Rare Piece Dynamis Lotting Methodology

[Sabaron]

Re: Rare Piece Dynamis Lotting Methodology

Can you explain what exactly comment means? I'm worried it might be something really simple and I'm completely missing it.

To "comment" means to designate that you wish to receive a given shadow item (e.g. Shadow Ring) as your piece for the run in a similar manner as designating a particular relic armor piece. The term "comment" comes from the use of the /seacom command to place the item you wish to lot on in your Search Comment.

I don't quite understand the point system either. I think I understand that the more jobs you have at 75 means more points you're able to accumulate, but are those points spent?

No, Ninja and Paladin are Tank jobs. Having either tank job at 75 gives you 5 more cap points. Other (non-tank) jobs don't count toward the cap. Points are only "spent" if you obtain a Shadow Item and you go down to -5 points rather than at 0 points. This means that any fresh noobs will be in line before someone who just received a shadow item.

Do you spend points to lot, or do you prevent others from lotting by simply having more points than them?

5. A player is eligible to "comment" a shadow item if no player with a higher point total wishes to comment the same item.
Receiving a given shadow item reduces a player's Score to -5.
You spend points upon acquisition of the item. Having points prevents others from lotting the item if they have fewer points than you. If Fred has 10 points and John has 8, and both want the Shadow Mantle, John is ineligible to "comment" the Shadow Mantle because Fred has more points than he does. Of course, if Tim has 10 points, too, then both he and Fred may lot Shadow Mantle because they have the same number of points. The rules are much simpler than you're making them seem.

And are players really only able to lot on one item, if it drops, after being required to call out which item it is?

4. In order to be eligible to receive a given item, it must be selected in exclusion to all other drops available on the run such as relic armor.
Precisely, you may choose only mantle or ring and you must choose in advance.

People have brought up a lot of good points in this thread. I still think the fate of the LS as a whole should be considered when allotting equipment.

Benefit to the LS is integrated into this method as best as possible without introducing subjectivity. If you would like, you can try to develop a metric based on the concept of "the fate of the LS", but I think you'll have a hard time quantifying it.

My feeling is that if you can't in some way quantify or qualify an item rationally, it's probably not fair. Once you have quantified/qualified it, some sort of mathematical operation is applied to it and it is then used to rank or determine eligibility of a given member.

"Benefit to the LS" sort of implies that the recipient of the given item is thereafter bound to contractual service to the LS for an unspecified period of time after they receive the item. This cannot be adjudicated within the scope of the FFXI game system. The easiest way to integrate this is to quantify the "dedication" of an individual to the LS by counting the number of runs they attend against the number they miss. This is accounted for in the metrics used.

Since the primary metric is a measure of "dedication", this allows for a scenario like this:

Bill is the White Mage for the Main Tank party, but he brings his PLD75 on occasion for Dynamis runs as a secondary tank. He has a cap of 10. Farris has both PLD75 and NIN75 and always comes to Dynamis as PLD, occasionally as main tank and has a cap of 15. Bill has only missed 3 runs out of the last 10 and has 4 points. Farris made just enough of the runs to keep eligible, 6 out of 10, and frequently skips city runs so she only has 2 points. Bill is therefore ahead of Farris in terms of lotting rights on shadow gear even though Farris "main tanks" and Bill is a "main healer". Farris has a higher "potential", but it requires more "dedication" to live up to it, so if Farris showed greater dedication than Bill, she would be able to beat him on points because Bill can't have more than 10 and Farris can have up to 15.

Keep in mind, however, that the intent of the thread itself is (as titled) a methodology or study of methods. Which means that what I would like to see would be a point system that you feel is fair (and further discussion on why you think it is good, of course). If there is only one method to discuss, then it's really not a methodology.

[Rodin]

Re: Rare Piece Dynamis Lotting Methodology

TBH, a lot of this is confusing. Wouldn't it be easier to have it like....

Shadow Items:

Must be able to equip immediately on a TANK job for priority lot.

