ranged attack and melee.

[LeonstrifeLEV]

Kk like all my theories that I come up with this is probably gonna be all choppy and this but here it goes.

I was wondering if you guys might think of it being possible if a ranged attack and a melee setup working in tandem with each other would improve ones dps rate dramatically assuming the ranged attack is at least 80% in hit rate.

I know that my ranged weapons delay + my ammo's delay /110 is the amount that is added on to my next swing which is what has me worried about this whole thing, but the additional damage and tp gain should make it worth while assuming that I'm not whiffing half the time I'm firing it off (adding a needless 5 secs to my melee). Its kinda like the same headache I got when occult acumen came out trying to find out if its got a decent use or was a gimmick but at least then the melee timer kept ticking if I was casting a spell and halted if I wasn't finished.

Gonna try it out anyway but would like some decent input on this possibly working or why it doesn't have a shot in hell please. Outside of soloing with bloody bolts that kinda goes without saying.

[Ziero]

Re: ranged attack and melee.

....for Drk?

They have terrible ranged combat skills, they would need completely different gear set ups to even hit most mobs post 30 and Ranged attacks would only slow down their melee attacks. Add in the fact that optimal ranged attack distance on most weapons is outside melee range, and there's little to no reason to even think about ranged attacking.

The only class who can really make use of melee/ranged combat is Corsair, but their melee isn't anything incredible to begin with and it would mainly just be a way to boost TP gain.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: ranged attack and melee.

but at least then the melee timer kept ticking if I was casting a spell and halted if I wasn't finished.

False. For both ranged attacks and casting magic, the melee auto-attack timer is put on pause until the ranged attack/magic spell is complete.

Therefore, on the subject of ranged attack versus auto-attack, the damage output and TP gain of each individually should be compared side-by-side, as any sort of mixing between the two will fall in between the lesser and greater values. If ranged attacks are providing a greater rate of TP gain without significantly less DPS, then you should fall back on those alone. This, however, is not likely to be the case unless you're a Ranger or Corsair, and I'm wagering a guess that you're a Dark Knight.

This is not to say that ranged attacks are suddenly all but worthless to you, as you are undoubtedly aware that you have a few status bolts that you can fall back on. That makes them worth shooting until their job has been done, in which case you can go back to what will then undoubtedly produce more damage: your melee weapon. Furthermore, there are, in fact, some rare cases where constantly being in melee range is more impractical than it's worth, so assuming that TP-feeding is not the primary malfunction in one of those situations, you might be able to get away with letting loose some damage bolts then. Maybe.

Also, concerning Occult Acumen, it does reward you for using Drain and Drain II like you should, though according to the wiki, even at the higher levels, it rewards you TP equal to 10% of the casting cost, making the rewards from Drain lackluster at best. Hilariously enough, that would imply that it does reward spending ridiculous amounts of MP on otherwise laugh-worthy Dark Knight nukes. And you even get a better deal out of it than the Black Mage right next to you, who's only going to get 2.5% of their MP cost back in TP, which will then proceed to be lost as they swap out staves for their next spell. Just a hunch, but I severely doubt we're going to see a boost in the usage of Spirit Taker any time soon . . .

[LeonstrifeLEV]

Re: ranged attack and melee.

So using ranged attacks to boost tp ( and other things with the status bolts) with the melee would hurt more then help. I figured that I would be boosting my tp gain considerably at the cost of 4-5 secs to my melee timer and not ruin my dps exactly since I would still be doing some damage but when I wrote it down or even just say it like here something just wasn't clicking in my head. I would say "bar high haste conditions" then think why would that even matter?

idk I think I'm just confusing the hell out of myself now adays with this game for no reason. ><

[Raydeus]

Re: ranged attack and melee.

No, your idea is good, which is why SE nerfed the practice long time ago.

[LeonstrifeLEV]

Re: ranged attack and melee.

wait so like nerf as in no longer can be done, harder to do, doesn't work as well? Need to find me some patch notes.

[Armando]

Re: ranged attack and melee.

In the olden days Ranged Attacks were the same regardless of where you were standing.

Then RNG got nerfed and part of that nerf included making your ranged accuracy and ranged attack vary depending on where you're standing - and it's going to be worse than optimal at melee range. This is because RNGs did obscene damage compared to any other melee job with their ranged attacks alone, and they could also fill the gap between shots with melee attacks.

That ruined RNG's reputation for a good long while, and it wasn't until recent years that it got buffed. But the part where you need to stand at a specific distance to have optimal ranged attack/accuracy is still there.

[LeonstrifeLEV]

Re: ranged attack and melee.

I was under the impression that only the damage from a ranged attack is modified with the distance and that accuracy is unaffected. Idk most of my stuff on this is hearsay.

