Weapon Skill Data, Formulae, and Testing

[imac2much]

Forgot to add update to Wheeling Thrust TP modifier... it is now 1.75 instead of 1.00.

[VZX]

I noticed the page has been updated with some Q&A below

could you update the content on the first page, imac?

Thanks,

[Mitsu]

OMG that Fstr cap kinda makes maxing damage potential easier and fits with S-E trend of balance. Example:
Ninja using Fudo with d39. If i take this right the nin cap Fstr would be: 0 to (39/9)+8=12.3. Now if this is indeed true then it makes pushing weapon skill damage a bit farther by getting a ceartain balance. the only thing i have problems with is guessing Mob Vit and Def by the con system in the game. For example I find an aura golem that cons JUST VT. That means its Def is at my attack level. The problem is guessing VIT from that, but if its def is equal or less then my attack i can assume its vit is the same...i hope. Any input pls im rambling here >.>

[Mitsu]

OMG that Fstr cap kinda makes maxing damage potential easier and fits with S-E trend of balance. Example:
Ninja using Fudo with d39. If i take this right the nin cap Fstr would be: 0 to (39/9)+8=12.3. Now if this is indeed true then it makes pushing weapon skill damage a bit farther by getting a ceartain balance. the only thing i have problems with is guessing Mob Vit and Def by the con system in the game. For example I find an aura golem that cons JUST VT. That means its Def is at my attack level. The problem is guessing VIT from that, but if its def is equal or less then my attack i can assume its vit is the same...i hope. Any input pls im rambling here >.>

[Fuzzbox]

the problem is that the "con" system only checks atk vs. def and acc vs. eva - it doesn't compare the raw stats (str vs. vit and dex vs. agi for melee attacks).

the only way to know a mobs stat range (since most mobs also have a range of levels they can spawn at) would be looking at the game files themselves.

[Navia]

Where does the ammunition of a ranged weapon get factored into the equation? Combining the gun+bullet damage together seems to be the only way this formula gives something remotely close to my real damage output.
Should the damage bonus against flying creatures with ranged attacks be multiplied into fSTR2 or fTp ? Just post multiplying the damage from the current forumla by 1.5 doesnt give me high enough numbers compared to what I see in test fights.

I got a 2781 damage slugshot with a 28 damage gun and 46damage bullet at level 61 against a flying creature - i'm having a hard time getting numbers out of this formula that approach that. Non flying 'too weak' monsters I can get up to 1800damage.

[imac2much]

Fuzzbox is right. /check only checks ATK vs DEF and ACC vs EVA, not base stats... this makes certain things hard to determine.

Navia: D counts both ranged and ammo slots. fSTR2 only counts ranged slot.

As for weaknesses, I believe you multiply the end product by the necessary multiplier. You can see the various multipliers here:
http://ff11.s33.xrea.com/cgi2/monster.cgi

1800 x 1.5 = 2700 so that's close to your guesses.

[Cyrus99]

I do realize that I'm reviving an old thread, but this thing has GOT to be stickied.

[Mithrael]

Regarding Multi-hit WS

In my experience with the DRK multi-hit weapon skills, the 1st hit is usally 2-3x more powerful than all of the rest. So if you hit a one-hit sickle moon where the first hit lands, it may do 300-400 dmg, and a one-hit where the second hit lands, it'll be 90-125. I've seen Similar effects with cross reaper. First hit is worth 300+, second hit is worth 100-ish. All of that assuming no sneak attack is involved, of course.

I guess my supposition is that the first hit of the WS follows this formula, and all subsequent hits are your normal melee hit. Of course it'd all counted as a single event. That's how trick attack, enmity, and skillchain damage would stack.

[Macht]

Heh, well sooner or later I'll get around to doing my own testing on this stuff. Looking at the data though I'm having some serious doubts in parts of it being correct. The only thing that seems be certain is the info on the 100, 200, and 300 TP data.

Of course those the data for those 3 sections have to be the easiest to test for, the rest of the data there I'm having doubts. I'm pretty bad at being a stickler when it comes to formulas, I hate allowing decimals and rounding without proper reason for it.

I hate it because I've handled many different databases getting totals to match 100% and very often an incorrect decimal and rounding can be the difference of being of by .01 upwards to 10,000 in a value as high as 100,000. Also add in the fact that you can take any high number and divide it by 10 to the Nth power and get a wide variety of different number results.

Honestly I don't care if the data is from Japanese, Idonesian, or somewere else the people doing the data is still human and very often humans make big mistakes. Especially if you give in to rounding and non-exact numbers so their results hold no higher value.

[Apple Pie]

In my experience with the DRK multi-hit weapon skills, the 1st hit is usally 2-3x more powerful than all of the rest. So if you hit a one-hit sickle moon where the first hit lands, it may do 300-400 dmg, and a one-hit where the second hit lands, it'll be 90-125.

That's correct and in fact, the author (Studio Gobli) speculates fTP for the 2nd and later hit is x1.00.

Honestly I don't care if the data is from Japanese, Idonesian, or somewere else the people doing the data is still human and very often humans make big mistakes. Especially if you give in to rounding and non-exact numbers so their results hold no higher value.

I am not so serious as you're. At least learning secondary attribute like "STR_30" is enough for me to improve my performance.

I've never done any specific gear swapping for weapon skills as RDM before but now I started to arm STR+ and MND+ gears when I shoot Savage Blade after reading the chart. Not a huge increase of damage but it's worth doing.

[Izual]

Re: Regarding Multi-hit WS

Originally posted by Mithrael
In my experience with the DRK multi-hit weapon skills, the 1st hit is usally 2-3x more powerful than all of the rest. So if you hit a one-hit sickle moon where the first hit lands, it may do 300-400 dmg, and a one-hit where the second hit lands, it'll be 90-125. I've seen Similar effects with cross reaper. First hit is worth 300+, second hit is worth 100-ish. All of that assuming no sneak attack is involved, of course.

I guess my supposition is that the first hit of the WS follows this formula, and all subsequent hits are your normal melee hit. Of course it'd all counted as a single event. That's how trick attack, enmity, and skillchain damage would stack.

I agree with that for sickle moon and cross reaper, however I don't believe that this is true of all multi-hit weaponskills. If you notice, guillotine seems to be the same damage regardless if the first three strikes or the last three strikes land (we can easily tell the difference by the tp returned). Again, I think this trait is specific to some multi-hit weaponskills and not a generalization of all multi-hits.

[Apple Pie]

Again, I think this trait is specific to some multi-hit weaponskills and not a generalization of all multi-hits.

This is also true. For some multi-hit weapon skills such as Asuran Fists and Blade:Ku, fTP is always x1.00 how much current TP we have according to the chart. Guillotine seems to be one of them as well. Current TP only affects the duration of silence.

[ZQM]

According to Russta, you got Mistral Axe and Calamity mixed up

[Mithrael]

Good point... I guess i've only particularly noticed it on 2-hit weapons skills. Raging Axe, Fast Blade, Cross Reaper, Sickle Moon. Guillotine is so grossly inconsistent, it's really hard to tell. On the same mob with no change in buffs, a 4-hit guillotine varies from 400-800 (700-1000 on easy prey and too weak) for me, where Cross/Sickle generally vary very little.