Meripo & /NIN

[Eohmer]

Re: Meripo & /NIN

I'd debate that considering I've never seen someone mainhealing and pulling at the same time.

With that in mind, do you know who the most common pullers are in meriting?

Hint: It's not thieves or rangers.

[Murphie]

Re: Meripo & /NIN

By "you want everyone to do things your way", I mean, you want people to invite you without subbing /NIN, even though it's what is best for the party. So you want people to make allowances for what you want to do, but you're not making allowances for what they want.

[Omni]

Re: Meripo & /NIN

sounds like you enjoy flexing the epeen. i dont mean that as an attack but from what youre saying it seems thats just how it is for you. its all about how you can take 60% of the mobs hp. or how you can solo a mob.

while youre off securing hate for yourself and taking a 4 hit peckling fury (easily taking 500-600 dmg) in the face with zerk up and getting critical'd, your poor mage is scrambling to keep you alive from something that can be prevented most of the time if you had your shadows up.

youre in a pt to play with other people, not by yourself.

taru edit: if you're not making the pt yourself, you cant really be picky about how other people want to play. if im heading out to northern thickets for some meriting, i want my pt to be ready. because if you arent, everyone isnt going to get much xp since youll have other pts pulling over you.

taru edit II: you dont kill faster with /war sub. you know why? because you're not soloing the frickin mob. you have 3 other melee there beating on it. the increase in kill speed is so marginal compared to the mp being used on you when you inevitably pull hate.

taru edit III: dont take what ppl are saying a theyre trying to give you a hard time. they only say it because its tried and true.

[Murphie]

Re: Meripo & /NIN

Needs moar taru edits.

[DeebsTundra]

Re: Meripo & /NIN

while youre off securing hate for yourself and taking a 4 hit peckling fury (easily taking 500-600 dmg) in the face with zerk up and getting critical'd, your poor mage is scrambling to keep you alive from something that can be prevented most of the time if you had your shadows up.

My point exactly. Do I take 500-600 damage off a pecking flurry? Yes. ...how often do I get hit by pecking flurry? 1/50 times. I'm not joking, and you can say I'm a liar as much as you want. I am a DRAGOON. ...dragoon gets this really awesome incredible ability called Super Jump. Super Jump erases hate. Berserk has a 5 minute recast, so does Warcry. Super Jump has a 3 minute recast. So since I watch my abilities like a hawk, I don't WS unless either A) I know it's going to kill the mob, or B) Super Jump is up. 1600+ WS followed by super jump = Where'd the dragoon go and all the hate he just accumulated.

I'm done, I'm not posting on this again. I'm sick of trying to make a point about sub vs sub and how dragoon with -33% hate from High Jump and -99.9% of it. ...so excuse me for knowing how my job works and how to deal out a tremendous amount of damage and keep my enmity below threshold.

I'm done.

[Omni]

Re: Meripo & /NIN

so youre saying u ws once every 3min then. ok... /war works in that case.

i dont think you're lying about shedding hate but i think youre just not aware of how well youre mage is healing so when you do take dmg, you dont feel in danger. thus, you dont notice it as a big threat to sub war.\

i had a drg in my pt last night. lv. 58 pt killing lesser colibris by the ley point in woodlands. he had to hold himself back because he already ate it twice from dropping big pentas on the mob. holding yourself back completely negates all the dmg increase you get from /war.

[Murphie]

Re: Meripo & /NIN

What a bunch of jerkfaces we are, not letting this guy do his 1600 damage every three minutes attack in meripo.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Meripo & /NIN

I have my own way of dealing with people who make me sub /NIN.

They don't get Corsair's Roll

And just to goad them further, I will sub NIN and do Corsair's Roll for Manaburn PTs since those other PTs were too cool to SC/MB and wanted "meree onry."

[Murphie]

Re: Meripo & /NIN

I can't imagine there are really that many parties forcing you to /NIN, BBQ.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Meripo & /NIN

I can't imagine there are really that many parties forcing you to /NIN, BBQ.

You'd be surprised how many PTs end up with "Oops, we couldn't get a BRD" and are all like "COR is like a BRD, right? Gun = Pull, huhuhu."

Seriously, I've been tempted to sell my Peacemaker (270 Delay gun) I use to pull at merit camps to fund BST, but I'd feel really dirty if I did that, even though I could make 500k on it right now. Kinda what to keep it for /WHM and the - enmity build anyway.

[Murphie]

Re: Meripo & /NIN

True. I've seen that reasoning in parties many times before. :/

[Necropolis]

Re: Meripo & /NIN

Perhaps late to the conversation, but...

I don't think /nin is always needed for jobs that don't benefit from dual wield and utsusemi, but keep in mind who's inviting you. It's a pick-up party, with people that don't know how you play, your abilities, or the abilities of the healer.

