Magic Def. Bonus vs Magic damage taken -x%

[Sekighara]

Ok well I was looking over the newer gear and with the iron ram set it possible to get up to +34 as a pld. But on the other side of the spectrum Magic damage taken -30% is the max the max not including the aegis. Now I am not expecting someone to go full magic defense against most HNM and events because most things still hit like trucks even when they are spell casters. But I was wondering is Magic def. bonus only better then magic damage taken when both are low quanity such as magic def bonus +5 and magic damage take -5% or is magic def bonus capable of standing up at high quanity? I know with the aegis that is a wooping -55% to damage which I can see saving you from one shot of any spell besides AVs and PMs but can that defense drop spells down to reasonable damage of big spells like AMs as well or is it a garbage stat?. I can't seem to find any testing on magic defenses besides stats which is mostly used to determine spell damage from a player to a mob so there is no set equation for 1 def is damage - X. For that same fact I can't seem to find it for elemental resist either does anyone know a link or have any theories?

[Armando]

Re: Magic Def. Bonus vs Magic damage taken -x%

Organize/separate your sentences/thoughts/questions better. It's hard to follow.

Magic Damage Taken -X% works a straight multiplier. It goes without saying that Magic Damage Taken -13% means you take 13% less damage from any spell; or looking at it in a different way, you take 87% of the spell's full damage instead of 100%. Bear in mind that Shell spells give -MDT, despite the description saying the spell increases magic defense. SE fails at descriptions that way.

Magic Defense Bonus, on the other hand, works as a divisor. MDB+17 means that you take 1/1.17 = 0.8547 = 85.47% of the spell's full damage. In other words, the spell's damage is reduced by 14.53%. Because it works as a divisor, the damage is always reduced by an amount smaller than the MDB number (e.g. in this case damage was only reduced 14.53% instead of 17%.) As the amount of MDB goes up, the losses become greater. For example, having 50 MDB results in spell damage being reduced by only 33.33%. At very low quantities MDB is almost equivalent to -MDT, but as you get more of it, it starts to lose worth.

Besides that, in practice, the cap on Magic Damage Taken -X% is 23% because the cap is 50%, but Shell spells count as -MDT and fully merited Shellra V is 27%. Also, MDB does not work on every kind of magic damage. It won't guard against Skillchain damage, Breath attacks, or just about any other magic of damage that isn't affected by Magic Attack Bonus to begin with. Magic Damage Taken -X% is pretty universal.

Elemental Resistance does not have anything to do with the damage calculations, it simply increases your chances of resisting magic of that element. It's very likely that elemental resistance is the opposite stat to magic skills and magic accuracy, but how they're checked against each other to determine the probabilities is unclear.

[Malacite]

Re: Magic Def. Bonus vs Magic damage taken -x%

Besides that, in practice, the cap on Magic Damage Taken -X% is 23% because the cap is 50%, but Shell spells count as -MDT and fully merited Shellra V is 27%. Also, MDB does not work on every kind of magic damage. It won't guard against Skillchain damage, Breath attacks, or just about any other magic of damage that isn't affected by Magic Attack Bonus to begin with. Magic Damage Taken -X% is pretty universal.

You sure? Okay yes, I'm not a75 PLD but I have read a lot of conflicting info over at BG stating that the two are separate and stack together. Magic Damge Reduced caps at 50% (Aegis + Shellra 5 caps you) but that MDB can be stacked on top of that to further lower damage taken. That's what I've read anyway.

[Sekighara]

Re: Magic Def. Bonus vs Magic damage taken -x%

Thank you sorry for the unclear question. So if building an anti magic swap magic damage taken would be the better choice plus coral earrings are really good in general. Thank you again Armando.

[Armando]

Re: Magic Def. Bonus vs Magic damage taken -x%

Okay yes, I'm not a75 PLD but I have read a lot of conflicting info over at BG stating that the two are separate and stack together.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. They are indeed separate and both can apply at the same time. What I was pointing out, though, is that MDB won't protect you against things that are unaffected by MAB (Skillchains, Breaths, Drain, and whatever else.)

Thank you sorry for the unclear question. So if building an anti magic swap magic damage taken would be the better choice plus coral earrings are really good in general. Thank you again Armando.

Right. Always choose -MDT unless the MDB for that slot comes in a larger amount. E.g. Always pick Magic Damage Taken -3% over Magic Defense Bonus +3, but Magic Defense Bonus +6 is better than MDT-3%. Unfortunately large chunks of MDB are practically impossible to come by outside of the Iron Ram armor set.

[Karinya]

Re: Magic Def. Bonus vs Magic damage taken -x%

Besides that, in practice, the cap on Magic Damage Taken -X% is 23% because the cap is 50%, but Shell spells count as -MDT and fully merited Shellra V is 27%.

In my experience, hardly anyone has fully merited Shellra V, and sometimes you are lucky to get any Shellra V at all. I've done (lowman) limbus runs with 0 WHM. So I wouldn't say in practice the cap is 23.

