PLD or NIN

[csBahamut]

NIN isn't a more efficient job if you include all the extra time they have to spend farming to pay for the tools they need to hold hate. NIN may save some time fighting monsters for exp, but then the NIN has to devote even more time to farming(or however they obtain their gil).

When it comes down to it, would you rather spend more time getting gil(NIN), or more time fighting monsters for exp(PLD)? My choice is with PLD. I like long fights and gaining exp in general. Quick fights are fun every now and then, but that's what weaker monsters are for(nothing like the satisfaction of utterly anihilating an enemy). Heck, if anyone saw the way I played RPGs, they would ask me why I hadn't gotten bored leveling up so much. I prefer to get as much enjoyment out of a game as possible, rather than beat it and move on to the next(i.e. I don't get bored easily).

Some people need to race to the end of a game. I prefer to make the race there fun. That way, not only do I get the fun of experiencing the endgame, but I also get to enjoy my journy to the end.

[edit]

IMO PLD is a sissy ass job and i'm getting sick of it

If PLD is such a sissy job, why do WARs take hits like a girl?

[Stolin]

Originally posted by csBahamut
NIN isn't a more efficient job if you include all the extra time they have to spend farming to pay for the tools they need to hold hate. NIN may save some time fighting monsters for exp, but then the NIN has to devote even more time to farming(or however they obtain their gil).

When it comes down to it, would you rather spend more time getting gil(NIN), or more time fighting monsters for exp(PLD)? My choice is with PLD. I like long fights and gaining exp in general. Quick fights are fun every now and then, but that's what weaker monsters are for(nothing like the satisfaction of utterly anihilating an enemy). Heck, if anyone saw the way I played RPGs, they would ask me why I hadn't gotten bored leveling up so much. I prefer to get as much enjoyment out of a game as possible, rather than beat it and move on to the next(i.e. I don't get bored easily).


If PLD is such a sissy job, why do WARs take hits like a girl?

you've got to be kidding me...

[Kiyosuki]

Well no matter what, I'd rather at least have the choice between more than just one tank, and have them argue and rival against eachother, than just have one type of job that tanks so that job can get too full of themselves..

Wouldn't it be lame if there was just one damage dealer, and one tank? All DD's are there to do damage at they're core, but they have different ways of doing it which is what makes them all different, same with tanks.

Regardless of weither one is better over the other, or if they're equal, I'd rather have a choice than no choice at all.

[Rogan]

well I decided to change this post, and as far as my opinion goes, if pld and nin both do their job to their max potential, nin>pld, but I've found that about 70% of nin do not know what they are doing and cannot hold hate as well as pld. It seems that 85% of pld are able to hold the mob to them, but if I see both a pld and nin seeking, I for some reason choose the nin, because when you do get that good nin, the exp is unbelievable. I still dont think its fair to say that pld are always better than nin, or vise versa, yes, naturally, pld hold hate better, but I still find it ok to risk it and get a nin for the chance of a greater party, and with thf I normally never see them having a problem

[Stolin]

You keep argueing that "Pld can hold hate better than ninja".
This is just not true. Not bloody true

I'll go over the points one more time and then I'm so through with this thread.

Reasons why EXP goes faster with NIN than PLD. I'm not saying either job is better just that after i've seen the BS here on this thread i know that theres a hell of a lot more idiot PLDs than ninjas.

1. Ninjas do more damage
2. ninjas take less damage

[csBahamut]

NIN spends more money to level. Most PLDs don't. If PLDs would throw more money into leveling, by like say, using potions or ethers, they could theoretically be able to perform even better than they do.

You keep argueing that "Pld can hold hate better than ninja".

That's why the NIN last night couldn't keep the mob on himself after the renkei and MB, despite doing everything that you guys say a good NIN does. He never got hit, always used provoke, used his ninjitsu debuffs and stuff, and threw stars. He had no THF giving him SATA either.

PLD, WAR, and NIN are all good tanks. NIN is just the new 'all mighty uber' job now. Back a few months, before parsers were out, everyone thought DRK was the best melee under RNG. We now know this is not true.

[Stolin]

Mr csBahamut the problems I have with your points is that:
Your are more or less saying that pld is more efficient because...
- PLD is funner than ninja
- Ninja is a worse tank because it has to use money
- You like long fights
- NIN has to take time to earn gil (and PLDS do not ?_?)
- Your party has gotten 5k exp an hour with you tanking
- You don't get bored easy
- nin is just the uber elite class now
- One ninja you have partied with (maybe the only one in your whole life) didn't impress you
- "High levels know a lot but there is still some things they haven't tried" (/polishes eyeballs, /rereads, /shocked, So you are saying you are more expirienced than some of the people here who have lelved ninja and pld both past 70?)


These points don't make any sense sorry. I really don't mean to flame you honestly. Just i have no idea where you are going with this. My best guess is you are tryin to defend your job. Does it really bother tHAT much that in exp ninjas are more efficient? Does it keep you awake at night? Do you have ninja shaped voodoo dolls prepared for whenever you get a lock of thier hair? cmon..get over it. Its not that big of deal. The job you decide to play does NOT make you any better or worse player than you are. If you are good you will be good at everything if you suck well you will suck at everything its that simple.

