Weapon Skill Data, Formulae, and Testing

[Apple Pie]

As you see both blue and red line start to run horizontally when ATK/DEF ratio =>1.8, the ratio is capped at 1.8. No matter how many ATK points are further added, PDIF remains the same (from 1.5 to 2.4, actually it is 1.6 - 2.4. I need to fix the chart).

[Rico]

Wait... Apple Pie your back?! I'm soo happy to see a post from you!

[tsp]

uhh first i want to say very nice job allof here

than i have some questions

as me presonally i tried to search for STR cap and etc etc ... and i never trust things i dont try i compared that DMG formula and it looks 100% correct at least for Weapon DMG itself it looks exactly 100%

so i tried to do some calc for WS dmg for myself and as im THF i have two basic questions

a) multi-hit WS hits ... after seeing Apple Pies answer on Steel Cyclone and Double Attack proc ... i taking that as that all multiple WS are working same way

Yes, it is.

In case of WAR75/THF15+ arming Berserker's Axe with 100 STR/VIT (for easier calculation although you seem to have more) when both fSTR and PDIF are capped, the highest damage expected of Steel Cyclone at 300% TP with SA should be:

(95 + int (95 / 9) + 8 + int (50 + 50) * 0.83) * 3.0 * 3.0 = 1,764

When DA kicks in,

First Attack: (95 + int (95 / 9) + 8 + int (50 + 50) * 0.83) * 3.0 * 3.0 = 1,764
Second Attack: (95 + int (95 / 9) + 8 + int (50 + 50) * 0.83) * 2.4 * 1.0 = 470
Total: 1,764 + 470 = 2,234

So, it's not 1,764 + 1,764. fTP for DA (2nd attack) and DW (Offhand) is always 1.00 no matter how much TP we have.

so FIRST one hit will have fTP 2x (SHARK BITE 100% 2x)
and SECOND will have fTP 1x only ?

or its only for situation when in multiple WS will Double or Tripple attack occur ?

so mutliple WS with TP modifikator has their

and SECOND and all other will have fTP dependand on TP ?

....

and second question i have about SNEAK ATTACK, TRICK ATTACK and stacking with this formule

will SA = DEX DMG modifikator stack into (D + fSTR + WSC) ?

D = weapon dmg + dexterity for SNEAK ATTACK
D = weapon dmg + agilitiy for TRICK ATTACK
D = weapon dmg + dex + agi for SATA

so first hit of THF WS will land always with D and fSTR counted as WEAOPN DMG + DEX + AGI ?

other than normally with classical D

or SA(TA) SATA will be completely added to this after whole WS calculation + SATA DMG ?

...

i tried in excel to do this calculation and accordingy my highest SATA+WS dmgs it looks like like both ways can get me the max numbers i ever acquired ... but if D + DEX + AGI stack = i can according to this boost my STR more to get higher fSTR as im atm concerning qute a lot how much STR can help and when it can be capped


....

personally according this calculator and my excelt with

dagger 27 dmg 100 DEX (50% SB) fTP 2x

first hit with fTP 2x, pdif 2,4 = 386,1 DMG
second hit with fTP 1x, pdif 2,4 = 190,8
togather: 572,4

withotu SA(TA) SATA => this numbers looks realistic according my few day test of WS and STR afffecting DMG

if fTP for second will be 2x that would add next 190 DMG overall about 800 and i never hited solo SB for 800 DMG

in that case that fTP is going only for FIRST HIT of multiple hit WS ... the weapon DMG especially for THF is much higher factor than adding DEX etc etc

PS: pls excue my english

[ZQM]

Originally posted by tsp
so FIRST one hit will have fTP 2x (SHARK BITE 100% 2x)
and SECOND will have fTP 1x only ?

or its only for situation when in multiple WS will Double or Tripple attack occur ?

so mutliple WS with TP modifikator has their

and SECOND and all other will have fTP dependand on TP ?

Posted by Apple Pie on the second page

In my experience with the DRK multi-hit weapon skills, the 1st hit is usally 2-3x more powerful than all of the rest. So if you hit a one-hit sickle moon where the first hit lands, it may do 300-400 dmg, and a one-hit where the second hit lands, it'll be 90-125.

That's correct and in fact, the author (Studio Gobli) speculates fTP for the 2nd and later hit is x1.00.

So yes, it's speculated that every hit after the first hit has a 1.0 fTP no matter the WS or TP.

