often do u get link at 75?

Hehe, if your ls is doing Dynamis 2 times a week, and generally the bards are the first to die (along with the blms), then its uses may be more apparent.

It benefits bst quite a bit, but I dunno, the fact of the matter is, in actually engaging stuff like Kirin, jobs like rng, mnk with chi blast, nin and brd are doing most of the work day in, day out. So they see more use out of it.

But yeah on the rare occasions when your ls is in mob territory like Sorrow Valley for Aspi, Haku hunts, or Fafnir camping, the extra chr helps on landing charms consistently, in case of aggro or whatever. Oh and Fira, I'm pretty sure the Millioneyes can range from DC through EM to T. Not just DC and EM. ;x

As for Kirin, you won't get any tp if you hit for 0 dmg, which I see a lot. I believe the str helps out with this problem, in terms of breaching his defense. Plus throw in the higher dex, and you see more returns on your criticals versus normal mobs.

[Serif]

Originally posted by zorca
As a good BRD, u shouldnt get hit periodically lol. By the time u're eligible for the osode, u'll probably doing HNMs and Gods most of the time. A good brd should never pull hate when fighting those, so I hope u only referred to BCNM battles. But then, many BCs have a lv requirement, so u can't even use osode for those cases.

Yes, different LSes have different ways to distribute drops and that's certainly fine. I just don't understand why some people think brds do get priority over other jobs when it comes to the benefitis of the osode.

The only main benefit that BRDs get from Osode on HNMs that I have seen are Fafnir/Nidhogg. It also depends on your PT setup. BRDs do get a lot of hate at Fafnir/Nidhogg, seeing how you are either Garuda/Ballad 1+2/Various Etudes/Prelude 1 + 2/Curing/Etc.,/Elegy/Threnody.

It doesn't seem like a lot, but when done over and over hate tends to build up quite fast. And then -Enmity doesn't really help. I would much rather prefer +10 VIT and +10 AGI from these 2 times. Accompanied with my Terra Staff and Genbu's Kabuto that is +30 VIT and +10 AGI. Which is very helpful for a Tarutaru. Also if you are very active in a Kirin fight, sometimes you can possibly get hate, which is like 1% of the times I have fought him. Oh yeah Tiamat is the same way. But most people don't fight him.

[LionhartPLD]

mnk>rng>nin>war>brd>bst

[Discordian]

Originally posted by LionhartPLD
mnk>rng>nin>war>brd>bst

This equates to
Already got stuff > Also already got stuff > Had stuff before previous person > wants adaman body for his collection > Is waiting for god armor to be free lot so that he can get it within the next year > Hopes that war gets adaman body soon so that he can get it.

There's a difference in utility and fair and many jobs get a lot before bard even gets a taste yet people rely on bards to help them get what they want. You can kill anything in the game with your AF1 set of armor look at a lot of Paladins and whitemages, yes abjuration and crafted stuff is good but in no need required.