RNG/NIN: Possible uber job/subjob combination?

[Jemson]

So I have this truly awesome static party. Lately, our BLM seems to have been MIA, so we tapped a Japanese RNG/NIN instead. He XP'd with us two nights in a row so far. Now I'm a pretty good Paladin...I keep the hate pretty much 95% of the time. But this RNG/NIN was a madman! Sidewinder, Barrage, etc...he was pulling hate from me faster than I can provoke. So he pulls hate from me almost every battle, and he's got the Utsusemi to tank it! At this point, my party feels pretty sorry for me because I'm feeling all but useless to them. Now before you all start flaming me that I should be able to keep hate through that, or what I'm not doing right, consider the point I'm trying to make.

RNG/NIN:

Pros:
- Massive damage attacks. Better damage than DRK, and more frequent high damage, too!
- Serious hate-grabbing abilities. If every single attack does between 100 and 700 damage, you're going to keep hate. No question about it. Add the fact that you're part of the skillchain (like ours was), that's even more hate.
- Blink tanking with Utsusemi. 'Nuff said.

Cons:
- Damage taken. Once Utusemi wears off, the RNG/NIN doesn't have much DEF or VIT to stave off damage. His or her best bet is to rely on high AGI to evade. This leads to a lot of healing from the WHM. However, it should be noted that Ninja also do not have incredibly high DEF or VIT, and they tank just fine.
- Maintenance costs. This is by far the most expensive job/subjob combination in the game. Whoever tries out this job should be prepared to spend oodles of moolah (I'm guessing 10-20,000 gil) per XP session. Now, our RNG/NIN crafted his own bolts and arrows right there on the spot, however, armor and weapon costs for this can still be prohibitive, not to mention nijitsu tools and food.

So what does everyone think? Is this the most uber job combo of them all? Anyone have any pros or cons to add? If you'll excuse me, now, I think I'll go cry and farm so I can buy some Mermaid rings...

Jemson

[kowboy]

Damage taken isnt a big deal. Usually sidewinder or barrage will end the fight, and if not, the RNG can usually blink tank until 1. the tank gets aggro back 2. the mob dies.

The RNG in my set PT crafted his own arrows and HQ'd them, so he didnt have to use as much materials for a whole stack. He only brought 2 stacks of shihei out during our exp session (18k exp a day), where as myself, war/nin, used 4-5 stacks of shihei per session (20k gil easily on pandemonium). In a good fight, he'd only have to use 1-3 shihei (1 for pull, 2 if he gets aggro after high damage WS or barrage, mob dies).

RNG/WAR has the potential to do more damage, but in reality, RNG/NIN allows you to do more damage (if you want to live). If you are PTing with a RNG/WAR, dont forget to cover him.

[RuneGrey]

Rangers honestly strike me as the class that has the most potential subjob combinations that you can still have fun with. While Ninja seems to be the default choice (and its not a bad one, from the information I've seen) there are a few others that can also be used to good effect - they might not have as much accuracy, but they make up for it in other ways.

While a lot of people here have discussed the WAR sub for Ranger, what about the often forgotten SAM sub? While not being quite as strong as a warrior, I believe it has a touch more accuracy, and the addition of being able to build up TP for the powerful ranger weaponskills in short order. Plus once you get to a high enough level, Samurai also touches on the areas where the NIN sub used to be dominant - you can use 3rd Eye for that one shot blink to save you from damage while the tank works to get hate back, and while meditate isn't as stong was it is for the Samurai, 67% tp is nothing to sneeze at when you need it in a hurry.

So while Ninja is probably the 'best' ranger sub, its hardly the most viable one. And it strikes me as being a bit vanilla as well - since its what you tend to see a lot of rangers as. But that's just my preference, since I always like being a bit different from the crowd.

[Cylus]

RNG/NIN is the safest combo. You don't have to worry about grabbing hate as much. You can deal with hate for a short amount of time, but even though RNG has high AGI, they still can't evade anything that's an xp mob.

RNG/WAR, aside from having more damage, is more reliable if you have any skillchain that has an SATA on it. On the ocassion your weaponskill doesn't turn the mob, a provoke afterwards pretty much guarantees you will.

RNG/SAM is iffy. Doesn't have the safety of Ninja, nor the damage of RNG/WAR. Pumping out too many sidewinders can be dangerous, but I think a smart RNG could make good use of this job combo. Also, pretty much the only job combo in the game that can self chain without a 2 hr now. :D Making a level 3 renkei by yourself would be fun.

Rangers shouldn't be pulling hate off a good tank unless they are using weaponskills, barrage, or 2hr, and they should be using those unless it will kill/almost kill the mob, to turn the mob for a sata skillchain, or in an emergency. Too many things can go wrong when RNG starts tanking.

Edit: Should this be in RNG forum?

[Macht]

Really what combination works good depends on the monster. A RNG/NIN is going to have a very difficult time against monsters that use double attack frequently, the Utsusumei will end up being spent extreemly fast since RNG have the lowest rating in Evasion.

