PLD or NIN

[Demetrios]

I'm now a 75 PLD 71 NIN

After lvling in Kuftal Tunnel again on Tigers, Cocatrices, and Ladons I can say for certain with the correct PT setup, such as NIN/WAR RNG/NIN DRK/THF, NIN is a much better tank. While your PLD will be eating 100~200+ damage per hit & thus increasing down time, your NIN will rarely get hit and Heavy Shot/Arching Arrow > Spinning Slash with Firaga 3 MB is unstoppable. Moreover, NIN is a very decent damage dealer, and when equipped with the right gear can hit for 40~60 PER hand on IT+ monsters. In addition, hate doesn't fly at all thanks to the DRK.

On a side note, any taru BLM that gets killed in two hits either forgot stoneskin or blink, that's not the fault of the NIN.

[csBahamut]

Some good points Law, but I can't say I agree on everything. Less MP used doesn't always mean better exp. MP not being used is still wasted just as much as if it was being used. If the WHM always has tons of MP left, then that's MP going to waste. I haven't come across MP problems except when my party decides to have fun and go ALL OUT in a fight(meaning, Mages spend all their MP and Melees go nuts). Even then, I'm still left with MP at the end of the fight, but not enough to last another fight.

I believe it comes down to party comfiguration, strategy, and player ability that really decides exp/hr, not whether or not you have a NIN or PLD tank.

As to getting 8k exp/hr, that's actually possible? I've never seen anybody claim to have done more than 5K exp/hr in a leveling session. That's why I was surprised when my group could get 6K exp/hr. To be able to get 8K exp/hr, there would have to be HUGE damage output at an incredibly fast rate. That's a lot of hate that the NIN has to generate to keep up with. The party probably couldn't have a BLM because the BLM would be using up so much MP. And if the BLM is casting so much, s/he'd hardly have time to rest back MP too. If you claim that a party with a NIN tank can do 8k exp/hr, then I'm going to have to prove that a PLD can do it as well.

[Rekiem]

An optimal party with a PLD will usually net around 3k per hour while a PT with a NIN will give between 4k and 5k. This is from my experience.

Reason is really simple. In the optimal party with Paladin tanking, you have to dedicate a spot for a cure tank, either a WHM or SMN most of the time. This mean you have 1 less person doing damage.

Now in the optimal party with the Ninja, you don't have to waste a spot on a Cure tank. You can use that spot and add a BLM, RDM for nuking. Now this mean you have another damage dealer you didn't had in the party with the paladin. But you also to note that you now have the Ninja in the party, also doing damage. Now this mean you have two extra damage dealer in your party.

[csBahamut]

Originally posted by Rekiem
An optimal party with a PLD will usually net around 3k per hour while a PT with a NIN will give between 4k and 5k. This is from my experience.

Reason is really simple. In the optimal party with Paladin tanking, you have to dedicate a spot for a cure tank, either a WHM or SMN most of the time. This mean you have 1 less person doing damage.

Now in the optimal party with the Ninja, you don't have to waste a spot on a Cure tank. You can use that spot and add a BLM, RDM for nuking. Now this mean you have another damage dealer you didn't had in the party with the paladin. But you also to note that you now have the Ninja in the party, also doing damage. Now this mean you have two extra damage dealer in your party.

You haven't seen my static party in action yet then. If the leveling area isn'r crowded(we have enough pulls), my static get's at least 5K exp/hr, if not more. And to show you what kind of party we have too: PLD/WAR, DRG/WAR, THF/NIN, WHM/BLM, BLM/WHM, and RDM/BLM. We have no problems with MP either(after finding out that ancient magic is a waste of MP). Our WHM even tends to have enough MP to throw in a few nukes himself after hasting the DRG and THF(I never need Haste myself). Heck, our WHM doesn't do all the healing either. Sometimes, I heal just as much as our WHM does in a battle. I also tend to have enough extra MP left at the end of each battle with which I can top off the other melee, allowing our WHM to heal another tick or 2 of MP.

Now, if you're talking about a pickup party, where the players haven't played with eachother before, then yeah, I can see them only getting 3K exp/hr.

