Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

Selphiie’s Guide To Party Leaders

• Be a follower before you become a leader:

If you don’t know how to make a party or don’t know basic party mechanics yet, keep your flag up and learn from people who are a little more experienced before trying to make one yourself.

• Know where you want to go before you start a party:

There is nothing more annoying than getting an invite to a party with a party leader who has no idea where they are going. “So where do we party at this level?” Do your research, there is a good site for camps called Campsitarus. http://campsitarus.blogspot.com/

• Level gap:

Try to keep the levels of the party members close, don’t invite people 4-5 levels out of your level range because you can’t find a healer or can’t find a tank, it is better to just sit and wait, which brings me to my next point.

• Don’t start a party unless there are enough people seeking:

If you search your level and see just a THF and a BLU seeking, don’t bother trying to start a party, people want to be invited and ready to go out to camp and get exp. You don’t want to have people wait 20-30 minutes in a half-formed party only to have to disband because no one else is seeking, and wasting everyones time. If you search your level range and see a Healer and a Tank and others to fill in the gap then go for it.

• Don't discriminate based on jobs:

Throw out this lolPUP, lolDRG, lolANYTHING BUT WAR/NIN and invite those jobs, especially if they are the only DDs seeking. If you are at 5 and need a DD and only see a Puppetmaster seeking, don't tell your party "Lol theres just a PUP seeking, lets wait". Go ahead and invite that Puppetmaster. Just because everyone says lolDRG or lolPUP doesn't mean they are LOL. (If you have to put lol before a job name without having leveled it yourself then your ignorant anyway.) Real party leaders would know that you can perform insane SATA skillchains with a DRG/THF or take some pressure off the healer's back with an Automaton's Cure V.

• Know what your going to kill:

This plays in with “Know where you want to go”. When you get to camp and designated your puller, let them know (if they don’t know already) what to pull. You don’t want to be in Crawler’s Nest and have the puller pull Maze Lizards and link the whole room and wipe the whole party.
[Armando] Overhunting:Basically it's when you (try to) kill mobs that too high for the party's level. You know, those really god-awful fights where every mob gives 200 EXP and it takes for-freaking-ever to kill them D:

I think it's the single most common mistake parties that are otherwise good make. It really grinds my gears knowing that I could be making much better EXP if the party would just kill something a few levels lower.

• Asking people who aren't seeking:

Try your best not to ask people who are not seeking for a party, because most likely they are AFK, or they are busy, and especially if they have a search comment that says that don't want to party. Although if you are missing a key job like a tank/puller/healer, or even a DD, it never hurts to ask, you may find yourself lucky. Just be sure not to get angry at the person if they say no, if they don't want to party, then they don't want to party. ALSO for a little more experienced players, (low level players are still learning), if you see someone seeking in places like Sky,Sea,Temenos, Hazhalm, or any other endgame zone, then they are doing a LS event, it is very rare that someone would be LFP in an endgame zone, but make sure to read the search comment if they have one. If you see a RDM looking for party in Dynamis-Sandoria, don't ask them lol.

• Try to keep the party balanced:

This doesn’t necessarily apply to merit partys anymore, but if you are level 35 don’t invite just ONE Healer with no backup healing support at all and just 4 DDs and a tank. Try to keep the party balanced with 3 back line members and 3 front line members, or 2 back line members and 4 front line members, with one of the front line members having the capability to backup the healer (I.e DNC,BLU,ETC). Don't think you just need "someone who can cure you", because while your sitting in Kuftal tunnel taking 20 minutes to kill one crab, the party behind you has a RDM,BRD,COR,THF,or BLU who can dispel the mob's guard and killing three crabs in the time it takes your party to kill one. Jobs have different roles in partys (but you should know this), it isn't JUST getting people to whack at it and having someone who can cure you.

• Read Search comments:

Make sure you READ the search comments of people who are seeking. Sometimes there are people who seek in pairs and won’t take an invite unless you have room for the other. Because it is annoying to be invited to a party and see there isn't room for their mate, then you get bitched at for not reading the search comment, and you lose out on having that job in your party. Unfortunately too, most JP won’t take an invite if you are NA/EU, they want to exp with “JP Only”, so don’t bother bugging them, also if you have a JP in your party don’t throw them party leader and tell them to ask the JP only people, because that’s very rude. When you read search comments be sure to look at stuff like their experience TNL, what zones they do and don’t have access too. If you see “Kazham:X” then they don’t have access to Kazham, although you shouldn’t really be seeking jungle levels without going out of your way and getting access anyway.