I haven't researched on THF though so can't answer your second question.

[tsp]

So yes, it's speculated that every hit after the first hit has a 1.0 fTP no matter the WS or TP.

aah im sorry and ty i know it was there if i see it now i remember ... but meanwhile u answered i edited post with my numbers and it looks like really thatn for all other there is 1.0 fTP

but still SATA part adding dmg is interesting me much ...

WD = (D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP + DEX + AGI

ok i found this too on first site added to calculator and it looks too realistics ...


now my last question are

a/ how we can determina min DMG ?

b/ when in at STR CAP ... i know that more STR will not boost my STR MAX but will it boost my minimal DMG up?

c/ ATTACK how much is ATT worth it .... is ATT which will change "toughnes" high defense > defense > low deefnse enough or each +ATT counts ?

[VZX]

some people in ranger forum (at least what I've seen most in KI) about the STR cap issue in some rangers bow post 70 (shigeto, master caster's, gendawa)

A little bit off topic though from WS...
From what've read. shigeto bow has strange cap in it so that even in damage per shot. It'll just blown away by master caster's damage per shot.

Next is Gendawa (+1)'s Sidewinder that has been reported considerably higher than Master caster's even though it has lower / the same base damage as master caster's

do you have a further explanation about this Grendal?

[ZQM]

Meant to post this early but kept forgetting+too lazy.

http://pamama.hp.infoseek.co.jp/FF11...-03-10-31.html

(If you don't have JP fonts installed the chart will probably look funky).

That chart shows how much fSTR you'll have depending on your STR over the mobs VIT and the DMG of your weapon. It's not on a 1:1 STR-VIT ratio to raise fSTR, it's more like 4:1.

[VZX]

hmm
someone care to give example to explain the chart?

[ZQM]

http://www.pplsdbz.net/~zquestionmark/ffxi/fstr.JPG

So if you use a DMG:36 weapon and your STR is 5 times over the mobs VIT, fSTR is 3.

Chart was sent to me by aurikan at KI (Who in turn got it from Apple Pie).

[VZX]

and..

So if you use a DMG:36 weapon and your STR is 5 times over the mobs VIT, fSTR is 3.

if I use DMG:4 weapon my fSTR will be 2?

hmmm the graph is not clear enough mentioning at what point of D the floor start stepping up

but in conclusion can I say : when then your STR VIT difference w/ mob is pretty low (negative number to small positive number), higher D weapon can get higher fSTR value more easily

?

and for ranged weapon is this D just the ranged weapon only or ranged + ammo?

[Furysword]

Re: Weapon Skill Data, Formulae, and Testing

your STR is 5 times over the mobs VIT

I assume you meant +5 greater and not 5 times greater here, correct?

if I use DMG:4 weapon my fSTR will be 2?

Yes, that's how I read the chart. Having 5 more str than the mob's vit with a DMG: 4 weapon gives you fSTR 5.

hmmm the graph is not clear enough mentioning at what point of D the floor start stepping up

From what I can gather from the pic of the chart (don't have JP fonts installed, so the original chart isn't properly formatted), it jumps every 9 DMG (except for DMG: 1~8).

[Macht]

Re: Weapon Skill Data, Formulae, and Testing

Moved the thread to were it made a little more sense since the original post was about WSs in general not to Paladins only.

[bleegh]

Re: Weapon Skill Data, Formulae, and Testing

Given that many people come to this thread for their WS data needs, I thought it might be worth pointing out that the chart in the first 2 posts are a bit out of date. Looking here - http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Part/6371/memo.html - it seems there's been quite a bit of changes.

If there's interest, I'll try my hand at translating changes - but for now, just mentioning it.

[Sidra]

Re: Weapon Skill Data, Formulae, and Testing

I have a question about multi hit weapon skills, such as pentathrust that can have an ftp under 1. For the 2nd thru 5th hits, would they use ftp as .75 as opposed to 1?

[Valyana]

Re: Weapon Skill Data, Formulae, and Testing

I have a question about multi hit weapon skills, such as pentathrust that can have an ftp under 1. For the 2nd thru 5th hits, would they use ftp as .75 as opposed to 1?

For Rampage at least, it seems that later hits use fTP of 1. If all 5 hits were half-strength, it ought to usually do less damage than Decimation with three full-strength hits, especially since it has a lower STR modifier than Decimation. In fact Rampage damage seems pretty consistent with the formula if you think of it as 4.5 full strength hits rather than 2.5.