Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

[Vyuru]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

Why would I be pulling with Pebbles as a Dragoon when I can pull with a Chakram? >.>

Will I be the dedicated puller even though I have a decent pulling weapon?

Heck no!

fact is lots of times parties wont have a defacto puller, because there are none.

I have yet to find an instance where one of these jobs was not LFG: Warrior, Thief, Ranger, Corsair, Bard or Sam/Rng.

I notice alot of the time plaers no longer respecet the party by finding a replacement, when im the leader i find it really irritating because it becomes my issue to find a replacement. No matter what the excuse is you have to leave right away blah blah blah players can always take the 30's logout to find a rep and send him to you or tll the leader i asked so and so.

Depending on the amount of people on, the day, the star's alignment, it can take far longer to find a replacement than 30 seconds, especially with all the AFK people LFG lately.

Also, unless they bring in someone who is an identical job/subjob combo, and in some cases identical level, I am easily offended by people replacing themselves without asking me first.

I, not you, am the party leader.
I, not you, have a specific plan for this party.
I, not you, will decide who, what, and when to invite to the party.

If you do not like that then form your own party. I will not tolerate backseat party leaders who, after I invite them, proceed to tell me who I HAVE to invite and where I HAVE to go with the party. I will accept suggestions, I don't take orders from someone too lazy to form their own party and who will not take responsibility for if/when the party goes bad.

Back to the people getting their own replacements thing. It is always best to tell the party leader something like, "Hey, I need to leave in about 30 minutes, do you want to find a replacement for me or shall I?" This gives the leader a chance to find out how long the other people will be staying, and it gives him the option of having you look or looking himself.

I have had far to many key jobs replace themselves with something idiotic, like a Whm replacing themselves with a Warrior or something equally stupid. That is unacceptable to me. If you are going to replace yourself at least get someone who can fit your role in the party.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

A lot of players no longer respect replacing themselves because very few JP players respected it to start with and just leave when they damn well please. Its a western courtesty and always has been, JP players usually only observe it when the MMO and the majority of its player base isn't on thier home turf. Switch to WoW or EQ and they suddenly replace themselves, know english and will seek out and request help from the english speaking player.

But for me, unless I'm playing a DD, replacing myself is an absolute nightmare. Forget finding a RDM or BRD to replace me when I leave as BRD or COR, I'm not going to find one cuz well over half of the primadonnas are AFK or just pretending to be.

[Karinya]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

/shrug, think what you want, doesn't mean RNG and COR or even THF are defacto pullers.

True, what I think doesn't make them de facto pullers. How the majority of players play the game makes them de facto pullers, the same way it makes SMN a de facto healer/support and NIN a de facto tank. Some people are unhappy with each of those roles, too. But if they show up to a party they expect to play it according to what is needed by the party, which is often not pure DD.

I can honestly tell you as a COR PTs that invite me to pull have no chance of getting Corsair's Roll.

So what? Screw corsair's roll, it's like 5% anyway. A good puller is worth more than that.

There are plenty of RNGs that don't pull and object to it given what other jobs are present it should only be a last resort, not a point or which they're invited.

I've never actually seen this attitude from a RNG ingame - only from you on these forums. I don't notice any other rangers showing up to agree with you, either. (Maybe they just haven't noticed the thread, though. Want to check the RNG forums for threads on pulling and see how many RNGs think it should be someone else's job?)

Being ask to pull as BRD is irksome because it diminishes thier focus on buffing and its fostered the creation of several piss-poor BRDs.

Players' willingness to accept, not boot and even invite back piss-poor BRDs has a lot more to do with that (the same as it did for RDM).

That, in turn, comes from the fact that BRD is extremely overpowered in party play - even a piss-poor BRD is better than almost any other job, skilled and well equipped, in the same party slot. You have to get into truly horrible BRD territory before replacing them with anything but another BRD (or maybe COR, but they're ultra-rare) will actually improve your exp/hr. Even two-BRD parties can rarely replace *one* bard and perform better. (Manaburns excepted.)

BST/NIN with pet and Bow could be best puller ever, why doesn't anyone invite them? Shadows, Pets, Snarl - sounds perfect, really. Never happens.

