Weapon Skill Data, Formulae, and Testing

[imac2much]

For those of you who are interested in exhaustive testing and analysis, Apple Pie directed me to a great Japanese website that lists the results of several years of testing concerning Weapon Skill damage. Keep in mind much of this is still in development, and there are still some unknown factors, but this may clear up some misconceptions players may have. Also, due to the difficult nature of testing WS with several hits, many of the high-hit WS’ damage modifiers are still unknown at this time.

http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Part/6371/memo.html

Here is what I have translated so far of this site. Many thanks to Apple Pie for translating several of the formulae for me and explaining some of the other intricacies of the calculations. There are still a few formulae that I have not successfully fully translated yet, such as the cap of damage if WS criticals, or added damage with Sneak Attack. Note that there are a few added notes on the JP site that include very minute corrections on the formulae, but they do not affect the basic damage equation very much.

I also changed some incorrect data in this site (for certain weapons that were not tested extensively such as Katana and Great Katana). Plus, I included how additional TP affects certain WS that have a set damage modifier (accuracy up, crit rate higher, etc).

Due to the crappy spacing and format issues in this post (it doesn't seem to recognize tabs), I have attached a .txt file that should have a proper and more readable format.

Magic WS Damage Calculation:
WSC : Secondary attribute modifier
fINT : difference between your INT and target’s INT (caps at 24)
fTP : Multiplier (Please see chart below)
MDIF : (your MATK/target’s MDEF)
ELM : Elemental influence... i.e. is target weak or strong to the element?

Damage = ((WSC * fTP) + fINT/2 + 8) * MDIF * ELM

Magic Chart : fTP multiplier
Burning Blade 1.00 2.00 2.50 Fire STR_20%, INT_20%
Red Lotus Blade 1.00 2.375 3.00 Fire STR_30%, INT_20%
Frostbite 1.00 2.00 2.50 Ice STR_20%, INT_20%
Freezebite 1.00 1.50 3.00 Ice STR_30%, INT_20%
Gust Slash 1.00 2.00 2.50 Wind DEX, INT
Cyclone 1.00 2.50 3.00 Wind DEX, INT
Rock Crusher 1.00 2.00 2.50 Earth INT
Earth Crusher 1.00 2.25 3.50 Earth STR, INT
Thunder Thrust 1.50 2.00 2.50 Thunder INT
Raiden Thrust 1.00 2.00 3.00 Thunder STR, INT
Shining Blade 1.00 2.00 2.50 Light MND
Seraph Blade 1.00 2.50 3.00 Light STR, MND
Shining Strike .875 1.75 2.50 Light MND
Seraph Strike .875 2.00 3.00 Light STR, MND
Dark Harvest 1.00 2.00 2.50 Darkness INT
Shadow of Death 1.00 2.50 3.00 Darkness STR, INT
Starburst .875 1.625 2.00 Light/Dark MND or INT
Sunburst .875 2.00 3.125 Light/Dark MND or INT
Blade: Teki 1.00 1.00 1.00 Water ???_30%
Blade: To 1.00 1.00 1.00 Ice ???_30%
Blade: Chi ??? ??? ??? Earth ???_??% 2hits
Blade: Ei ??? ??? ??? Darkness ???_??%
Tachi: Goten 1.00 ??? ??? Thunder STR_30%
Tachi: Kagero 1.00 ??? ??? Fire STR_50%
Tachi: Jinpu 1.00 ??? ??? Wind STR_30% 2hits
Tachi: Koki 1.00 ??? ??? Light STR_??%

Physical WS Damage Calculation:
WD: Base damage of your WS
D: Base damage of your weapon (e.g., Espadon = 43)
fSTR: difference between your STR and target's VIT. This can be capped (see below).
WSC: Secondary attribute like STR_30 (30% of your STR).
fTP: Multiplier (Please see chart below).
PDIF: (your ATK/target’s DEF) Caps at 2.4 for melee attacks and 3 for ranged attacks.