• Don’t make a party then give someone else leader:

It is very rude to just make a party then give the person leader and tell them to finish making the party. 9 times out of 10 that person is going to bitch at you or just plain leave.

• Your responsible as party LEADER:

You are the party leader, you are responsible for the party. If there is a conflict between two members then handle it, you don’t want your party to break because two people can’t get along, and most of the time its over something stupid, so just tell them “hey its not that big a deal, lets just exp.”

• Search ahead before going to camp:

Don’t make a party and immediately say “Hey we are going to Caedarva Mire”, take a look, use the search command before going out to camp. If you search Caedarva mire and see 120 people in party your level, but search Bhaflau Thickets and only see 32 people, WHY would you bring 6 more bodies to Caedarve mire where mobs will spawn purple?

• Don’t just invite people who are sitting in town:

Lets face it people don’t want to sit in Jeuno twiddling their thumbs, most people when they seek go to solo exp or go out to farm. If your in Jeuno with 5/6 and you need a DD, and you see a WAR seeking, but he is in Jugner Forest, don’t sit there and wait for another DD to start seeking in town, ask that WAR, I bet he has his HP in jeuno and can warp back in an instant.

• Give a little respect to Beastmasters/(And other soloists):

Yes, most people won’t invite them even if they are seeking, but don’t make their lives worse by camping on top of them. Not only do you not invite them, but you camp on them. No. Smart Beastmasters will solo not anonymous and will have where they are and what they are fighting in their search comment. Even if they don’t, and you arrive at camp and see a Beastmaster there, DON’T tell your party (and I’ve seen this so many times before) “Oh, It’s just a beastmaster, let’s camp here.” You don’t want other partys camping on top of you, don’t camp on a beastmaster (or other partys). Partys do not have rights over a soloer.

• If the camp you are at starts to become a little more crowded, then go somewhere else:

Yes, its unfortunate but there ARE retarded people who do bring their partys to camp next to, if not on top of another party. If a camp only has enough mobs to support one party and another party or two invade, instead of having an immature shout fight, just be the bigger man(woman) and just bring your party elsewhere. Don’t try to outpull them because chances are you are going to have your whole party out there pulling and you’re only killing your own exp.

• Inviting A Puller:

Ask a member if he would be alright pulling before heading out .(Somepartymember â—€Fishingâ–¶ OK?) That way he can grab a range weapon and ammo first if he doesn't already have it. Avoid asking members with MP (DRK can do it, especially with Refresh), shouldn't be asking DRG or MNK for the role at all.[IfritnoItazura]

• Most importantly, be mature:

Impress the people in your party with your skills with your job, because in the future they will either look at the flags seeking and pick you first or not hesitate to take an invite from you, try to communicate with the people in your party, you never know who you may end up befriending one day. Don’t just grind the exp, have fun doing so.


Also, I'm open to suggestions/additions~

[Armando]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

Excellent guide. May want to add to add to the level gap thing that not only is it important to keep the gap close, it's also generally important to try to have the tanks and DDs as the highest levels in the party as opposed to the healers and support jobs, since healers and support jobs don't take as big of a hit to their performance for being underlevelled.

But what I REALLY think should be included is "Don't overhunt." Waaaaay too many people do it, even those that know how to play properly and lead a party. I guess that could go under "Know what you're going to kill" if you don't want to add an extra bullet just for that.

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

Thanks Armando, what does Overhunt mean?

[Armando]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

Oh, sorry. I've seen the term a lot so I figured you'd know. Basically it's when you (try to) kill mobs that too high for the party's level. You know, those really god-awful fights where every mob gives 200 EXP and it takes for-freaking-ever to kill them D:

I think it's the single most common mistake parties that are otherwise good make. It really grinds my gears knowing that I could be making much better EXP if the party would just kill something a few levels lower.

EDIT: And don't even get me started on people that overhunt on crabs of all things ._.

[WovenDarkness]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

• Give a little respect to Beastmasters/(And other soloists):

Yes, most people won’t invite them even if they are seeking, but don’t make their lives worse by camping on top of them. Not only do you not invite them, but you camp on them. No. Smart Beastmasters will solo not anonymous and will have where they are and what they are fighting in their search comment. Even if they don’t, and you arrive at camp and see a Beastmaster there, DON’T tell your party (and I’ve seen this so many times before) “Oh, It’s just a beastmaster, let’s camp here.” You don’t want other partys camping on top of you, don’t camp on a beastmaster (or other partys). Partys do not have rights over a soloer.