Um, maybe because BST never, ever, ever look for parties? In my entire time playing FFXI the number of BST I have seen with their lfp flag up can be counted on one hand. If they're soloing anyway it wouldn't cost them anything to solo with flag up - but they don't. You can argue about why, but clearly it's the BSTs that don't want parties and not vice versa. Seeing a BST that actually wants to join a party is rarer than seeing King Behemoth unclaimed.

[MrMageo]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

Um, maybe because BST never, ever, ever look for parties? In my entire time playing FFXI the number of BST I have seen with their lfp flag up can be counted on one hand. If they're soloing anyway it wouldn't cost them anything to solo with flag up - but they don't. You can argue about why, but clearly it's the BSTs that don't want parties and not vice versa. Seeing a BST that actually wants to join a party is rarer than seeing King Behemoth unclaimed.

Acctually up till a short time ago BST was not invited to party because the pet would cut into XP, now BST is considered a solo job because of it(also most players still do not know that pets no longer affect XP). I personally invite BST's often to parties now because they bring another weapon to fihgt with. They fall into the anon/not seeking section of this guide ftr. To this date i have never known a BST to turn down an invite to a party except in rare circumstances.

Such as, More often than not, players now lvl BST so they can solo and not deal with PT situations. When i level BST i do it because i get 100% of the drops, its a goldmine job for beast seals, crystals and random junk that usually gets spread through a 6 person party. It also allows me to escae the BS that comes with a party, downtime, replacing members, stupid players etc, etc, etc. Which is the reason they run around flagless and/or anon.

Im sure if you took the time to ask a BST if they wanted to party, they will accept, the fact is, people still over look them. If a MNK or a BST was seeking, 99% of the time the MNK will get the invite because its a proven PT member. Most players have never seen a BST in a party situation and dont know what they bring to the table.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

True, what I think doesn't make them de facto pullers. How the majority of players play the game makes them de facto pullers, the same way it makes SMN a de facto healer/support and NIN a de facto tank. Some people are unhappy with each of those roles, too. But if they show up to a party they expect to play it according to what is needed by the party, which is often not pure DD.

Difference - I pay for my EXP. Each kill, each fight. SMN doesn't do that, PLD doesn't do that. Only other classes that really do that are BST, PUP, THF and NIN. The rest of you buy armor and replace it or sit on your butts to get MP back and spend paltry amounts on food. SMN avatar melee and RDM DD is too weak to be worthwhile in a EXP PT, which is why they're relegated to the roles they have. Mine isn't.

Just as time is money, EXP is gil to me - I get what I want or I keep on seeking. I owe the PT no role but the one I choose for myself.

So what? Screw corsair's roll, it's like 5% anyway. A good puller is worth more than that.

You seem to enjoy being wrong lately. At worst, its 10% and often, its a lot better than that. Sanction is 10%. I only use it if I'm placed in situations where I get what I want (i.e. not pulling or /WHM in merit) or I'm PTing with jobs that aren't invited to merits often, they died and we can still EXP without them we're or doing endgame/mission farming - that's about as altruistic as I get about Corsair's Roll, otherwise it's a gimmick to me.

I've never actually seen this attitude from a RNG ingame - only from you on these forums. I don't notice any other rangers showing up to agree with you, either. (Maybe they just haven't noticed the thread, though. Want to check the RNG forums for threads on pulling and see how many RNGs think it should be someone else's job?)

You clearly don't know RNGs then.

High Delay Weapon + Competitive Camp = Like hell I'm pulling. That's common knowledge in COR and RNG circles. We've been over this, person with the lowest delay weapon wins. That said, don't expect RNGs to start camping Loxley Bow just to be a puller. Again, we come to DD and the DD bows have high delay. Even with Velocity Shot now, there are pullers with lower delay. Only COR gets a passable low delay gun at 72 for EXP and most don't want to use Peacemaker to DD, its a pull-only gun and guess what we're not doing if we're using that?.

Players' willingness to accept, not boot and even invite back piss-poor BRDs has a lot more to do with that (the same as it did for RDM).

