So my HNMLS was discussing Tonight...

[ganhosi]

the osode is a status symbol, people wear it in towns and take it off for fights mostly.
stats wise its not all that great, scorpion harness, most cursed gear owns it
In my HNMLS we distribute the loot with a point system, personally I think rng's would most benefit from it, since they cant wear SH or haubergeon/hauberauk etc...

[sudo]

depending on the area a bst actually will need the +10 chr quite a bit.

For the optical hat mob room, a bst needs to charm VT hecteyes constantly or use their 2hr ability to actually contribute to link control.

The 10 chr actually will help a lot. But yes, for situations where bst is used as a DD with other jobs mixed in, the gear probably benefit mnk or rng more since bst can wear haubruk.

If you want to use bst fore agro and add control 10 chr goes a long way espically if you have to recharm. There's not much else better a bst can wear in the body slot for charming. Blows the af body and JSE body out of the water for chr.

A bst can't use errant so if it was down to bst and brd I think the bst needs it more. Also for everyday exp solo use say for merit points, a bst has a much greater need for chr than a brd. Failed charm = death at higher lvs. Even one failed charm can instantly kill you within 10 seconds.

A brd in pt even if with higher resistance to their songs vs exp mobs can always just try again. It's not life or death if elegy lands. It helps a ton but it's not instant death for the brd or tank.

[CarbonFibre]

Originally posted by sudo
depending on the area a bst actually will need the +10 chr quite a bit.

For the optical hat mob room, a bst needs to charm VT hecteyes constantly or use their 2hr ability to actually contribute to link control.

The 10 chr actually will help a lot. But yes, for situations where bst is used as a DD with other jobs mixed in, the gear probably benefit mnk or rng more since bst can wear haubruk.

If you want to use bst fore agro and add control 10 chr goes a long way espically if you have to recharm. There's not much else better a bst can wear in the body slot for charming. Blows the af body and JSE body out of the water for chr.

A bst can't use errant so if it was down to bst and brd I think the bst needs it more. Also for everyday exp solo use say for merit points, a bst has a much greater need for chr than a brd. Failed charm = death at higher lvs. Even one failed charm can instantly kill you within 10 seconds.

A brd in pt even if with higher resistance to their songs vs exp mobs can always just try again. It's not life or death if elegy lands. It helps a ton but it's not instant death for the brd or tank.

This sounds pretty good. Also keep in mind that BST can melee as well, so that STR and DEX + will help in that area as well.

[Fire]

Originally posted by sudo
For the optical hat mob room, a bst needs to charm VT hecteyes constantly or use their 2hr ability to actually contribute to link control.

At Lv75 (req for Osode) the hecteyes are only decent challenge - even match so thats pretty untrue, and yes I know you were just using it as an example

[Nodachi]

Originally posted by ZQM
It's the most useful for MNK, they take the most benefits out of it's stats.

BRD it's not really useful for. Errant has the same +mages stats except for the MP, AND it has -emnity.

NIN it's really useful for, since Scorpion Harness isn't that good at 75. High DEF, AGI, and VIT is very useful for tanking HNM.

RNG it's decent for, expecially for WS.

SAM it's only useful for on WS.

WAR it's useful for WS, and when def-tanking a mob where you don't want the -STR -DEX from Koeing.

BST mostly only useful for WS. Good for charm also, however it should be given out to classes on reason that help out the LS, and a BST almost always uses a jug.

So I'd say MNK > NIN > RNG > BRD > WAR > BST > SAM.

I stopped paying attention to anything you had to say once you said only good for sam during WS and Errant is close to same quality for BRD.

You. Have. No. Idea. How. Much. It. helps. Those. Two. Jobs.

ANYONE who claims Haubergeon +1 is better than Osode for SAM either doesn't want a SAM to get an osode, or simply hasn't tried it themself/seen it. Errant? WTF? Errant is trash, yeah it has +10 CHR, but as a good BRD, you're gona get hit periodically and the -10 agi, -10 vit get you absolutely destroyed. Stats going for BRD on the Osode: 10 CHR sure, 50 light elemental (you'd be suprised). +10 MND, +10 VIT/AGI (incredible for BC situations or when shit hits the fan in EXP situations). And the bit everyone seems to forget, the 30 MP. Now i know MNKs, NINs, and even RNG desire MP and all but... yeah. Errant should only be used for recovering MP imo. I'd rather use minstrel coat over Errant in nearlya ll situations. You should have enough petty +CHR from other equips to even need it from Errant.