The more polite a party is to me, the more polite and helpful I am to the party, should the need arise. I remember a time when I was soloing (bst) in CN, /sea comment up, location and pet/prey. I'd been there for about an hour and a party came and and camped on me. I was throwing beetles at beetles/scorps and doing really well. ...next thing I know, I was out of pets. I ended up 2hr'ing my prey. >.< I knew that I was going to be on all day, so after I healed, I dumped the scorp, and concentrated all my efforts...beetle on beetle. When I ran out of prey, I charmed the last beetle in the room and ran out near the party and /healed. When the RNG "looked at me in disgust", I let the party know in /say that they could "continue to look at this in disgust( me healing w/ a pet and their potential prey), as they had camped on me, and that I had /sea comments up. I continued to bounce between the beetle room and the hallway behind the pt. They left in about an hour. I'd like to think that it was because I kept breaking their chains.

Shortly after they left, another party rolled in and asked how long I was going to be. I left the room to them after less than 1k exp and my level. I stopped to pick up their pt after an unfortunate AoE/link and subsequent party wipe, after I put a pet on their mob and their 2 links while joining in the fray.

While exp was slower for both of us for a short time, we both benefited by being courteous.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

Yes, its unfortunate but there ARE retarded people who do bring their partys to camp next to, if not on top of another party. If a camp only has enough mobs to support one party and another party or two invade, instead of having an immature shout fight, just be the bigger man(woman) and just bring your party elsewhere. Don’t try to outpull them because chances are you are going to have your whole party out there pulling and you’re only killing your own exp.

Only part I somewhat disagree with, I never resort to a shout fight, but I will not give up my camp just because another PT thinks they can waltz in and take it. I've scared off my fair share of BRDx2 merit PTs by being the smarter smarter puller. I pull a little more ambitiously and wait til they fuck up. They usually get too greedy and die.

Regardless of level or camp, if my PT was there first, I'm not going to back down from it if they don't want to. I can't stand a bully and won't back down to one.

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

Thanks Armando, added it under the appropriate spot~

And Woven, when i leveled Beast i had the same thing, if people respected me, i would respect them, most of the time it worked fine. Other times...people are just buttholes lol.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

Don’t ask people who are not seeking for party:

Great guide except for that bit, I tend to disagree a bit. Sometimes when I'm not seeking I'll accept an invite just for something to do, and sometimes those parties are awesome.

Amend it maybe, that they can ask people who don't have their flag up, but don't be surprised or get angry if they say no. But keep in mind that if their search comment says they don't want a party, there's a reason for it.

9/10 the person will say no, but there really is nothing wrong with asking.

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

Yeah lol, its Crazy hard to walk around as 75BRD not /anon without meripo leaders breathing down your neck every step you take for a party. As much as i want to put "Party, No Thanks" in my /seacom, its usually full of things i need for example Sandoria9-2 and Periqia Assaults and Nyzul assaults and all that, usually takes up my whole /seacom.

What I hate though Aksannyi, is getting invites when im not seeking, and me turning them down, then them totally being a bitch about it and hating me cuz i said no. Like, geesh lol i didn't want to party, is it a crime?

[Malacite]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

EDIT: And don't even get me started on people that overhunt on crabs of all things ._.

QFT. I'm looking at you Valkurm/Tree/Terrigan/Kuftal >_> (hell a lot of zones really. Crabs SUCK)

[Celeal]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

Great guide ^o^/

Don’t ask people who are not seeking for party

IMHO + from my experience, if the job/player you are asking is not in high demand (relative to the level range), it is okay to send a /tell even if he/she is not seeking. There is a 50/50 chance he/she would be very happy to have an invite =P

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

I don't see anything wrong with politely asking someone if he would be interested in joining an exp party.

At certain levels on RDM and PLD, it was a common occurrence to receive invites out of the blue. At most, I was slightly vexed when the /tell consist exactly two characters: "PT". It annoys me somewhat that people can't even be bothered to type a question mark. Otherwise, if I have something else to do (which I usually do), I politely decline.

I'd advice starting any inquiry with an auto-translated â—€Excuse me...â–¶

Of course, BRDs are different--they are so popular, they all have paranoia about unsolicited invites. So, leave them alone, but can ask other jobs.

* * *

As for knowing where to go, that's great, but it doesn't hurt to solicit party members' inputs, either. "Want to camp at ____? What do you guys think?"

Most of the time, there should be no objections, but every once in a while someone will point out something which may be over looked, like five parties of same levels in zone, someone may be too high/low for the camp, DD's are piercing damage and should fight flying critters, etc.

Building consensus on where to go and how to fight before heading out is how Japanese players like it, so just asking the question may help put JP members of the party at ease as well.