Actually, no, it doesn't. Its very hard to maintain a two-minute duration buff and meet a PTs chain # wants. Perhaps its easier at lower levels, but in merit camps these days, buffs have to fall to the wayside for high chain numbers. That's why SE is giving the job more to do

Um, maybe because BST never, ever, ever look for parties? In my entire time playing FFXI the number of BST I have seen with their lfp flag up can be counted on one hand. If they're soloing anyway it wouldn't cost them anything to solo with flag up - but they don't. You can argue about why, but clearly it's the BSTs that don't want parties and not vice versa. Seeing a BST that actually wants to join a party is rarer than seeing King Behemoth unclaimed.

False, I see BSTs commonly seek PTs, your server =/= reality. Even moreso these days with the penaltys removed and Snarl being an actual PT asset. I've gotten three PT invites in 66 levels, two unsolicited, guess how many hours of seeking with our flags up drives us to go back to soloing? Countless. I could seek while soloing and very little would change about my invite rate. We're just not seen as part of the DD clique to the high level community, even when we outparse thier precious WARs and only we get Relic Axe and then also Temperence Axe >.>;, but I digress.

More people pick up BST these days because the EXP PT climate, quite frankly, sucks and they don't wish to deal with PTs. Same reason a lot of people solo thier jobs to sub level. See also: PUP, DNC, NIN and any job that can solo for EXP.

[MrMageo]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

also: PUP, DNC, NIN and any job that can solo for EXP

Yes those are the same deal I use PUP/DNC/BST/NIN to stay away from parties build beastcoins etc. Hell even SMN/RNG/COR id rather solo then party. I hate beingput into a roll because of party rolls defined by people in the old days it wasnt uncommon for many jobs to have several subs to us if a party needed it to preform a different duty, then the "Job" its been defined to do by the community. I pull because i like to control the speed of the party, i find most players cant comprehend the chain times, or even know when its safe to pull MP wise. I chose to solo my way to 37 so i dont need to deal with people learning to do their jobs etc. I chose to not /WHM at 75 RDM because i despise ToA camps, if i dont have WHM sub i dont get invited nearly as often (Burn)(Party)(No Thanks!) I prefer to use skill playing this game and the fact is many players lack skill now and 90% of RDM's dont know they can fill a plethera of rolls depending on the subjob the choose. (Including Many 75's, BRDs RDMs especially.) Most jobs have gotten to lazy to learn or do things that they used to do. WHich is why i am such a strong advocate against ToA meripo's. I do them from time to time when i want a few more merits quickly, even then i go /DNC so i can use skill instead of laziness. If i can escape all the BS that comes with partying i will happily do it because frankly Parties make me sick to my stomach now. No one has any balls anymore, everyone /nin incase they get it, well guess what getting smacked in the face once in a while is part of the game, what happens when/if they nerf utsusemi when used as a sub.Well i can see 90% of the people who party now sucking very bad at their Jobs.

I have yet to find an instance where one of these jobs was not LFG: Warrior, Thief, Ranger, Corsair, Bard or Sam/Rng.

even if these players are abundant saying they are defacto pullers is as bad as saying SMN/RDM/SCH are defacto main healers. Hell bluemage can /WHMand main heal too so throw it in that classification as well. You say BBQ is being elitist but infact BBQ is the furthest thing from it right now. All jobs in this game mold to what the party needs, not what people say there job is. If i followed that i would have WHM @ 37 only because RDM is pegged as a main healer. But no i have blu, blm, pld, war, ,sch, nin, brd, smn, drk, thf, dnc, and cor all leveled or being leveled to fit my parties needs.

Pulling /NIN
Stunner /DRK
Hate contol /THF
Healing /whm, /dnc, /blu, /sch
Crowd control /BLM, /BLU
Support, /DNC,/BRD,/COR, /SMN
Enfeebling, /WHM, /BLM
Tank, /PLD,/BLU,/WAR
2nd voke, /WAR
MB, /BLM, /SCH
SC /NIN,/DRK,/PLD,/BLU

The reason can do all that is because i dont lose the ability to Cure/MB/SC/Enfeeble/Support/Crowd Control with any of those subs, they only enhance my abilities in any situtaion and even provide me some new ones.
If i only let myself be pegged as a healer and only used /WHM all those things that a party may need that /WHM isnt included in are lost to me. Pegging jobs such as RNG/COR/THF to a defacto puller is BS, and elitist. But perhaps your of the new age of the game (post ToA) where none of the above situations apply.