In that situation the RNG/NIN actually ends up being a bit weaker then a /WAR or /SAM. Regardless of sub RNG is a dangerous Main if you don't control your attacks properly. Doing RNG/NIN allows you tank on some monsters but if you try to do it with all you'll eventually kill yourself.

RNG/WAR lets you do nice damage (More then /NIN can) but again go to far with it and you'll end up tanking and eventually dying again. RNG/SAM doesn't give you that great of damage, has no accuracy bonuses (Neither does /NIN or /WAR for that matter really), but gives you the ability to really fire off a lot of WSs in attempt to end the fight much faster.

Again though RNG/anything and you still have to be careful what you are doing. The logic with /NIN and /WAR or /SAM is the focus you do in the fight. With /NIN you are trying to push you damage just were you are tanking a little bit. With /WAR you have a double methods pushing your attack to an extreem in attempt to end the fight in the next couple of hits, or pushing your damage much greater then what /NIN would do but tring to keep youself just under the tank in hate.

RNG/SAM his focus would be an attempt to end the fight in possibly 2 powerful Renkei's (with use of meditate to make 2 renkei's with 2 other members). In any of the cases it all depends on your play style and what you are able to do better and do with the least flaws.

I personally kind of see RNG/NIN as the easy and somewhat lack luster way of going, your damage isn't going to be something like /WAR and the number of Renkei's you can pull is also less then what /SAM can do however you can avoid more hits then either one of those two can do.

[Rekiem]

Actually, the most uber Job/Subjob is a NIN/WAR throwing Shuriken. Highest DoT possible and still has the best tanking skill. Probably the most expensive combo too.

[LordBiGGs]

well...yea rng/nin is uber, not just a possibility. don't know how you got to lvl 58 without ever hearing about this combo before lol. the reason you think they're regular attack is doing from 100-700 damage is those 700 damage shots aren't just a regular attack. that's barrage. the rng activates the skill, then it adds damage to the next attack, like SA and TA.

about the last post...nin/war throwing shurikens being the best damage dealer and tank in the game?...give me a break. theres no way a nin/war can even rank with mnk's, drk's, blm's or rng's.

[Malabmannop]

Biggs shut up and read the damage and delay on shurikens before you say they can't touch the traditional classes. Don't crap on other people's realizations down because they don't sound right to you. pfft I pity da fool.

[D0oM]

lol, last time i partied, we had a nin and pld (idiot party...)

ninja wasnt voking, and the pld was spamming cure's + voke, the ninja could turn hate easily when he started to throw shurikens. they do crazy DoT.

[poweryoga]

Rng/Nin is for accuracy for the most part IMO. The stuff about the safety of utsusemi.... you shouldn't be spamming arrows until the pld loses hate anyways, that's what the weapon skills are for, and cover + thf/drk turning the mob is exactly what you want.

I've yet to see a pld hold hate after i sidewinder, on nin or war sub. Arching arrow is used to setup light renkei, and in that case will not do nearly enough damage to turn the mob so provoke/warcry comes in handy for turning the mob if your arching happens to do crap damage. (assuming you're pting with drk/thfs) If you're already pushing the line on aggro/safety, using a weapon skill will ensure you tank the rest of the round, and not even /nin will save you from a heafty amount of damage. In this case, War is better than nin sub because pld will be forced to cover you regardless.

Since you'll need to be covered either way, why bother with /nin unless you need the accuracy bonus?

I know /nin has its uses, but I can't see why people think /war is such a terrible sub.

[Fullmetal]

I played RNG/WAR until 58 at it worked out well. But after 58 i switched to RNG/NIN giving myself a +22 accuracy boost (2nd Hawker Knife and AF Chestpiece) and never looked back. I consitantly hit Slugshot with 170minimum TP and Utsusemi is a lifesaver. Sure peoples jaws would drop the moment i landed a Berserk > Slug Shot > Barrage > Slugshot but it just wasn't worth the risk of getting nailed. A bare minimum for Slug Shot as RNG/WAR was 200+ TP and even then i could miss a lot! In my opinion /NIN is the best subjob because its safety and accuracy just outweigh the damage /WAR CAN give you in optimal conditions. Besides you can always lvl both to 37 and switch to whichever the PT needs. Ninja tank with no Thief? Sub Nin. Paladin tank with a 2nd Provoker and a DRK/THF or Thief? Sub warrior cause you can go all out.

[pdac]

Well, a few notes on my experience so far:

When pting with a thf, I usually will pull, hold hate for a few moments, and let him sa/ta to set hate on the tank. When combined with a good tank, I wont get hate no matter how much I spam arrows. Also, for sc's, I'll do my WS right at the start, and have the thf do sa/ta + viper bite to set hate. This has been more than sufficient for taking the target down by around 50% (including mb) in one shot. However, I haven't gotten sidewinder yet, so I don't know what sort of experiences I'll have at that point... >_>

As for rng/nin vs. rng/war, I much more prefer the added accuracy from my archers knives vs. the added damage from /war. Then again, I also don't have war high enough for a fully levelled sub at this point, which is a problem should a party want me to use it. I imagine I'll give it a shot sometime soon though.

As for rng tanking, not a good idea unless you're uber and at rng 74 / nin 37 with utsusemi: ni. Even then, its iffy...