WSC = integer(any secondary attributes) x @

Level @
Lv75... 0.83
Lv74... 0.83
Lv73... 0.84
Lv72... 0.84
Lv67... 0.86 or 0.87 (perhaps 0.87)
Lv60... 0.90 or 0.91 (perhaps 0.90)
Lv40... 0.94
Lv37... 0.94 – 0.99
Lv31... 0.94 - 0.99

For example, suppose you have 100 STR and 100 MND and use use Swift Blade (STR_30, MND_30).

WSC = integer[(100 x 0.3) + (100 x 0.3)] x @ = integer(60) x @ = 60 x @

@ is 0.86 - 0.87 at LV67 but it's going to decrease as your level is going up. It's 0.83 at LV75

WD = (D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP

I’m not 100% positive, but I think for Sneak Attack with THF main, this is the calculation:
WD = (D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP + DEX + AGI

Actual Damage of WS is then calculated in this way.
Melee Damage = WD * PDIF = ((D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP) * PDIF
Ranged Damage = WD * PDIF = ((D + fSTR2 + WSC) * fTP) * PDIF

As for the difference between fSTR and fSTR2, they have different caps:

fSTR = from 0 to (D / 9) + 8
fSTR2 = from 0 to fSTR*2
Note: fSTR [(D / 9) + 8] doesn't count "Arrow D"

Multiply everything by 1.25 if counted as a critical attack (or if sneak attack was added with THF subjob).


Phsyical Chart : fTP multiplier (non-damage related TP modifier in last column)

Grapple WS 100% 200% 300% #Hits Secondary Attribute TP Adjustment
Combo 1.00 1.50 2.00 x3 STR_20%, DEX_20%
Shoulder Tackle 1.00 x2 VIT_30% More stun
One Inch Blow 1.00 x2 VIT_40% Ignore more DEF
Backhand Blow 1.00 x2 STR_30%, VIT_30% Crit Rate
Raging Fists ??? ??? ??? x5 STR_???
Spinning Attack 1.00 x2 STR_35% Attack Radius
Howling Fist 1.50 2.00 3.00 x2 STR_20%, VIT_50%
Dragon Kick 2.00 2.50 3.00 x2 STR_50%, VIT_50%
Asuran Fists 1.00 x8 STR_50% or VIT_50% Accuracy

Dagger WS 100% 200% 300% #Hits Secondary Attribute TP Adjustment
Wasp Sting 1.00 x1 More poison
Shadowstitch 1.00 x1 CHR_30% More bind
Viper Bite 1.00 x1 ATKx2 More poison
Dancing Edge 1.00 x5 DEX_??%, CHR_??% Accuracy
Shark Bite 2.00 ??? 3.00 x2 DEX_50%
Evisceration 1.00 ??? 2.00 x5 DEX_30%

1H Sword WS 100% 200% 300% #Hits Secondary Attribute TP Adjustment
Fast Blade 1.00 1.50 2.00 x2 STR_20%, DEX_20%
Flat Blade 1.00 x1 STR_30% More stun
Circle Blade 1.00 x1 STR_35% Attack Radius
Spirits Within 4/32 6/32 15/32 x1 Current HPx
Vorpal Blade 1.00 x4 STR_30% Crit Rate
Swift Blade 1.50 x3 STR_30%, MND_30% Accuracy
Savage Blade 1.00 1.75 3.50 x2 STR_30%, MND_50%

2H Sword WS 100% 200% 300% #Hits Secondary Attribute TP Adjustment
Hard Slash 1.50 1.75 2.00 1x STR_30%
Power Slash 1.00 1x STR_20%, VIT_20% Crit Rate
Shockwave 1.00 1x STR_30%, MND_30% More sleep
Crescent Moon 1.00 1.75 2.50 1x STR_35%
Sickle Moon ??? ??? ??? 2x STR_??%
Spinning Slash 2.50 3.00 3.50 1x STR_30%, INT_30%
Ground Strike 1.50 1.75 3.00 1x STR_50%, INT_50%

