Re: The indefensible SJ for two-handers.
@Armando: Dual Wield's benefits are a disadvantage for most Joyeuse wielding PLD/NIN. Diluting your Joyeuse mojo means fewer Atonement/Spirits/Vorpal/whatever. (The former two are not hurt by Joyeuse's low DMG - or conversely, helped by a high DMG mainhand.) There are damn few swords that I would consider DWing with Joyeuse (especially given that you can't shield block at all without a shield, which also means no Reprisal and no Shield Mastery TP; and no shield bash either; and several shields have +Enmity) - Burtgang, Excalibur, Justice and, uh, I think that's it. Company or some other attainable high DMG mainhand will give you stronger but fewer vorpals and less regular damage - probably a net loss.
DW is unusually weak for PLD because we actually make excellent use of the sub-weapon slot without putting a weapon in it.
As for the thread title and the OP, it's generalizing my point far beyond what I actually said, and coming up with something wrong. Gee, what a surprise. If you find a point of view that can't be exaggerated into stupidity, let me know.
There are some jobs that /NIN is often useful for. There are other jobs that /NIN is only useful when it's insanely broken because the thing you're fighting, while it would normally be dangerous, is horribly gimped by the presence of shadows. DRG, DRK, SAM, and MNK in particular usually fall into the latter category.
I'm not really against some jobs subbing NIN, even routinely (although I think players should be aware of the advantages of other SJs). I *am* against the fights that are ridiculously hard without most or all players going /NIN and/or ridiculously easy with it - the kind of thing Lmnop was pointing out above. Hate bouncing with shadows works way too well in exp/merit against low level enemies - and ToAU introduced swarms of weak enemies that can be profitably hunted even when their level relative to you is quite low. (Probably including the level 55-56 party in the OP.) The result is everything we've seen in the last three years that others on this thread are criticizing as the skill going out of the game (which I agree with, search for some of my old rants if you want).
The 50s seem like awkward levels for DRK - they do enough to be dangerous in hate, but are still too low to /THF and TA their WS onto the tank and improve the hate situation themselves. /NIN is a half-assed solution, but might be better than nothing. I'm only DRK37 so I don't have firsthand experience with DRK in general - which is one reason I only gave an opinion on DRG.
I think we can be pretty confident, though, that if the two DRKs were that close in damage, the /SAM was either undergeared, or holding back. You can't just ignore a difference of 10% haste and +10 acc - even assuming the DRK/NIN managed to benefit from utsusemi without ever casting it during a fight, which would reduce his damage even more. Seeing how much damage the DRK/SAM took, I'd guess he was holding back but not really holding back enough, which put the party in an awkward situation (but you can't completely blame the tank either, necessarily - hate control really is a group responsibility, and colibri are particularly frustrating from a tanking perspective.)
I think it may have been one of the rare parties that actually really needed a THF. But there isn't really enough data to be sure.
@Armando: Dual Wield's benefits are a disadvantage for most Joyeuse wielding PLD/NIN. Diluting your Joyeuse mojo means fewer Atonement/Spirits/Vorpal/whatever. (The former two are not hurt by Joyeuse's low DMG - or conversely, helped by a high DMG mainhand.) There are damn few swords that I would consider DWing with Joyeuse (especially given that you can't shield block at all without a shield, which also means no Reprisal and no Shield Mastery TP; and no shield bash either; and several shields have +Enmity) - Burtgang, Excalibur, Justice and, uh, I think that's it. Company or some other attainable high DMG mainhand will give you stronger but fewer vorpals and less regular damage - probably a net loss.
DW is unusually weak for PLD because we actually make excellent use of the sub-weapon slot without putting a weapon in it.
As for the thread title and the OP, it's generalizing my point far beyond what I actually said, and coming up with something wrong. Gee, what a surprise. If you find a point of view that can't be exaggerated into stupidity, let me know.
There are some jobs that /NIN is often useful for. There are other jobs that /NIN is only useful when it's insanely broken because the thing you're fighting, while it would normally be dangerous, is horribly gimped by the presence of shadows. DRG, DRK, SAM, and MNK in particular usually fall into the latter category.
I'm not really against some jobs subbing NIN, even routinely (although I think players should be aware of the advantages of other SJs). I *am* against the fights that are ridiculously hard without most or all players going /NIN and/or ridiculously easy with it - the kind of thing Lmnop was pointing out above. Hate bouncing with shadows works way too well in exp/merit against low level enemies - and ToAU introduced swarms of weak enemies that can be profitably hunted even when their level relative to you is quite low. (Probably including the level 55-56 party in the OP.) The result is everything we've seen in the last three years that others on this thread are criticizing as the skill going out of the game (which I agree with, search for some of my old rants if you want).
The 50s seem like awkward levels for DRK - they do enough to be dangerous in hate, but are still too low to /THF and TA their WS onto the tank and improve the hate situation themselves. /NIN is a half-assed solution, but might be better than nothing. I'm only DRK37 so I don't have firsthand experience with DRK in general - which is one reason I only gave an opinion on DRG.
I think we can be pretty confident, though, that if the two DRKs were that close in damage, the /SAM was either undergeared, or holding back. You can't just ignore a difference of 10% haste and +10 acc - even assuming the DRK/NIN managed to benefit from utsusemi without ever casting it during a fight, which would reduce his damage even more. Seeing how much damage the DRK/SAM took, I'd guess he was holding back but not really holding back enough, which put the party in an awkward situation (but you can't completely blame the tank either, necessarily - hate control really is a group responsibility, and colibri are particularly frustrating from a tanking perspective.)
I think it may have been one of the rare parties that actually really needed a THF. But there isn't really enough data to be sure.
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