I agree that MNK NIN RNG are all good canidates though. Our LS divided BRD and RNG with top priority, however a MNK and NIN have received one as well. BRD/RNG/NIN all kind of a toss up for priority in aiding the LS. It's incredible for MNK, WAR and BST as well but unfortunately they just don't contribute as much as the previous jobs. Well WAR does, but they can rock Adaman Hauberk.

[Nodachi]

Originally posted by zorca
For +10chr u can get that from Earrant body.... the 30mana is nice to have, but it's definitely not that useful compare to the other stats like +10str to melee jobs imo. It is true that brd rarely gets cool stuff from HNM/gods, relatively speaking ; )

Every JP HNM LS funded BRD the Osode first >.>

[ZQM]

You seem to misunderstand. I was talking on pure end-game material, and pure benefitial to the LS. It should go to the jobs that benefit the LS more, not to what job it benefits more.

Originally posted by Nodachi
ANYONE who claims Haubergeon +1 is better than Osode for SAM either doesn't want a SAM to get an osode, or simply hasn't tried it themself/seen it.

And what exactly does Osode going to offer over Haub+1? Please tell me how 4 DEX and 4 STR are going to be better then 12 ATK and 12 ACC when you're fighting something that everybody has trouble hitting. Also, all the important SAM WS modifiers are STR, so the other +stats aren't going to be helpful.

Errant? WTF? Errant is trash, yeah it has +10 CHR, but as a good BRD, you're gona get hit periodically and the -10 agi, -10 vit get you absolutely destroyed. Stats going for BRD on the Osode: 10 CHR sure, 50 light elemental (you'd be suprised). +10 MND, +10 VIT/AGI (incredible for BC situations or when shit hits the fan in EXP situations). And the bit everyone seems to forget, the 30 MP. Now i know MNKs, NINs, and even RNG desire MP and all but... yeah. Errant should only be used for recovering MP imo. I'd rather use minstrel coat over Errant in nearlya ll situations. You should have enough petty +CHR from other equips to even need it from Errant.

Again, it should be going to a class for reasons of LS gain, not self gain. All of the points you brought up our for self-gain. BRDs to get a lot of hate in events, and that's where the -Enmity would be beneifital; +AGI and +10 VIT isn't going to help you much in a situation when you pull hate then.

However, the BRD in my LS has been landing more debuffs and they have been lasting longer ever since he got Osode, so it is supperior to Errant.

[tnt118]

My opinion has always been that while Bards maybe shouldn't be choice #1 for who recieves the Osode, they should be on a *very* short list of those who do get it.

[Nodachi]

Have you not began to notice yet that around level 69 or so +attack doesn't seem to effect your damage output much? I dare you at 75 to just take your haubergeon off completely and tell me the damage difference. Acc is still nice, i'll give you that, but optical + snipers is more than what you should really need. I mean, you can't expect to always land hits on Kirin, it should just be expected that you'll miss a lot regardless of equips.

In end game i'll take +STR over attack anyday. Keep maybe amemit +1 on for some +attack but +STR helps your regular attacks and WS so much more than the petty +attack from equips.

You act as though +4 STR and +4 DEX is petty at that level, but when you've already maxed it out in every other equip or through merits, any additional + you can get that others may not have (such as from osode) is priceless and will tack on that much more damage or even up that much more of a chance for a critical attack. These stats are also going to contribute more to your SATA'd WSs you may be doing as /thf much more than +ATK or ACC will do, and that aids your LS tremendously.

Sam have great evasion going for them, but unfortunatly through the standard "Good equips" such as haubergeon, the - evasion dampers it. With Osode, not only do you ditch the - EVA, you gain the +10 AGI, helping cut down on times you get hit and or receive critical hits.

Quick note on errant, if enmity is really your problem, just cap out -enmity in merits and that should be plenty for most scenarios.

[ZQM]

Again, your bringing up either points for self gain instead of LS gain or not endgame material.

Originally posted by Nodachi
You act as though +4 STR and +4 DEX is petty at that level

Hitting once more then makes up for 4 STR, and 12 acc will make you hit more than once. You said yourself that you you'll miss a lot regardless of equips. The added damage on normal hits of 4 STR doesn't mean anything if you can't the mob. And yes, adding 12 ACC does make a huge difference. If I take of snipers/haub/whatever, I notice a big dip in accuracy (and this is coming from a class with a +accuracy move).

These stats are also going to contribute more to your SATA'd WSs you may be doing as /thf much more than +ATK or ACC will do, and that aids your LS tremendously.

I stated (twice infact) that it's use was for WS.



So you would honestly use Osode when fighting Nidhog/Kirin/whatever over Haub+1 when buildling TP?

[zorca]

but as a good BRD, you're gona get hit periodically and the -10 agi, -10 vit get you absolutely destroyed.