I don't know if I'd consider the NIN as an extra damage dealer, but they do provide more extra damage dealing than a PLD.

Sure, you don't really need a main healer with a NIN like you do with a PLD or WAR tank, but then you're straining another mage's MP pool to take care of healing.

I highly doubt that NIN is the best overall tank in any situation. For the typical crab and crawler exp mobs, yeah, a NIN is probably better. Too bad my group doesn't like conforming to such easy to kill mobs. We like to take other mobs more suited to our party.

[Kesai]

I've hit 8.5k per hour before

nin/war, rng/nin, drk/war, blm/whm, rdm/whm, brd/whm

In garliage citadel fighting beetles and bats at lvl 38'ish (I forgot exactly what lvl...my friend parsed that xp session and when he told me what we did I was like...whoa..)

Most of the mobs were either VT or lowish IT I believe, we were the only PT in front of the doors, the mob's were just dying incredibly fast and the rng didn't stop pulling for a few hours straight. After awhile we had to ask the rng to stop because I needed a breather =P

Nin damage is much better then people believe. With haste on in pure melee (no ws, magic etc) damage I am usually on par with the drk and (once in a long while) mnk in my PT. With double attack going off on both hands sometimes i hit the mob 6x before the drk swings his scythe, with each hit doing 30-50 or if i'm lucky and they crit 70-80 damage.

This is not counting magic damage which is often 80 per spell and up to 110 when MB

The weakest point of nin damage is definatly the weaponskills..this is where nin gets shown up by the real damage dealers.

[csBahamut]

Well, you were extremely lucky to have that many pulls available. Most of the time, my party runs out of pulls, and we have to wait. Being bats too, they were really easy to kill. Has anybody been able to do 8K exp/hr NOT on bats/beetles/crawlers/crabs/mandys(or any other easy to kill mob)? What about on flys/bones/lizards?

[Kesai]

I haven't xp'd that much on fly's, bones are pretty easy for nin to tank since shadow's absorb hell slash, ancient magic etc just fine. I kinda like it when things try to cast ancient on me since it's 18 secs or so of the mob just standing there doing nothing.

Shadow type mobs are easy as well.. for some reason dimensional death doesn't seem to even take away a shadow??

Lizards I don't like.. they attack fast, double attack often and use petrify :sweat:

[LawDawg]

8k/hr can easily be attained against any mob with the right setup. If you are fighting bones and have a setup like this:

NIN, MNK, MNK, MNK, BRD, RDM (or BLM) your going to kill those bones very fast, with no damage taken.

same against flys, if you have a setup of:
NIN, RNG, RNG, RNG, BRD (or maybe another RNG), RDM(or BLM), im sure you could get 8k/hr.

If you replace those NIN tanks with PLD tanks, you are still going to have an awesome PT... the only problem, 8000 exp/ ~200 xp = 40 fights which means each fight lasts 90 seconds... in 90 seconds, you will get hit for approximatly (this is my best guess), 15 times, each for about ~100 damage, which is 1500 HP that needs to be cured. Thats about 8 Cure IIIs ... =\ ... So instead of nuking/debuffing/etc, the mages will have to throw in a cure once in a while. Especially in a RNG/NIN PT, the NIN can lose hate once in a while because the RNG will have shadows to absorb hits. In the MNK PT, if the MNKs have the best equipment, theyll probably counter or evade the hit.

Bleh... i've levelled PLD to 62, and I realized what Rekiem said is true (you should really listen to the high levels). Making huge exp becomes very easy after level 41, but it gets much harder in the 60s and 70s. You can't get 200 xp a kill anymore (with a PLD tank) because those mobs will hit you for 150 each hit. The average PLD tank PT will only net 2-3k/hr... which sucks. I have only been in 1 5k/hr+ PT since hitting level 50... thats terrible... all the while the NINs in my LS (who are actually levelling NIN as their SECOND job) were outlevelling me (again, this was their SECONDARY job... they leveled their primary, 3rd, 4th job as well). Of course PLDs shouldn't have a hard time finding a PT, but on bahamut, I have to compete with 5 other PLDs for PTs... and usually, the NINs get taken first by JP PTs. (just from personal experience) Thats why I'm going BST...