Scythe WS 100% 200% 300% #Hits Secondary Attribute TP Adjustment
Slice 1.50 1.75 2.00 1x STR_30%
Nightmare Scythe 1.00 1x MND_30% More Blind
Spinning Scythe 1.00 1x STR_30% Attack Radius
Vorpal Scythe 1.00 1x STR_35% Crit Ratio
Guillotine ??? ??? ??? 4x STR_??% More Silence
Cross Reaper 2.00 2.25 2.50 2x STR_30%, MND_30%
Spiral Hell 1.375 1.875 3.625 1x STR_50%, INT_50%

Polearm WS 100% 200% 300% #Hits Secondary Attribute TP Adjustment
Double Thrust 1.00 1.50 2.00 2x STR_30%
Leg Sweep 1.00 1x STR_30% More stun
Penta Thrust 0.75 1.00 2.25 5x STR_20%, DEX_20%
Vorpal Thrust 1.00 1x STR_20%, AGI_20% Crit Rate
Skewer 1.00 3x STR_35% Accuracy
Wheeling Thrust 1.75 1x STR_50% Ignore more DEF
Impulse Drive 1.00 1.50 2.50 2x STR_50%

[imac2much]

1H Axe WS 100% 200% 300% #Hits Secondary Attribute TP Adjustment
Raging Axe 1.00 1.50 2.00 2x STR_30%
Smash Axe 1.00 1x STR_30% More stun
Gale Axe 1.50 2.00 2.50 1x STR_30% More choke
Avalanche Axe 2.00 2.50 3.00 1x STR_35%
Spinning Axe 1.00 1x STR_30%
Rampage 0.50 5x STR_30% Crit Chance
Mistral Axe 2.50 3.00 3.50 1x STR_50%
Calamity 1.00 1.50 4.00 1x STR_32%, VIT_32%
Decimation 1.00 3x STR_50% Accuracy

Great Axe WS 100% 200% 300% #Hits Secondary Attribute TP Adjustment
Shield Break 1.00 1x STR_20%, VIT_20% More Evade Down
Iron Tempest 1.00 1x STR_30%
Sturmwind 1.00 2x STR_30%
Armor Break 1.00 1x STR_20%, VIT_20% More Def Down
Keen Edge 1.00 1x STR_35% Crit Rate
Weapon Break 1.00 1x STR_32%, VIT_32% More ATK Down
Raging Rush 1.00 1.50 2.50 3x STR_35%
Full Break 1.00 1x STR_50%, VIT_50% More Stat Down
Steel Cyclone 1.50 1.75 3.00 1x STR_50%, VIT_50%

Club WS 100% 200% 300% #Hits Secondary Attribute TP Adjustment
Brainshaker 1.00 1x STR_30% More stun
Skullbreaker 1.00 1x STR_35% More INT down
True Strike 1.00 1x STR_50% Crit Rate
Judgment 2.00 2.50 4.00 1x STR_32%, MND_32%
Hexastrike ??? 6x STR_??% Crit Rate
Black Halo 1.50 2.50 3.00 2x STR_30%, MND_50%

Staff WS 100% 200% 300% #Hits Secondary Attribute TP Adjustment
Heavy Swing 1.00 1.25 2.25 1x STR_30%
Shell Crusher 1.00 1x STR_35% More DEFDown
Full Swing 1.00 3.00 5.00 1x STR_50%
Spirit Taker 1.00 1.50 2.00 1x INT_50%, MND_50%
Retribution 2.00 2.50 3.00 1x STR_30%, MND_50%

Katana WS 100% 200% 300% #Hits Secondary Attribute TP Adjustment
Blade: Rin 1.00 1x ???_30% Crit Rate
Blade: Retsu 1.00 2x ???_30% More paralysis
Blade: Jin 1.00 3x STR_30%, DEX_30% Crit Rate
Blade: Ten 2.50 2.75 3.00 1x STR_30%, DEX_30%
Blade: Ku 1.00 5x (random)_20% Accuracy