[Vyuru]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

Im sure if you took the time to ask a BST if they wanted to party, they will accept, the fact is, people still over look them.

I practically make it a point to ask Bsts if they want to join my parties, before and after the changes to Bst, 99.99% of all Bsts I ask laugh at me and call me a n00b for asking.

What I see from Bsts on forums and what I see from Bsts ingame are two very, very different things.

even if these players are abundant saying they are defacto pullers is as bad as saying SMN/RDM/SCH are defacto main healers.

Two very different roles. It costs most jobs no change in their party roles to be a puller. Smn/Rdm/Sch can either main heal or provide buffs/DD, one or the other, so yes, they do give something up.

Hell bluemage can /WHMand main heal too so throw it in that classification as well.

Actually I do if there is nothing better or I want a backup healer/party buffer.

So basically what you are saying is that it's wrong for us to expect people to be ready to play any aspect of their job?

Yes I expect Smn, Blu, Rdm, Sch to main heal if needed.

Yes I expect War, Thf, Rng, Cor, Sam and Brd to pull if needed.

In the case of Thf and Rng that is their job for what, the first entire first 70 levels of playing? Thf just flat out, it's always their job to pull. Rng I expect to pull so long as they use a crossbow, longbow is fine for pulling too, just not in crowded camps. However since I don't take my parties to crowded camps, Rng is golden to pull in my book.

You say BBQ is being elitist

You need to reread my posts if you think that in any of them I called BBQ elitist. I support BBQ's statements about 90% of the time.

Pegging jobs such as RNG/COR/THF to a defacto puller is BS

Cor is one of the few jobs that may have an excuse not to pull, Rng is situational depending on weapon used and how crowded the camp is. Thf? The Thf is pulling unless we have some other kind of puller, like Brd for instance.

BS you say? Hardly. As I said before, I expect people to be ready to perform in any aspect of their job that is asked of them to perform.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

A lot of players no longer respect replacing themselves because very few JP players respected it to start with and just leave when they damn well please. Its a western courtesty and always has been, JP players usually only observe it when the MMO and the majority of its player base isn't on thier home turf. Switch to WoW or EQ and they suddenly replace themselves, know english and will seek out and request help from the english speaking player.

Geez. Why not blame the Japanese players for badly play BRDs, global warming, and proliferation of nuclear technology, too, while you're at it.

The clue is in your own phrase: "western courtesy". Except, replace 'courtesy' with 'culture'. JP players don't replace themselves even in JP parties normally; it's not expected of them, and in fact runs counters to how JP parties operate.

Japanese players like to form party in city, then head out to camp together. Then, there they stay together for reasonable amount of time (usually 2-3 hours), and everyone leaves at the same time.

If I understand them correctly, they think it's discourteous to put up the seek flag when you only have an hour, then drag someone else to camp when you leave before the party is ready go. Replacing yourself is a form of rudeness--not so much for keeping the party going, but for ditching party before it's time to go.

As for Japanese players leaving before an NA party's done, I've seen it happen two ways usually: 1) the party wasn't working, and they decided they wanted out. 2) The party kept going after 3+ hours, and they had to go.

In the second case, they often don't know what do--because by the time they party for 2-3 hours, JP parties would leave normally. (Their English skill often isn't strong enough to discuss with the party what they should do, either!) Some of them would actually find replacement, some would inform the party they are leaving 10-20 minutes early, hoping the party leader would take care of it (disband party or find replacement), and some wouldn't say a thing until they really have to go, and disappears fast. Those who did that very last thing are usually those whose English aren't too great, and don't know how to communicate using Auto Translator.

For me personally, I don't like being the replacement. Never know how long a party is going to be; hate running to camp only to see the the exp coming to a halt because someone else has to go, or party disband in 25 minutes, or people are tired and they fall asleep mid fight. So, my search comments says "Torikae / Replacement â—€No Thanks.â–¶" whenever I seek on RDM.