That being said, does that mean other jobs can still do this same thing that you mentioned Armando only in reverse (ranged attack filling the gap of melee) to boost output?

edit: just found the wiki on distance.

double edit: I understood nothing about the accuracy on there ><. is that bonus damage and acc, and if so that means 95% acc isnt changed at melee range? wth is this un nerf patch that isn't being considered?

And triple edit just for good measure: from what I see from the chart I'll need another 30% for my hit rate at melee range if it works at 65% to cap acc?

[Armando]

Re: ranged attack and melee.

That being said, does that mean other jobs can still do this same thing that you mentioned Armando only in reverse (ranged attack filling the gap of melee) to boost output?

Anything you do that isn't meleeing will stop your melee timer. So no, you can't squeeze extra actions in between melee swings without delaying the next swing. If your delay is 4 seconds between swings, and you cast a 2 second spell (or ranged attack) then your next melee swing is going to take 6 seconds instead of 4, because the melee timer stopped ticking during those 2 seconds.

This isn't exactly the case with ranged attacks. After you finish a shot, there's a delay before you can start the next one; however, you can do anything else during that time. For example, suppose you had to wait 1 second (made up number) to shoot your next shot. Your melee timer is still running during that time. So if you had a 4 sec delay between swings, after four shots you'd get a melee swing in.

I'm fairly sure accuracy is affected as well, but I'm not the most qualified person to answer that. Maybe some career RNG or COR will come in and clarify.

[LeonstrifeLEV]

Re: ranged attack and melee.

well the distance chart shows some percentages with certain distances with no rating in it so idk if this is a boost to a "base" rating of my acc and att or if the 100% is the base and everything else is a reduction. Also again it says pre un-nerf patch so idk.

[LeonstrifeLEV]

Re: ranged attack and melee.

KK I found the patch note which sorta helps but not really.

As a result of adjustments to make ranged attack damage differ according to the distance from the target, jobs that specialize in ranged attacks have suffered a decrease in performance. In the next version update, we plan to reassess the adjustments made to accuracy and attack power according to distance from target.

[The Distance Calculation and Added Effects]

Ranged attack damage and accuracy are currently adjusted by a calculation based on the distance of the player from the enemy target. However, we plan to decrease the values for ranged accuracy and ranged attacks used in this calculation. This will ensure that the calculation will no longer largely eliminate the enhancements given by meals and equipment. Instead, the effects will be added directly to the player's attributes.

For example, if a player eats sushi, he will be able to largely compensate for the accuracy adjustment, and if a player eats meat, he will be able to compensate for the damage adjustment.

[Changes to Distance Adjustments]

We plan to slightly widen the range in which players can deal out maximum damage using bows, crossbows, and other distance weapons, as well as ease the decrease in accuracy and attack power that comes the farther the player is from the target.

The italicized part confuses me. is it like closer is a bigger acc bonus and further is a bigger att bonus or vice versa and you just eat meat or sushi to compensate where you are if your not in the sweet spot?

On the plus size now that I know where the "un-nerf" occurred I can find the "nerf" which will hopefully be more specific. Reading the kazham forums apparently this is when rangers started to melee again.

Edit: Found it and its got squat ><.

The damage and accuracy of a player’s ranged attack are now calculated based on the distance of the player from the monster. This determination varies from weapon to weapon, as does the ideal distance for maximum damage. In addition, the higher the monster’s level is with regard to the player, the less damage will be dealt with a ranged attack.

[Armando]

Re: ranged attack and melee.

Didn't they add ranged attack messages to indicate how off you are?

[Malacite]

Re: ranged attack and melee.

Yes they did.

There's the regular old message, then when you're getting close you will hit the mob "Squarely" and when you're in the sweet spot you "pummel" it.

[Militis]

Re: ranged attack and melee.

I know this topic is a bit old, I am just putting this in there for if anyone reads this later on looking for some information.

Being a Ranger, as my main job, I know all about Ranged Attacking and it's many forms. And as per LeonstrifeLEV's theory on Ranged Attacking complimenting auto attacking, there is only one instance I have known this to be feasible. That is Throwing weapons.

The problem with Crossbows, Bows, and Guns, is their optimum range is out of melee range. However the optimum range for Throwing weapons IS melee range. Now keep in mind your job not only needs to be able to use Throwing weapons, but should also be able to hold it's own in close quarters. That being said it is recommended only for two jobs. Thief and Ninja. This makes sense when you take into fact that this is exactly what Ninja's were meant to do and thus their A- skill in Throwing and Katana.

[Takelli]

Re: ranged attack and melee.

This makes sense when you take into fact that this is exactly what Ninja's were meant to do and thus their A- skill in Throwing and Katana.

That may be so, but throwing weapons for ninja are insainly expensive, as well as VERY hard to come by. Only way to actually get any is if you where to actually make them your self. And even then, it is still quite costly.

If the prices where to drop, and it became more common for ninja to use them, then ninja could tank better, and become VERY great DDs as well, mainly since ninja throwing weapons have the highest DPS.