Great Katana WS 100% 200% 300% #Hits Secondary Attribute TP Adjustment
Tachi: Enpi 1.00 1.50 2.00 2x STR_30%
Tachi: Hobaku 1.00 1x STR_30% More Stun
Tachi: Yukikaze 1.50 2.00 2.50 1x STR_75%
Tachi: Gekko 1.50 2.00 2.50 1x STR_75%
Tachi: Kasha 1.50 2.00 2.50 1x STR_75%

Archery WS 100% 200% 300% #Hits Secondary Attribute TP Adjustment
Flaming Arrow 1.00 1.00 1.00 1x STR_16%, AGI_25%
Piercing Arrow 1.00 1x STR_16%, AGI_25% Def Down
Dulling Arrow 1.00 1x STR_16%, AGI_25% Crit Rate
Sidewinder 5.00 1x STR_16%, AGI_25% Accuracy
Blast Arrow 2.00 1x STR_16%, AGI_25% Accuracy
Arching Arrow 3.50 1x STR_16%, AGI_25% Crit Rate
Empyrial Arrow 2.50 2.75 3.00 1x STR_16%, AGI_25%

Marksmanship WS 100% 200% 300% #Hits Secondary Attribute TP Adjustment
Hot Shot 1.00 1.00 1.00 1x AGI_30%
Split Shot 1.00 1x AGI_30% Def Down
Sniper Shot 1.00 1x AGI_30% Crit Rate
Slug Shot 5.00 1x AGI_30% Accuracy
Blast Shot 2.00 1x AGI_30% Accuracy
Heavy Shot 3.50 1x AGI_30% Crit Rate
Detonator 2.50 2.75 3.00 1x AGI_30%

[imac2much]

There are several interesting things to note here.

For one, the WS with the highest damage modifiers are (unsurprisingly) Sidewinder and Slugshot (with a 5x modifier even though the description would lead you to believe it should be 4x), BUT the staff WS Full Swing also has a 5x damage modifier at 300%! Not too shabby for a staff WS.

It's interesting to note what secondary stats certain WS rely on.. for example, while Vorpal Blade only relies on STR, Swift and Savage Blade rely on STR and MND. Many people have read the interview where S-E said some WS rely on CHR, and the only ones that seem to be affected by CHR are 2 Dagger WS Shadowstitch and Dancing Edge.

Also it's interesting that Archery and Markmanship WS do indeed differ in a small way.. Archery relies on STR and AGI whereas markmanship relies solely on AGI.

Remember this is still in development, so not everything is perfect. Still I think it gives us a greater insight into the mechanics of weapon skills. Enjoy and please post any comments/criticism you have.

(Much thanks to Studio Gobli site and Apple Pie for directing me to it/explaining parts of it to me!)

[Lyonesse]

Found this a couple of nights ago and I've found them to be fairly accurate in terms of effects. The original forumlae seem a bit too simple but its the best I've seen.

[csBahamut]

Quite interesting. I'll definitely have to watch how their progress goes.

It seems though that this would go better in another part of the forums?

[imac2much]

Ah, good point. I posted it out of habit since most of my threads are started in these forums :p

How should I go about getting this moved? Or should I just repost in another forum and then delete this one?

[Kagi]

Originally posted by imac2much
It's interesting to note what secondary stats certain WS rely on.. for example, while Vorpal Blade only relies on STR, Swift and Savage Blade rely on STR and MND. Many people have read the interview where S-E said some WS rely on CHR, and the only ones that seem to be affected by CHR are 2 Dagger WS Shadowstitch and Dancing Edge.

I was surprised to find that about CHR too -- this just drove me back to thinking something is up with a pld's CHR stat. It's fairly high for plds (ridiculously high for a stat that doesn't 'contribute' heavily to us, even without armour. I used to think it would affect some of our sword Weaponskills, but if this data is accurate then that's something else to think about.

How are Koenig Plds able to keep hate with no enmity+ at all, vs the 8 blms nuking the mob to death? :confused:

Before this turns into another CHR debate, thanks for posting this Rug ^^b You just gave me another reason to procrastinate and put off studying lol (looking through game stats is so much more interesting :sweat: )

[poweryoga]

because its Capn S...

/slap

good comprehensive list. I'm gonna test the arrow vs x-bow thingy after i save up some $$.