Must have a previous attendance record of at least 10 Dynamis runs (to prevent people from joining and leaving, or not coming at all).

In the event that every tank job has the item, and a drop occurs, bids will be taken. Item will then be awarded to the highest bidder. (Using their points).

The items are really best for Paladins...it's occasionally useful for NIN, but IMO for NIN Cerb (or +1 if you're lucky) is much better. The only thing Shadow Mantle would be good for on NIN is to macro it in when your shadows are down. The ring however is very good for both (since NINs will occasionally get hit with -ga spells)

To be honest, to prevent fighting inside your LS when the actual item drops, it would be a good idea to keep the rules simple. Cause (as you can see from the dunes), not everybody in this game is very intelligent. And TBH, Dynamis isn't that hard of a concept to grasp. BLMS Sleepga, Nuke Statues, Melees kill mobs, wash, rinse, repeat. Take out the random "Oooh...Ahhhh" when AF2 drops. And that's Dynamis.

Shadow Lord really isn't hard as long as you have competent RDM/DRKs, and enough Zerg jobs to take him down fast enough.

[Sabaron]

Re: Rare Piece Dynamis Lotting Methodology

TBH, a lot of this is confusing. Wouldn't it be easier to have it like....

Shadow Items:

Must be able to equip immediately on a TANK job for priority lot.

Must have a previous attendance record of at least 10 Dynamis runs (to prevent people from joining and leaving, or not coming at all).

In the event that every tank job has the item, and a drop occurs, bids will be taken. Item will then be awarded to the highest bidder. (Using their points).

How are you calculating the "points" though? Determination of the point system is the question I'm trying to answer. Straight attendance points with bidding is a system that favors old players (who as TGM pointed out may be losing interest in Dynamis and/or FFXI in general) and gives newer players virtually no hope of getting the items, but it's a possibility. Keep in mind that there is already a system in place for lotting of relic gear so the system will be used exclusively for items like Shadow Ring/Mantle or possibly Xarc drops in general.

[Rodin]

Re: Rare Piece Dynamis Lotting Methodology

Well, my LS just uses the points for AF for the points for the Shadow Items.

It's true that a points system like that favors the old members, but people are always leveling new jobs in my LS. That's what keeps them coming. And the new members should continue coming anyways. It's not like AF in the cities is a rare thing anymore. My LS always gets ~10-15 AF per city run. That's usually enough to keep the new players coming back, and gives the old players their choice of AF quickly.

Xarc is a different story tho. There's almost never any AF that drops there, even tho 9/10 times, it's the best AF for the job.

Beaucedine is ok tho, most AF we've gotten per run is 13.

Just make sure you keep the Shadow Items exclusive to (main) tank jobs, and you shouldn't have a problem. Let other members lot them only when all your tanks have them.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Rare Piece Dynamis Lotting Methodology

I've been in three linkshells that do Dynamis, one of which is my current shell and all points are merged so it's not Dynamis-specific as far as points go, but I'll detail the lotting rules of both of the actual Dynamis shells I've been in.

Shell 1:
Points: Maximum 3 points per run, with the exception of Dynamis Lord kills
-- One point for being on time. On time is in linkshell and at the markings before entry.
-- One point for staying through the Mega Boss kill.
-- One point for staying to the end of the run.
-- (Xarc only) One point for Dynamis Lord kill. (This may have been two points, I can't remember)
-- Tuesday and Saturday points were separate.