The minimum Shell you can *rely* on having is Shell III, because you can cast it yourself. (Actually, in a sufficiently dispel-spammy fight you can't even rely on that staying up.) Shell III is about 19%, so up to 31% of -MDT gear could be useful in situations where you don't have a RDM, SCH, or WHM at all (e.g. soloing and Campaign).

Usually you have at least one of those, so you probably have Shell IV, which gets you to 21%, so up to 29% of gear would be useful.

Level 1 Shellra V (which seems to be what most WHMs have if they have it at all) is 24%, so up to 26% of gear would be useful.

Shining Ruby, if it also counts as -MDT and not MDB, is another 10% which stacks with spells of the Shell family. For sufficiently large attacks that could be very worth it, considering it's cheaper than Cure III and lasts for 3 minutes. (And reduces physical damage too.)

[Malacite]

Re: Magic Def. Bonus vs Magic damage taken -x%

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. They are indeed separate and both can apply at the same time. What I was pointing out, though, is that MDB won't protect you against things that are unaffected by MAB (Skillchains, Breaths, Drain, and whatever else.)

really now? The way you worded it though it was kinda vague, and sounded like you were implying that MDB won't help you if you're already capped on damage reduction (to which I've seen plenty that indicates to the contrary)

Hurray for conflicting information! >,<

---------- Post added at 04:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:08 PM ----------

Unfortunately large chunks of MDB are practically impossible to come by outside of the Iron Ram armor set.

What about Magus Roll? Or is that just a waste of Phantom Roll potential regardless? According to the Wiki with a BLU in the PT it maxes out at a whopping +33 on an XI... that *has* to have an impact.

[Armando]

Re: Magic Def. Bonus vs Magic damage taken -x%

I don't know of any situation where Magus Roll comes in handy over a different roll outside of ACP11. But I don't do endgame so I'm most certainly not the person to ask. It's certainly potent enough to be effective, but having it compete with other rolls for a slot means it's gotta be a situation where you're exposed to a constant stream of painful magic damage (ACP11), or one big unavoidable magic attack that you want to reduce to sub-lethal levels of damage (could be used to try to prevent a OHKO during ToAU44, actually.)

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Magic Def. Bonus vs Magic damage taken -x%

Hurray for reading comprehension! >,<

Fixed.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Magic Def. Bonus vs Magic damage taken -x%

If you have a COR in tank party, it's pretty much guaranteed Evoker's Roll will used. (Even with a RDM for Refresh, a good PLD can always find use for more MP, and who doesn't love double March if there's a BRD?)

Magus Roll or Hunter's Roll (for Atonement PLD) is probably the single best use for the second roll for the PLD/NIN's up front, IMO. Though, in many situations, the alliance may prefer to swap the COR to melee party for two melee rolls, and have the COR do only Evoker's for tank party.

[Malacite]

Re: Magic Def. Bonus vs Magic damage taken -x%

>.> suppose you have a shell with a lot of COR so you can rotate them the way you rotate BRD?

O.o speaking of which what's the max number of rolls you can have active anyway?

[Callisto]

Re: Magic Def. Bonus vs Magic damage taken -x%

I don't know of any situation where Magus Roll comes in handy over a different roll outside of ACP11. But I don't do endgame so I'm most certainly not the person to ask. It's certainly potent enough to be effective, but having it compete with other rolls for a slot means it's gotta be a situation where you're exposed to a constant stream of painful magic damage (ACP11), or one big unavoidable magic attack that you want to reduce to sub-lethal levels of damage (could be used to try to prevent a OHKO during ToAU44, actually.)

Proto-Ultima. Very handy there as he has several magical attacks that get frequent +25% procs from the constant double-Light weather, including Citadel Buster which has 1-shot potential.

Barring Aegis, I've always stuck with the way to go being to gear for 25%~ MDT- first, overshooting capped Shell V a bit gives some wiggle room for individual WHMs, and hell half the time I'm lucky to get Shell IV anyways. From there stack on MDB. I do miss out on a chunk of potential MDB since I don't like swapping in Iron Ram Lance and killing my Atonement/Chivalry TP, but I pull off -24% with +10MDB and really haven't had any troubles with getting walloped magically that I can recall.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Magic Def. Bonus vs Magic damage taken -x%

Proto-Ultima. Very handy there as he has several magical attacks that get frequent +25% procs from the constant double-Light weather, including Citadel Buster which has 1-shot potential.

I've seen a non-Aegis Tarutaru PLD survive Citadel Buster on a regular basis--plenty of time prepare for CBs. (The Holy II afterward is a bit of a worry, though.)

Regardless, taking less damage isn't a bad thing--that roll has its uses.

[Akashimo]

Re: Magic Def. Bonus vs Magic damage taken -x%

Proto-Ultima

Callisto and Armando: This is a relative build I can pull off with what I have at the moment; FFXIGEAR.com Should I either go for -dmt or +mdb instead of +light in the slots that have them?

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Magic Def. Bonus vs Magic damage taken -x%

I doubt Light resist is worth bothering with...