I'll give you one guess players of which language group always ignore my search comments and try to invite me as replacement? Now, that's rude.

* * *

By the way, lately I've discovered that a quite a few "Japanese" players on Ifrit are actually Hong Kong players in disguise. They often use the Japanese version of FFXI (or Windower), and put up their flags as 'J', sans the 'E'. I think some of them even put â—€Englishâ–¶ â—€No thanks.â–¶ in their search comments.

* * *

Um, maybe because BST never, ever, ever look for parties? In my entire time playing FFXI the number of BST I have seen with their lfp flag up can be counted on one hand. If they're soloing anyway it wouldn't cost them anything to solo with flag up - but they don't. You can argue about why, but clearly it's the BSTs that don't want parties and not vice versa. Seeing a BST that actually wants to join a party is rarer than seeing King Behemoth unclaimed.

On Ifrit, it's not that rare to see BST looking for party.

Acctually up till a short time ago BST was not invited to party because the pet would cut into XP, now BST is considered a solo job because of it(also most players still do not know that pets no longer affect XP).

Jug pets have never cut into a party's exp, as far as I know, and neither has charmed pets which are EM or lower. This has been the case for years. And, charmed pets higher than EM still affect exp, for both the BST and the party.

The changes are to the exp cut for the BST player himself, only; none of it affects the party.

[MrMageo]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

So basically what you are saying is that it's wrong for us to expect people to be ready to play any aspect of their job?

Yes I expect Smn, Blu, Rdm, Sch to main heal if needed.

Yes I expect War, Thf, Rng, Cor, Sam and Brd to pull if needed.

I did not once say that i dont expect people to be ready to play any aspect of their job. You take my words out of context.

is as bad as saying SMN/RDM/SCH are defacto main healers.

I think that right there sums it up, SMN/RDM/SCH have more to offer outside of main healing but somehow they have been tossed into a main healing roll 90% of the time. Im not debating the fact they need to do as the party requires but again i say, what about the rest of this stuff that RDM's traditionally do. Instead of just lining up a bunch of DD and a healer andsaying lhulk smash a bunch of times.

Pulling /NIN
Stunner /DRK
Hate contol /THF
Healing /whm, /dnc, /blu, /sch
Crowd control /BLM, /BLU
Support, /DNC,/BRD,/COR, /SMN
Enfeebling, /WHM, /BLM
Tank, /PLD,/BLU,/WAR
2nd voke, /WAR
MB, /BLM, /SCH
SC /NIN,/DRK,/PLD,/BLU

But thats all over looked now last time i was asked to come subbing anything other than WHM to a party was about a month into ToA release. I seriously doubt there are many RDM's who have ever Tanked a meripo, or /THF to provide more hate control. Keep in mind these are pre ToA when everyone wasnt a pussy and parties generally had RDM/WHM/BLM on the backline. It was in the days when people understood that certain jobs such as RDM were more versatile then just main heal. Have you ever seen a NIN/BLM?, probably not, what about NIN/RDM, again highly doubtful. But do you know that ninjas used to use spells other than utsusemi. Did you know that NIN is one of the highest DD jobs in the game? Have you ever seen one put up 1500 damage in 30's? again i doubt it. Why? because to many people have spent the last 2 years being the "Default" that the community subjecates on them. To say i dont advocate players being ready to preform any duties there job can do is BS, i have seen Job's preform many different tasks, and have preformed many myself. Of course this was before the plauge that is ToA, and all jobs have been pigeon holed 1 way or another into a solitary role. IE. SMN main heal. you do kow that SMN's used to be used to replace BLM on the backline solely for the MB? probably not. I have been around since Zilart started i have seen the evolution of the Blink Tank, i watched the decline of RNG, and the surge of the BRD, i have seen more of this games evoluion and recession (ToA) then most people have seen. I think i know a thing or two about what jobs can and cant do. There are very few jobs in this game that are one trick ponies, well zero to be honest WHM/NIN is a great SC partner but when was the last time you saw that happen?