As a good BRD, u shouldnt get hit periodically lol. By the time u're eligible for the osode, u'll probably doing HNMs and Gods most of the time. A good brd should never pull hate when fighting those, so I hope u only referred to BCNM battles. But then, many BCs have a lv requirement, so u can't even use osode for those cases.

Yes, different LSes have different ways to distribute drops and that's certainly fine. I just don't understand why some people think brds do get priority over other jobs when it comes to the benefitis of the osode.

[Sasuke]

MNK > BRD > BST > RNG

A MNK benefits more from osode battle wise IMO inc MND VIT STR DEX.
To top it off 3 of the 4 god armor MNK hands down puts them to more use.
RNG get Kote even without it they do great.
BRD BST well the CHR alone is too good to pass and the +30mp a nice touch.

Am not interested in adaman hauberk nor do it think I will get it over other 6+ melee

[Nodachi]

Originally posted by zorca
As a good BRD, u shouldnt get hit periodically lol. By the time u're eligible for the osode, u'll probably doing HNMs and Gods most of the time. A good brd should never pull hate when fighting those, so I hope u only referred to BCNM battles. But then, many BCs have a lv requirement, so u can't even use osode for those cases.

Yes, different LSes have different ways to distribute drops and that's certainly fine. I just don't understand why some people think brds do get priority over other jobs when it comes to the benefitis of the osode.

As a bard you should alleviate your PT from any linked monster. Hopefully your lullabys will all stick, but if you're say. .. PTing off of aura statues, i don't care what your setup is, you will get resisted from time to time. So yes, even outside of BC situations you will find yourself taking hits more than any other mage except for maybe kamikaze BLMs. (75 BRD with osode)

[Nodachi]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ZQM

Again, your bringing up either points for self gain instead of LS gain or not endgame material.

Please explain to me what your thought of LS gain is?

Hitting once more then makes up for 4 STR, and 12 acc will make you hit more than once. You said yourself that you you'll miss a lot regardless of equips. The added damage on normal hits of 4 STR doesn't mean anything if you can't the mob. And yes, adding 12 ACC does make a huge difference. If I take of snipers/haub/whatever, I notice a big dip in accuracy (and this is coming from a class with a +accuracy move).

At 75 i would chose the larger amounts of DEX over the ACC from Haubergeon +1, yes.

I stated (twice infact) that it's use was for WS.

Right, that's wonderful. Now realize I'm not saying it will only help with WS, but helps with your WS as well as your entire play.

So you would honestly use Osode when fighting Nidhog/Kirin/whatever over Haub+1 when buildling TP?

Yes. There's also an importance to doing the most damage possible per swing on NMs. There's a reason why 2 handed weapons are nice against NMs and that's damage per TP given. Take a THF and say a DRK who land every single hit they swing. Let's even pretend that over the same amount of time they do the exact same damage. That DRK is going to be more useful due to the fact they gave less TP to the monster than the thief. TP gain is great, but it can cost you as well if your regular damage isn't so hot.

Ask to borrow an Osode from your LS, or be fortunate enough to get the Abj. for Adaman Hauberk and run some tests. I'm not out here to go against people to make them look like a fool or start needless flames, just tired of people missunderstanding a lot of how stats shift in this game.

[Demetrios]

Errant? WTF? Errant is trash, yeah it has +10 CHR, but as a good BRD, you're gona get hit periodically and the -10 agi, -10 vit get you absolutely destroyed. Stats going for BRD on the Osode: 10 CHR sure, 50 light elemental (you'd be suprised). +10 MND, +10 VIT/AGI (incredible for BC situations or when shit hits the fan in EXP situations). And the bit everyone seems to forget, the 30 MP. Now i know MNKs, NINs, and even RNG desire MP and all but... yeah. Errant should only be used for recovering MP imo. I'd rather use minstrel coat over Errant in nearlya ll situations. You should have enough petty +CHR from other equips to even need it from Errant.

You are too much fo a stat whore IMO. Just because it says +10 VIT or +10 AGI does not mean it will have an effect on tanking. Unless you are entirely pumping VIT, defense, and singing Minne 24/7, a bard will never take a hit well. +50 Light resistance... helps bard take Banishga 3 from Byakko, which shoudln't even be going off in the first place if your stun order is working.

NIN does make use of the MP if you're creative. Know what the stats are on the Cassie Earring? Converts 50 MP to HP. Wearing the Osode plus that earring is another 30 HP.

Quick note on errant, if enmity is really your problem, just cap out -enmity in merits and that should be plenty for most scenarios.

You know you can only get -2 enmity or +2 enmity from merit points... that is hardly anything close to the errant body.