This is sort of a continuation of this thread in the DRG forum; to summarize, I suggested /NIN as a viable support job for DRGs, while other posters say it's inferior in majority of the situation, including the lower level parties I was focusing on in that thread.
The opposing attitude is probably best represented by: (The emphasis is mine.)
In general, though, I see /NIN as a decent choice from Lv.24 and up, when facing unknown pickup up groups, or any party without two cure jobs, and not just for DRG. Other two-handers like WAR and DRK can benefit from more assured damage mitigation.
While I don't think I'll convince anyone from the /SAM camp that /NIN is often good SJ for two-handers--much less a great idea in mystery pick up groups--perhaps I can at least get people to understand what some of us healers have to deal with in pick-up parties, and why I don't mind 'gimping' the DDs with /NIN.
Lv.55->56 synched party:
(Except for RDM, everyone was present for the entire parse; wished it was DRG/SAM or DRG/WAR vs. DRG/NIN, but DRK/SAM vs. DRK/NIN probably illustrate my point even better. I was invited as a replacement for a ... BRD. ._.; )
Cemolie: PLD/WAR
Blade: DRK/NIN
Rikirocket: DRK/SAM
Toraness: SAM/WAR
Yumesan: RDM (original)
Hagitotuuh: RDM (replacement)
Itazura: SCH/WHM
I don't usually check the gears--but, I do check the results, sometimes. And, I check them with a parser. Basically, as a healer/support member in party, the two things I care the most about regarding the front line jobs (and DDs in particular) are:
1) Doing damage?
Blade.......41792...25.87 %
Rikirocket..43698...27.05 %
Toraness....58581...36.26 %
Cemolie....15501.....9.59 %
:: Rikirocket outputs 4.56% more damage than Blade.
2) Taking damage?
Blade.........6299.....8.59 %
Rikirocket...21024....28.69 %
Toraness .....7665....10.46 %
Cemolie .....36190....49.38 %
:: Rikirocket takes 233.77% more damage than Blade.
So, less than 5% damage output difference, but more much, much more in damage taken. Common sense would tell us Blade's /NIN made a large difference to mages' MP reserve, but if there's still reservation, the parser reports that:
Player....Shadows Used..Shadows Cast...Shadows Cast(Nin)...Efficiency
Blade.....139...........168............168.................82.74 %
So, yes, Blade was using of his Shihei supply; he was "under threat" for a good length of time, as his damage output compared to Rikirocket would indicate.
MP was tight even with two healers (AC was gone, by the way), no thanks to the DRK/SAM player; if Blade had not been on 'gimpy' /NIN, chaining would've been even harder. (Chain 3, 9 times; chain 4, 6 times; chain 5, 2 times.)
* * *
Granted, this is just one party, but it's pretty much in line with my experience in general.
Whether you believe MP sponging happens in the majority of pickup up groups I've been in when the DDs go /SAM is up to you, but I'm personally convinced by my experiences with the /NIN players.
* * *
No, the SAM/WAR wasn't an MP sponge--he's one of those rare, even-willing-to-use-defender type; I was pleasantly surprised.
Feel free to claim this is evidence that SAM and /SAM have damage mitigation abilities--I completely agree, and only wish more people would make use of those. (Do keep in mind the party was 55->56, so no Seigan for /SAM, however.)
At the end of the day, when playing as a healer, I don't really care about anything beyond damage dealt and damage taken when it comes to the front line--and, for whatever the reason, /NIN players usually do a better job than /SAM players at the second without doing too poorly at the first, in my own experience. YMMV.
The opposing attitude is probably best represented by: (The emphasis is mine.)
Originally posted by Karinya
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While I don't think I'll convince anyone from the /SAM camp that /NIN is often good SJ for two-handers--much less a great idea in mystery pick up groups--perhaps I can at least get people to understand what some of us healers have to deal with in pick-up parties, and why I don't mind 'gimping' the DDs with /NIN.
Lv.55->56 synched party:
(Except for RDM, everyone was present for the entire parse; wished it was DRG/SAM or DRG/WAR vs. DRG/NIN, but DRK/SAM vs. DRK/NIN probably illustrate my point even better. I was invited as a replacement for a ... BRD. ._.; )
Cemolie: PLD/WAR
Blade: DRK/NIN
Rikirocket: DRK/SAM
Toraness: SAM/WAR
Yumesan: RDM (original)
Hagitotuuh: RDM (replacement)
Itazura: SCH/WHM
I don't usually check the gears--but, I do check the results, sometimes. And, I check them with a parser. Basically, as a healer/support member in party, the two things I care the most about regarding the front line jobs (and DDs in particular) are:
1) Doing damage?
Blade.......41792...25.87 %
Rikirocket..43698...27.05 %
Toraness....58581...36.26 %
Cemolie....15501.....9.59 %
:: Rikirocket outputs 4.56% more damage than Blade.
2) Taking damage?
Blade.........6299.....8.59 %
Rikirocket...21024....28.69 %
Toraness .....7665....10.46 %
Cemolie .....36190....49.38 %
:: Rikirocket takes 233.77% more damage than Blade.
So, less than 5% damage output difference, but more much, much more in damage taken. Common sense would tell us Blade's /NIN made a large difference to mages' MP reserve, but if there's still reservation, the parser reports that:
Player....Shadows Used..Shadows Cast...Shadows Cast(Nin)...Efficiency
Blade.....139...........168............168.................82.74 %
So, yes, Blade was using of his Shihei supply; he was "under threat" for a good length of time, as his damage output compared to Rikirocket would indicate.
MP was tight even with two healers (AC was gone, by the way), no thanks to the DRK/SAM player; if Blade had not been on 'gimpy' /NIN, chaining would've been even harder. (Chain 3, 9 times; chain 4, 6 times; chain 5, 2 times.)
* * *
Granted, this is just one party, but it's pretty much in line with my experience in general.
Whether you believe MP sponging happens in the majority of pickup up groups I've been in when the DDs go /SAM is up to you, but I'm personally convinced by my experiences with the /NIN players.
* * *
No, the SAM/WAR wasn't an MP sponge--he's one of those rare, even-willing-to-use-defender type; I was pleasantly surprised.
Feel free to claim this is evidence that SAM and /SAM have damage mitigation abilities--I completely agree, and only wish more people would make use of those. (Do keep in mind the party was 55->56, so no Seigan for /SAM, however.)
At the end of the day, when playing as a healer, I don't really care about anything beyond damage dealt and damage taken when it comes to the front line--and, for whatever the reason, /NIN players usually do a better job than /SAM players at the second without doing too poorly at the first, in my own experience. YMMV.
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