Also on a side note this pgeon holing typically is a NA thing. JP players study every mob and know every thing about a party before it sets out. If they ask you to /WHM its because they need healing support, if they ask you to /DRK its because they want you to stun a Move that will hurt the party. Personally I turn down NA parties consistently, i find NA players to be extremley rude and unpleasent to party with. Id rather sit in a party for 2-3 hours not talking, or occasionally congratulating and thanking the JP players in there own language. To know when im asked to come /XXX its for an acctual reason not because someone saw on the internet that its how the job has to be played. JP parties run smoother because they cover every aspect they need in a party (which is why they use versatille jobs such as RDM) weather its a 3rd wheel SC partner, a secondary voke, a puller or a main healer.

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

I'm pro-ranger puller, Rangers ARE Pullers.

I'm sorry Omgwtfbbqkitten but you say that the community is right by putting RDMs in the back and that SE may say one thing but the community says different.

BUT The community says "Rangers are pullers" and you don't agree with that? Just because shooting costs you money?

I'm sorry but THATS YOUR CHOICE to spend the money to pull, It is your choice that you are Ranger, you shouldn't expect the party to give you the loot that drops just because it costs money to exp. It costs EVERYONE money to exp, it costs that Dark Knight money for his Hauberk to do extra damage, it costs Paladins extra money for that Adaman Cuirass for them to take damage. The party shouldn't pay you to be there.

Having the "It's my money i do what i want with this game" attitute doesn't fly in FFXI. It may be your money but your wasting the money of 5 other party members by doing the job that the community has set you up to be.

You put other people down for playing their jobs the way they want to play it like Mr Mageo's RDM/DNC but then you get defensive when people tell you that Rangers are pullers and you want to play as a full DD instead of what the community set up Ranger to be.

No...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

Geez. Why not blame the Japanese players for badly play BRDs, global warming, and proliferation of nuclear technology, too, while you're at it.

Like it or not, a lot of players look to the JP side of the FFXI for a point of reference on how to play. The logic is the Japanese players have been at this longer, so they know what to do. Its utterly flawed logic, but the younger portion or the western player base actively does this.

If you have played any western MMOs (possibly sans WoW), you'll see it is common courtesy to notify a PT of when you are leaving and replace yourself. Yet due to the luxury of the Japanese really only living in a couple of time zones, they don't do this much at all, espeically on the most densely populated servers.

If I have a JP WHM and RDM in a PT and one has to go, both leave and they 9 times out of 10 will not (1) give advance notice and (2) nor will they find a replacement. They just leave.

Western players consider that extremely rude. We live in different time zones, acknowledge it and make the effort to work with each other by finding replacements. But when half the community refuses to do that, should it be any surprise when other players just stop making the effort?

Fact is, if you're JP on a smaller server, you have to be will to work with NAs and EUs to get things done, but JP on higher-pop servers just love to take advantage of the fact they don't need us and actively show it in EXP PTs. How they behave would be fine - if FFXI were an JP-only MMORPG. But its not.

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

Difference - I pay for my EXP. Each kill, each fight. SMN doesn't do that, PLD doesn't do that. Only other classes that really do that are BST, PUP, THF and NIN. The rest of you buy armor and replace it or sit on your butts to get MP back and spend paltry amounts on food. SMN avatar melee and RDM DD is too weak to be worthwhile in a EXP PT, which is why they're relegated to the roles they have. Mine isn't.

Just as time is money, EXP is gil to me - I get what I want or I keep on seeking. I owe the PT no role but the one I choose for myself.

Let the RDMs DD, they get what they want or they keep seeking. They don't have to party with people who don't let them DD they can easily find another party.

Let the SMNs DD, they get what they want or they keep seeking.

The problem with you is, you expect all these other jobs to conform with what the community sees them as, BUT you have to be this special case with Ranger, the community sees Rangers as pullers but you don't want to. Go ahead and leave and continue seeking, but 99% of the partys are going to invite you as a puller.

You think your the only one paying to exp, but your not. If that was the case people would show up to partys naked. I know THFs dont farm their ass off for peacock charms just to be told they don't spend gil to exp.