[csBahamut]

Well, I'll just have to try and get my party to get as close to 8K exp/hr as I can. High levels may know a lot, but there's a lot yet that they probably haven't tried.

We also get 5K exp/hr easily. I don't know why you say PLDs can only get 1-2K exp/hr.

[Damane]

I am myself a pld but I took here the ninja. Good ninja with enough cash and good equipment and gameplay can way do better then a pld.

[LawDawg]

8k/hr can easily be attained against any mob with the right setup. If you are fighting bones and have a setup like this:

NIN, MNK, MNK, MNK, BRD, RDM (or BLM) your going to kill those bones very fast, with no damage taken.

same against flys, if you have a setup of:
NIN, RNG, RNG, RNG, BRD (or maybe another RNG), RDM(or BLM), im sure you could get 8k/hr.

If you replace those NIN tanks with PLD tanks, you are still going to have an awesome PT... the only problem, 8000 exp/ ~200 xp = 40 fights which means each fight lasts 90 seconds... in 90 seconds, you will get hit for approximatly (this is my best guess), 15 times, each for about ~100 damage, which is 1500 HP that needs to be cured. Thats about 8 Cure IIIs ... =\ ... So instead of nuking/debuffing/etc, the mages will have to throw in a cure once in a while. Especially in a RNG/NIN PT, the NIN can lose hate once in a while because the RNG will have shadows to absorb hits. In the MNK PT, if the MNKs have the best equipment, theyll probably counter or evade the hit.

Bleh... i've levelled PLD to 62, and I realized what Rekiem said is true (you should really listen to the high levels). Making huge exp becomes very easy after level 41, but it gets much harder in the 60s and 70s. You can't get 200 xp a kill anymore (with a PLD tank) because those mobs will hit you for 150 each hit. The average PLD tank PT will only net 2-3k/hr... which sucks. I have only been in 1 5k/hr+ PT since hitting level 50... thats terrible... all the while the NINs in my LS (who are actually levelling NIN as their SECOND job) were outlevelling me (again, this was their SECONDARY job... they leveled their primary, 3rd, 4th job as well). Of course PLDs shouldn't have a hard time finding a PT, but on bahamut, I have to compete with 5 other PLDs for PTs... and usually, the NINs get taken first by JP PTs. (just from personal experience) Thats why I'm going BST...

[csBahamut]

The average PLD tank PT will only net 2-3k/hr... which sucks. I have only been in 1 5k/hr+ PT since hitting level 50... thats terrible...

Sorry to hear that. You'd be singing a slightly different tune if you were the PLD in my static.

[neelon]

Originally posted by LawDawg

The average PLD tank PT will only net 2-3k/hr... which sucks. I have only been in 1 5k/hr+ PT since hitting level 50... thats terrible...

And I am also sure that a party with an average (key word being average here) Ninja Tank will come nowhere near 8K/hour.

At the moment, with enough mobs to pull, my static can do about 4-5K/hour, easily. For me, that is fast enough. I don't want to be part of a hard-core leveling machine racing to the top at hyper-speed. I want to enjoy the game and have fun too.

[Stolin]

Only people totally biased to thier job, and completely naive to other classes would think PLD gets more EXP per hour than a NIN would.

In the end it doesn't matter. Yes ninja is so much more efficient than PLDs at exp. Whoever said the "End result is the same, the monster is dead and your mates are still alive and kicking" is right. Honestly I hate exping. EXP is a minor part of the game for me. I haven't leveled my bard since May and never plan to.

Either jobs will get you what you want. Some maybe slower and take more damage but yes its all the same in the end.

[hoboman]

IMO PLD is a sissy ass job and i'm getting sick of it .. these reasons are
A. there are hundreds of PLD on bahamut, yet.. it always seems theres a shortage when you actually need one
B.so far all NIN have held hate better than any PLD i have PT'd with so far