[csBahamut]

I'm just trying to point out that PLD and NIN are just as good at tanking. Neither one is WAAAY better than the other.

Effieciency doesn't matter on damage tank/dealt alone. Exp efficiency depends on the whole party, and each player's skill(along with devotion to aquiring enough gil). Also, the time spent obtaining gil to pay for leveling needs to be taken into account. Say, for example(these number are purely ficticious and no way represent the actual amounts needed) a NIN spends 5 hours leveling from 60->61. So they might spend 20K in tools(excluding time that was needed to obtain gear). To earn that 20K for tools, the NIN may have needed to spend 2 hours to obtain the gil. Now, a PLD tank on the other hand may require 6 hours to get the same exp, but the PLD only spends 6K for food(excluding gear costs). The PLD might then need to spend 1 hour to obtain the gil to pay for the food used up. Now, to anybody but the tanks, the NIN looks more effiecient, which is true exp wise. But, it requires a NIN who doesn't mind doing more work for the other party memebers. I hope you can see my point now.

Something else to think about. How badly would someone want to party with a NIN tank if the party had to share the cost of powders and tools?

"High levels know a lot but there is still some things they haven't tried" (/polishes eyeballs, /rereads, /shocked, So you are saying you are more expirienced than some of the people here who have lelved ninja and pld both past 70?)

I'm not saying I know more than all of them, but many people think that once they're high level, they know everything. Life is a life long learning process. There's ALWAYS something you don't know. For those that have kids, how many times have they learned something new from their child? MANY have.

[Stolin]

Well that point is just off topic. Not to mention it only applies that the ninjas you are talking about are playing Ninja as thier first job which is only the case a small part of the time.

As for helping pay for the tools ninja uses. Hell i wouldn't mind, but i'm pretty sure my ninja friends would laugh thier ass off getting 5k freebies for each person because its such a small amount of money. Most people who play these jobs that need perputual funds playing the job have perpetual money coming into them. On top of that they can solo NMs that con even - tough to them and take all the gil for theirselves. Examples would be getting high yields from gardening every couple weeks or have a high level craft to where they can keep stuff on the AH on all thier mules at all times. Once the ninja finds their niche at making money ... farming comes obsolete.

So if you want to bring money into this ninja to a point is a more efficient gil maker than PLD is. Now this mostly depends on the person. If its their Ninja or PLD is someones 2nd or 3rd job they'd obvioulsy have better ways to make money than someone who played ninja or pld as thier first.

If you are spending 6k per level on non-armor expenses that can be easily obtained just by the CP you get from fighting exp mobs. PLD have an advantage to where they have lots of great rare/ex armor or accessories that won't necessarily cost money until thier cursed gear. The only items PLD really needs to have is silent oils, prism powders, echo drops, and fish mithkabobs and none of them run out too quickly. The only way a PLD can keep up with the ninja gil factory is when they have a good BCNM party or start hunting with thier LS. So this makes a lot of plds lucky who have buddies to hunt with a lot, but the more casual or less social player will have a much harder time making money and keeping up with AF and other rare/ex gear. In other words if the PLD has no friends hes going to struggle a tad more than a ninja would.

Anyways like i said before I wouldn't mind paying for the tools the ninja uses. A huge mess can come with this that you may not have thought of though. A ninja can always lie, or hold back the amount of items he uses and more or less steal your money without you even knowing it. It would be too hard for humans to catalog each and every tool ninja used in the EXP PT. But you really shouldn't play a job you can't afford to play well. I can understand if a ninja can't buy a harness, but they should have at least a hairpin, dodge earrings, and a spirit torque and i'm happy.

This reply has gotten so long I've forgotten why I have even posted for, but I wil close saying this. Ninja is most efficient in EXP by a good margine. If this bothers you than its your demon you must live with. You should be giving props to them because you said yourself they do have to work harder than PLDs to be a good tank.

[Taoist]

heh... i would love to see a PLD tank w/ stacks and stacks of x-potions

[Stolin]

I dont think the potions stack

[euric]

Must this debate always rage? As a paladin, when lvling my War I always keep an open mind to "The Tank" whoever it may be. I was once in a pty as war/pal, I know not a great combo but hey, who brought in a Nin to blinky. We had no thief. She called when blink had dropped and I voked it off her. When she had recast she voked and pulled it back. We rocked for hours and tons of XP this way. all depends on the situation, and how well the group works together. As a Pal I say even Blink tanks have a place. But never underestimate me hahaha.

[Stolin]

No one wants to hear about your gimp parties.

[euric]

Originally posted by Stolin
No one wants to hear about your gimp parties.

2 words, rude heffer

[Ozymandis]

I partied with a Galka ninja tank over the weekend for the first time in quite a while. He was damn good, dunno what he did differently than others but hate was on him rock-solid.

He did have two things going for him:
-highest-level person in the party
-a good thief. We'd turn the mob for SATAWS instead of the degenerate thief way of tricking onto anyone who was stupid enough to stand on the other side of the mob

Hopefully I have a chance to see more NIN tanks in action who are actually good. One thing is for sure, their attack speed gets really very impressive