That 2mil neckpiece tells me otherwise. The squid sushi they popped tells me otherwise.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

Sorry, but if I'm playing an MMO where lotting on drops is taboo and I'm kissing funds goodbye per shot without any form of of compensation, I get to choose whether or not I take the party based on the role requested of me.

When an invite is sent to any player, they are not obligated to take that invite. If the PTs wishes do not match my own, it is my right to turn down that PT and continue seeking. If I make a search comment saying I'm not going to pull, then I'm not going to pull and if you invite me to pull, the invite will be rejected or party dropped because my wishes were not acknowledged.

I will conform to PTs needs if those PTs needs suit my needs or what I desire to do. Anyone can play by those rules, but some are easily swayed into easy EXP due to thier abilities, I'm not one of those people. As a COR, I never left Whitegate without the proper bullets for my level, even with Evokers's Roll in my favor. Not everyone is that strong-willed, though. As a BRD and RDM I turned down invites left and right until I had what I felt I needed to continue. Soloing is a different bag, but I've often stopped levelling even in that situation to get what I needed before moving forward.

That's my initiative though, and that's why I got compliments on my jobs taking them through the levels, even though I did quit RDM.

Some people can look at thier gil and they may not see a the big deal, but they're probably not spending half thier in-game income at 75 on ammo, tools and jugs. The major spending for many other jobs eventually comes to an end. Never ends with RNG, COR, NIN, THF, BST and PUP. Never. There will always be resources required to keep going.

Am I complaining? Nope, I knew that going in. I accept it. I accept no job in FFXI is a charity case. I've learned to live with it. But even then, the "All jobs pay to to level" bit is just nonsense to me. You don't pay per swing, you don't pay per cast, you don't pay per mob. You possibly paid on time and then got to perform the action over and over again.

And that's why I reserve the right to object to pulling and taking a pass on EXP PTs if I don't want to pull. I don't wish to be invited as a puller because anyone could fit that description, I want to be invited for what my real specialties are.

I don't see what is so hard about that to understand.

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

Then i dont want to hear you complain when a SMN has their Avatar out 24/7 instead of just sitting in the back and curing and using blood pacts.

I want to be invited for what my real specialties are.

You know what SMN real specialties are, using their avatars to their full potential, but apparantly thats not the case with you or the FFXI community. No, you and the FFXI community says: sit back and curebot in between bloodpacts. Nobody is going to invite a ranger to stand there while the monk pulls with pebbles, they are going to give you a hard time and then boot you.

Red Mages have en-spells, but you seem to hate it when the RDMs are in the front. Letting them play to what their real specialties are will mean letting them do everything they can do with their job, and thats including letting them stand in the front and use enspells and DD with the sword.

So don't say you want to be invited to do what you want to do until you accept inviting others to let them do what they want to do.

And don't say "well the party benefits more from the rdm being in the back and hasting and curing, blah blah"

well the party will benefit more from the Ranger who can pull from farther away than the monk who comes back half dead because he had to get close to throw pebbles that never are sold on the Auction House.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

well the party will benefit more from the Ranger who can pull from farther away than the monk who comes back half dead because he had to get close to throw pebbles that never are sold on the Auction House.

And in this statement, you make the same exact mistake about RNG as you accuse other people do of RDM on SMN.

You define them by a subjob.

If a RDM wants to DD (or, more accurately, try to DD), we'll see. If they want to MB, just ask, I'll set up a SC. I'm not going to tell them not to enfeeble, I want that, actually.

If a SMN want to do Ward/Rage pacts - fine by me so long as they help close the fight and assist with curing. No problems there. I often find a problem with SMNs that don't summon at all to do Ward Pacts at least.

But telling me to come /NIN is like saying "Hey, come do less damage in PT." Nah, I can watch my hate just fine, I can pull if absolutely needed and will if no one else can and if I have accepted the invite. But turn down the chance to break 1.5k or even 2k damage?

Nah.

I didn't sub /NIN for well over half of my career, dinged 75 as /WAR, actually. Love my /SAM sub since it offers similar defenses to /NIN and a boost to STR. I can be defined by something other than /NIN, thanks. Same goes for COR.