Lotting:
-- City AF is "free lot." Before the run starts, you must put in your search comment which piece you would like to lot, and the job you are commenting must be 40+. Otherwise, your comment should say "none" or "points." If that piece drops, anyone in the linkshell who has commented that piece will be given the opportunity to lot, highest lot wins.
-- Any uncommented AF will start at "free lot" 70+, counted down in increments of 10 levels, and if no one lots, will be autosorted.
-- If a player lots a piece that went free lot, he/she is not allowed to lot another free lot piece for the rest of the run. Autosort does not count, obviously.
-- Icelands AF is 15 points. No comments are set prior to the run. If a piece drops and you want it, you are to send the ls leader a /tell. Person with highest points will be told to lot.
-- Only one Icelands piece per run, not counting autosort.
-- You must be 70+ in that job to lot it. If no players 70+ send a tell to the leader, he will lower the requirement in increments of 10.
-- Shadow items: points are counted on a "total earned" basis, meaning that raw points not counting what has been spent, are what determines who gets the item. Basically, it shows who has attended the most runs without coming late/leaving early. The Shadow item costs 30 points, and if you receive one on Tuesday, you may never get the other shadow item on Tuesday, but only on Saturday. Job is not a factor.

PROS:
--Easy to get city AF
--People with a lot of points can not loot whore Icelands AF
--People with a lot of points will be set back a bit so that others can get items.
--People are encouraged to be on time in order to receive full points, and lotting priority.
--People who had to work or otherwise could only make one run per week would still be able to have lotting priority on the day they are always able to attend.

CONS:
--People with multiple jobs and who are newer to the shell will have difficulty getting items over people who have been in the shell longer. (Meaning, point spreads were often very high)
--Shadow items are not given to people based on job priority.

Shell 2:
Points:
--Members receive one point per run. Points were taken 45 minutes into the run, and if you were not in the zone at the time points are taken, you do not receive a point, except in cases of disconnecting.
--Attendance was required if you were in game. If you were seen in game doing something else during Dynamis, it was -1.
--There were three types of points: Job Points, Stored Points, and Total Points.
------ Job Points: Points toward your current job that you "declare." Current job determines your AF priority.
------ Stored Points: Where your "job points" go when you change your declared job to a different one. This is to prevent someone with a ton of points on one job from just jumping to another job and outlotting someone who had been waiting in line for that job's AF longer.
------ Total Points: Job Points + Stored Points.
-- When you start with a new Main Job, your Job Points are reset to 0, and your previous Job Points go into stored points, though switching main jobs requires paying some points based on the AF received while on that job.

Lotting:
-- People with their main job set have priority on a piece that drops. If no one has that job set as their main job, the leader will start the piece at 70+.
-- City AF costs are as follows:
------ Main job: 2 points, taken from Job Points
------ Off-main job: 1 point, taken from Stored Points.
-- Icelands AF costs are as follows:
------ Main job: 5 points, taken from Job Points
------ Off-main job: 3 points, taken from Stored Points.
-- Only time people without a job declared may lot on a piece is when no one else has that job set as their main, or if someone who would be lotting on a Main Job piece would go into negative.
-- If you can not pay for the AF, you may not lot.
-- No restriction is placed on how many pieces of AF you may get if you have the points to pay for them all.
-- You may not go into negative points to lot a piece. If you do not have enough Job Points, then points will be taken from your Stored points.
-- Shadow items are lotted based on Total points, and taken from Stored points. Job is not a factor.
-- No item is free lot/autosort. If a piece goes from 70+ all the way down to 0+ and no one wants it, the leader (or a sackholder) will lot the piece and toss it, trashing it.

PROS:
-- People who showed up got rewarded and skipping was penalized.
-- It was very easy to obtain AF if you had multiple jobs, as long as you had the points.
-- There is a safeguard in place so that people can not just jump from job to job and start lotting over people who have been waiting.

CONS:
-- There is no real incentive to show up on time or stay the entire run. Force d/cing was common and there was no penalty for it.
-- Lootwhoring was common, if you had the jobs and the points for the items.
-- No job priority is placed on shadow items


Okay my brain hurts from typing all of this out. There are plenty of lotting rules in my LS but everything is based off of one huge DKP system that counts everything we do, so trying to write down "Dynamis" lotting rules is kinda pointless because they're all inclusive.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Rare Piece Dynamis Lotting Methodology

I've never been in a points based shell. It's interesting to read how other shells handle stuff like this though.