[Saren]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

I liked a lot of the guide but I have some suggestions. No offense intended by any of this.

Not inviting people who aren't seeking:

I've also had a lot of party members this way, including bards and I've accepted the odd invite when I wasn't seeking. Perhaps altering the guide to emphasize that if you are going to ask someone who isn't seeking then be polite about it, don't get annoyed if they say no and that you should remember that certain jobs (bard, rdm) probably have this spammed at them and might not reply or might scream at you?

The JP member stuff:

This seems a bit confrontationally phrased to me and the implication in how you have worded it is that most JP players are just a bit assholic. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Japanese putting JP only in their search comment isn't always about them being assholes, sometimes it's because they don't feel they speak enough english to communicate well enough to be in a mixed party not becuase they think it will be a bad party. Not that there aren't some JP players who don't just think anyone not JP is a bad player but it's not all of them.


It's more of a problem at lower levels but one of the things I do really dislike in leaders are the ones that micromanage and the ones that don't manage at all. Micromanagers are the ones that take leading just a bit too seriously and are constantly saying things like {Good Job!} or some little comment about every single mob. Non-managers are the the leaders who when asked a question either ask the party what they want to do or ignore it completely (I hate those leaders). Lower level especially there are a lot of descisions that potentially a leader might be expected to make (SATA setup, puller, what skillchain, moving camp because people have levelled out of the camps range) and a leader should come prepared to make them if needed.

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

Ok it seems alot of people disagreed with the "Asking people who aren't seeking" so im going to change it a little ^^

Asking people who aren't seeking:

Try your best not to ask people who are not seeking for a party, because most likely they are AFK, or they are busy, and especially if they have a search comment that says that don't want to party. Although if you are missing a key job like a tank/puller/healer, or even a DD, it never hurts to ask, you may find yourself lucky. Just be sure not to get angry at the person if they say no, if they don't want to party, then they don't want to party. ALSO for a little more experienced players, (low level players are still learning), if you see someone seeking in places like Sky,Sea,Temenos, Hazhalm, or any other endgame zone, then they are doing a LS event, it is very rare that someone would be LFP in an endgame zone, but make sure to read the search comment if they have one. If you see a RDM looking for party in Dynamis-Sandoria, don't ask them lol.

I might add this, but I'll see what you guys think:

Invite a puller:
Make sure 1 of your party slots has someone who can pull. Yes EVERY job can technically pull, but when you get to camp you should be able to safely say "Ok so-and-so, your going to pull". I've had numerous partys where we would stand there like idiots for about 10 minutes after buffs until someone would just ask "so...whos pulling?" I try not to have MP jobs pull only because i would like them to HMP in between pulls, Blue Mages and Dark Knights are excellent pullers with throwing/poison/marksmanship, but most of the time without a refresher they would always sit there with no MP along the course of a few battles. I don't make DRGs pull, at all. Don't ask a DRG to jump pull, half the time they will come back dead, there is a small delay after a jump that gives the mob the opportunity to beat the crap out of the DRG as they start running back. Warriors are excellent pullers until around the time they start to equip pieces like the Bomb core, thats when you should have someone else pull. NEVER provoke pull, UNLESS you are tank pulling, because that is just deadly for the puller especially if the tank is not one to keep hate well. If there really is no one who can pull, then tank pulling is fine, Paladins can flash pull or provoke pull, and Ninjas (Ninjas worth their salt) will have a throwing item (Ungur Boomerang,etc).

[Tomato_Kai]

Re: Selphiie's Guide To Party Leaders

This is a great guide.

I, like several people, don't necessarily see much harm in asking folks not lfg if they'd like to group. Generally, people who absolutely do not want to be disturbed are DND/ANON, and that's fine.

Even myself on my Samurai just last night, OP Warped back from Valkurm after a fantastic party. Just sitting in my Mog House, I was getting tells from about 4 different folks who wanted me to join their party. I guess it was a busy night, or low on DD's or something, because that was out of the norm. But, I politely declined all of them and went to bed and got a good night's rest. I didn't mind the tells, I just declined them.


Another point of note is just that some people in parties don't care for idle talk, and other folks do. Don't try and keep "everyone quiet" or keep "everyone talking" just because you're particularly swayed one way or another. Me, I really don't chat at all during parties. I like being quiet, but I sure as heck don't want people telling everyone to "just shut up" or something. Likewise, people bothering folks in the middle of a fight is also really ridiculous, and actually fairly common.

Another thing I think should be in this guide:

AFK's.

People who fight during AFKs, people who try and move the party with people AFK, people who AFK all of the sudden, and other such party killing atrocities.