Guide: Melee stats for dummies.

[Vyuru]

Re: Guide: Melee stats for dummies.

Actually there's something I'd like to know.

Could you include a section about how Haste affects spells? I be fuzzy on that. Plus we have enough melee mages that I think it counts in the melee topic
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I should say, spells and recast timers.

[Malacite]

Re: Guide: Melee stats for dummies.

It should also be noted there's different types of haste with different caps.

Job Haste: Caps at 25% total and does not affect recasts (Hasso does increase recasts for having it active though by 50%)

- Hasso (10%)
- Haste Samba (5%, can be merited up to 10)
- Desperate Blows (trait that works with Last Resort, 5% per merit caps 25%)

Equipment Haste: Caps at 25% (few jobs can reach this cap)

Magic Haste: Affects both attack speed and spell timers

- Haste/Hastega 15%
- Refueling (10~12% I believe?)
- Advancing March (7%, can be increased by up to 2% with instruments)
- Victory March (9%, see above)
- Soul Voice doubles march songs after applying instrument bonus.


Oh and spell recast timers (including abilities like fast cast and grimoire) cap at 50%

[LilithAngel]

Re: Guide: Melee stats for dummies.

Refueling is a flat 10%. 5 minutes of that versus 3 minutes of normal Haste's 15%.

Which does bring up a question that I've had for a long time, but just never did the math for:

Which version will get you more overall, Haste or Refueling? Assume a delay of 236 (the Kilij/Slayer weapons for BLU), both single and dual wield (with and without Suppanomimi). It's a question I and probably every other Blue Mage would like to know.

[Firewind]

Re: Guide: Melee stats for dummies.

It depends on the attitude of the BLU in question. If they have the attitude towards haste that the usual ten a penny SAM on my server has you are gimp if you don't have haste up on them 24/7 even when they can self haste.

Most BLUs I've ran into are aware of the difference and usually don't care what type of haste they get. Honestly it's situational. I'm fairly sure that something like a BLU/WHM would benefit more from haste due to the extra 5% effecting spell recast timers while a BLU/NIN would probably be better of refuelling taking into account Dual Wield II

[Nuriko]

Re: Guide: Melee stats for dummies.

I'd say it depends more on the mage casting haste, and how many people they have in the rotation. 15% Haste is better than 10% Refueling, IF you can count on it being there most of the time.

Also, about the original post, I was wondering just where the mob defense and evasion values are to be found ... and if it might be noting just what the high/low defense/evasion notes on /check mean.

One other thing is the importance of a cRatio of at least .6 in regards to TP gain, as that seems to be the value at which the lower damage limit crosses from negative to positive...

[Callisto]

Re: Guide: Melee stats for dummies.

Just a note Armando, I think it'd be good to have some sort of qualifying statement regarding Haste vs. Acc even though that's a pretty situational deal, but something along the lines of explaining that while Haste is very good and adding more just makes it better, there is a certain point where losing enough hit rate for Haste actually is not beneficial, i.e. when you're sitting at 75% hit rate, wearing 20% Haste in gear but not getting Haste/March cast on you, it's probably better to go with the Acc build.

I can't remember off the top of my head, but I would say for just making broad generalizations I think that sitting around 80-85%~ hit rate while in full-on Haste gear(not counting Blitz Ring vs. Acc rings, Quick Belt vs. Light etc) is where Haste builds pull ahead of Acc builds.

Great so far, just don't want it to lead to a bunch of newer players with crappy Accuracy to switch from TPing in STR to TPing in Haste and whiff very quickly instead of whiffing very hard.
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Actually there's something I'd like to know.

Could you include a section about how Haste affects spells? I be fuzzy on that. Plus we have enough melee mages that I think it counts in the melee topic
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I should say, spells and recast timers.

To the best of my knowledge(info/testing courtesy of Kirschy @ BG) it works as follows:

Haste is applied first to recast as a straight % reduction, rounding to the tenths place, then Fast Cast is applied as a % reduction to that, then the recast timer is rounded down to the nearest whole second(I believe it is rounded down, it might be up though, could use confirmation there).

Formula looks like:

New Recast = floor( [1-Fast Cast] * ( [1-Haste] * Recast ) )
(Round to the 10ths place after each step.).

Haste DOES NOT affect actual casting time, only recasts.

[Armando]

Re: Guide: Melee stats for dummies.

WS section is up.

Just a note Armando, I think it'd be good to have some sort of qualifying statement regarding Haste vs. Acc even though that's a pretty situational deal, but something along the lines of explaining that while Haste is very good and adding more just makes it better, there is a certain point where losing enough hit rate for Haste actually is not beneficial, i.e. when you're sitting at 75% hit rate, wearing 20% Haste in gear but not getting Haste/March cast on you, it's probably better to go with the Acc build.

I agree, it needs to be touched upon. I'll get to that when I post my all-inclusive formula thing (I'm explaining all parts more or less in a vacuum so I don't have to post a massive wall of text explaining everything once I get to the formula, and can instead just focus on how each affects your performance and how to do comparisons between them.

By popular demand I'll be revamping the Haste section to be more complete soon, along with the Dual Wield section.

[Callisto]

Re: Guide: Melee stats for dummies.

Might also want to include a small blurb regarding the role Sea Gorgets play in WS since that's like the #1 FAQ regarding general WS stuffs in my experiences.

[Celeal]

Re: Guide: Melee stats for dummies.

Great guide, as always ^^b

For completeness, I suggest to include Hand-to-Hand damage calculation and the weapon delay + Martial Art job trait.

[Callisto]

Re: Guide: Melee stats for dummies.

Hand-to-hand is Martian moon-babble in my experiences, just put a Magic Eye image or something in the spoiler box for that.
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However, it's of critical importance to understand that fTP only applies to the first hit of a WS. fTP is always 1.0 on every other hit, including extra hits from Dual Wield and Double Attack.

I gotta ask Armando, you have a source on this? This part is actually news to me.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Guide: Melee stats for dummies.

Hand-to-hand is Martian moon-babble in my experiences,

By any chance, which one are we talking about? If it's Phobotian babble, I might be able to make heads-or-tails of it, but if it's Deimotian babble? Forget about it!

[Callisto]

Re: Guide: Melee stats for dummies.

Those jerks from Deimos are worse than Bostoners, I swear.

[Vyuru]

Re: Guide: Melee stats for dummies.

To the best of my knowledge(info/testing courtesy of Kirschy @ BG) it works as follows:

Haste is applied first to recast as a straight % reduction, rounding to the tenths place, then Fast Cast is applied as a % reduction to that, then the recast timer is rounded down to the nearest whole second(I believe it is rounded down, it might be up though, could use confirmation there).

Formula looks like:

Quote:
New Recast = floor( [1-Fast Cast] * ( [1-Haste] * Recast ) )
(Round to the 10ths place after each step.).

Haste DOES NOT affect actual casting time, only recasts.

So let's take MP Drainkiss which has a recast of 90 seconds.

Assuming a Swift Belt and Refueling, which gives a total of 14% haste, then it would be:

floor( [1-0] * ( [1-0.14] * 90 ) )

floor(77.4)

What is the floor? I don't fully understand what she means by that.

[Armando]

Re: Guide: Melee stats for dummies.

Floor( ) means to drop all decimals.

[Vyuru]

Re: Guide: Melee stats for dummies.

So then a spell that normally has a recast delay of 90 seconds would have a recast of, let's just round up to 78 seconds with 14% haste.

Is that correct?