[csBahamut]

I believe you can ask one of the mods to move the thread Rugal.

[Lyonesse]

How are Koenig Plds able to keep hate with no enmity+ at all, vs the 8 blms nuking the mob to death?

It's 8 BLMs nuking not one. Aggro is split between the 8 and hopefully they should all have -Enmity =P. Now, if it was one uber BLM doing that much damage then it would puzzle me ;p

[Loial]

*** This is not fact, but rather theory ***

Now, I don't believe the slightest bit this talk of CHR affected Provoke. It would go against the idea that Provoke is NOT a PLD job ability, hence why should CHR affect it?

Now, I didn't come up with this theory, nor do I know exactly where it originates from, but it goes something like this:

CHR affects the rate at which you lose hate (either from absorbing damage or natural hate-loss over time).

I've had the pleasure of tanking some HNMs alongside some very highly skilled PLD on Leviathan. In most cases, there are 2 PLD (plus some in reserve) and we "duo-tank." It really isn't a competition to grab hate over one another. It is more working together to keep the mob's attention away from the nuke happy mages.

However, this has given me the opportunity to "test" (I loosely will use that term) to see how CHR affects a PLD, if at all.

In short, I have Enmity+17 (including Koenig Gauntlets) gear on whereas the other PLD has two pieces of Koenig but only Enmity+8. The big difference in gear is that the Hume PLD has the Koenig Schaller and I have the Aegishjalmr (Chr-7 Enmity+7).

I honestly thought the Hume PLD would have trouble with keeping hate because of his low enmity+. I had little problem grabbing hate over him, yet keeping hate long-term proved to a problem (however, not a problem for the rest of the alliance ). When I lost hate, the mob would stay glued to the other PLD for the most part. Mobs would smack him 3-4 times before his hate slipped too low, whereas if I grabbed hate, I would tank 2-3 hits before the mob would turn back to him.

I think this is a viable possibility of what CHR does for a PLD, but is in no means something PLD should accept as "fact." A lot more experimenting would be needed.

One thing that I wonder... why don't I see any full Koenig PLD on my server? There are a fair amount of JP HNMLSs that I'm sure have been farming abjurations for a while now, yet every PLD I've seen are in PLD AF1 or some in AF2 or Adaman.

[Ziguld]

Provoke hate isnt lost by taking damage. Enmity bonus is lost by taking damage. Whatever bonuses you have to Enmity are wiped quicker than what bonuses you have to CHR.

Koenig makes gaining snap-agro easier. It makes maintaining agro harder. This is because Koenig is meant to be used for the hardest of HNM, and no-one is supposed to straight up tank these. Hate is passed around and Koenig makes passing hate around easier.

Regarding the lack of Koenig, Martial Abjurations are the second rarest of the Abjurations to drop. Body is Nidhogg, Legs are KB, Feet are Aspid... That means yer looking at about 5-6 chances at those pieces dropping per month and they usually don't. Where as Hands and Helm are just a matter of how many times you want to kill pop mobs in sky. AF2 means more than Koenig. Its higher on the ladder as far as status symbols go, so more people are gonna be wearing it in Jeuno.

[imac2much]

Thanks to Apple Pie, I added some information that I missed out on earlier. This is information on the *damage caps* for each WS.

There is a damage cap for PDIF (ATK<->DEF) check; for melee WS it is 2.4, for ranged it is 3.

There is a damage cap for fSTR and fSTR2 as well (STR<->VIT check).

Hope this clears some things up.

[Rones]

Actual Damage of WS is then calculated in this way.
Melee Damage = WD * PDIF = ((D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP) * PDIF
Ranged Damage = WD * PDIF = ((D + fSTR2 + WSC) * PDIF

Was just looking over these old formulaes and noticed the fTP is missing from the Ranged Damage formula. Was this an accident? Should it be like this instead?
Ranged Damage = WD * PDIF = ((D + fSTR2 + WSC) * fTP) * PDIF

[imac2much]

You're right. Sorry, I made a mistake... fixed now.