In LS meripo, most of the two handers do not typically sub nin, because we know how each other plays. We've spents hours upon hours working with each other as a team, and are very familier with each person's playstyle. For example, I know when Ocean uses soul eater I need to toss a Regen3 and a couple cures until hate is reestablished (or the mob dies like normal).

In a pick-up party, I prefer the melee go /nin. Simply because it's the safe choice and still remains highly effective. A typical TP-burn meripo can easily do 15k+ upwards with all the melee as /nin. Wars don't need ridills, mnks don't need black belts to do this. Just let the mages keep thier MP and the chains can continue.

I typically meripo on whm on my main, though I have started playing brd or rdm on my alt as well. If I'm in a pick-up meripo and I see a non-/nin melee get hit I'm going to assume that it's not a rare occurance until proven otherwise. So I'll be reaching for a Cure5/4 as opposed to a Regen. Even with a 1000 MP you can become a quick drain on the healers if you eat some TP moves.

Healers in your typical TP-burn are there more as Haste/Dia machines and cure as a secondary role. Also keep in mind that a lot of 75s don't view meripo as content, but just something you have to do to keep a buffer and finish up merits that will be used for bigger and better fights, so not everyone is neccessarily on thier A-game.

If someone is building a party, with TP burn in mind looking for /nin melee, I don't think you'd have the right to complain that much. You can build your own meripo, or wait for another invite. But it's just a matter that people know this setup works and is less variable than hoping the melees you grab will not be MP sponges.

No one is saying /nin is better for damage, just that it's a tried and true method of quickly meriting with minimal effort. Meripo becomes and mindless, dual activity after a while, and a lot of people just would rather just focus on other fights than have to work with a party that much. Not really saying thats a right attitude to have, but it's there. Nin sub works, we know it works, a lot have already accepted that. Using it in dynamis and other large fights can be advised if you're doing the event with minimal healers.

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

Re: Meripo & /NIN

I see the point being made that DRG/WAR works just fine as long as the player avoids pulling hate by holding off on Penta Thrust until the enemy is guaranteed to die or has Super Jump ready to shed hate (High Jump if other melees have used WS).

Even players with /NIN probably eat an unlucky Pecking Flurry once in a while. However that being said, I believe DRG can benefit the party equally by using /NIN, /SAM, or /BLU while not having to hold TP. It is up to the player to make their subjob work.

Deebs appears to be working to make /WAR an acceptable choice in burn parties, and I hope these responses have improved his understanding of why people ask for /NIN. Next time Deebs, perhaps you should politely explain to the party that you will be saving TP to finish off the enemy when your Super Jump is unavailable. Do you happen to ask if the melees have Windower or if you should be telling the party your TP status?

[pyromaniac]

Re: Meripo & /NIN

Honestly SAM is prolly only job that can use /war in meripo pts thats it cause Third eye tanking rocks!!!! which i ususally do since soboro sam is almost best dd now in merit pts :x but i sometimes tank better with third eye than i do with Utsu so.... idk i like Third eye :D

[Omni]

Re: Meripo & /NIN

seigan/3E does rock! however, for some reason SAMs I pt with never seem to know to use it, even with its low cooldown timer of 1min for seigan and 30s for 3E.

some people just see zomg, i get 10str from hasso and never seem to want to switch it off. even if they are taking 5-6 shots to the face.
------------------------------------------

I see the point being made that DRG/WAR works just fine as long as the player avoids pulling hate by holding off on Penta Thrust until the enemy is guaranteed to die or has Super Jump ready to shed hate (High Jump if other melees have used WS).
Even players with /NIN probably eat an unlucky Pecking Flurry once in a while. However that being said, I believe DRG can benefit the party equally by using /NIN, /SAM, or /BLU while not having to hold TP. It is up to the player to make their subjob work.
Deebs appears to be working to make /WAR an acceptable choice in burn parties, and I hope these responses have improved his understanding of why people ask for /NIN. Next time Deebs, perhaps you should politely explain to the party that you will be saving TP to finish off the enemy when your Super Jump is unavailable. Do you happen to ask if the melees have Windower or if you should be telling the party your TP status?

drg/war works fine no one said it doesnt but when you're in a merit pt and you tp so damn fast, you will be letting penta go every 30-45s. keep in mind that super jump/high jump timers are at 3minutes each.

there WILL be times when you use penta and you will have no hate shedding abilties.

and from the looks of it, I'm sure he wouldnt want to cancel zerk on its 5min cooldown because that cut into his moar damagez.

anyhow, its kind of pointless to go on about this really. his whole point was to find people to agree with him that playing selfishly is moar bettar than playing smart.