Skill up/Solo etiquette question

[ItazuraNhomango]

Last night, I was solo'ing DC Lesser Colibris in Wajaom Woodlands (Zoraal Ja's Pkuucha's pop area), for small amounts of experience points and skill up for dagger and club.

A exp group came after a while, but at first we seemed to have no conflicts. I was using laughable weapons like Lv.20 Decurion's Dagger and Lv.10 Pilgrim's Wand (lol-damage) to make each bird last, and was killing about one Colibri every 8 minutes or so.

But, as more campers for Zooral Ja's Pkuucha gathered, I guess they got bored. Or maybe some of the Lv.75 people wanted to finish a merit point or something. For whatever the reason, people started to kill the Lesser Colibris, and they start to get scarce.

At this point, I got a tell from their Thief(?) asking me to leave the Lesser Colibri for their exp'ing. It was politely worded, but I blew s/he off (not with harsh language), telling him/her that I was there first, and they're the one who decided to camp on top of me. Plus, I was killing about one for every three they take.

At the time, that seemed like an OK thing to do, but I'm having some morning after (well, the night-after) regret.

Should I have moved to another spot when I was asked? (Eventually I did, I logged off for a while, and they were still there when I came back, so I changed location.) What do you folks think?

[Quetzalcoatl]

Re: Skill up/Solo etiquette question

i think that cuz where there before and plus u wasnt hurtings their xp so much theres np for u to stay there

[Taermus]

Re: Skill up/Solo etiquette question

I've run into this problem before, and I think when the mobs begin to become scarce, it's time to go somewhere else. If they send you a tell, common courtesy is to split, too. You can't change someone's mind when they're determined to blame lack of xp on you.

Simply because you feel a little irked about how you handled it, you'll probably avoid it in the future anyhow.

[Murphie]

Re: Skill up/Solo etiquette question

i think that cuz where there before and plus u wasnt hurtings their xp so much theres np for u to stay there

Wut?

[Aeolus]

Re: Skill up/Solo etiquette question

i think that cuz where there before and plus u wasnt hurtings their xp so much theres np for u to stay there

I think that because you were there before they arrived and were not hurting thier experience points too harshly that it was perfectly reasonable for you to stay there.











lol.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Skill up/Solo etiquette question

I've always found it incredibly rude for high level players to solo/skillup near EXP PTs and its usually why as a BST I try to avoid that situation to start with and pick places where PTs aren't common. Problem is, of course, no one shows a BST that same respect.

Its a more sensitive issue if its solo EXP vs. PT EXP and PTs generally cause more problems than soloists do. But that aside, as far as NPCs and skillups go, there are plenty of places in Vana'diel in which you can skill up, many of them with no PTs around.

You'd also have a lot less downtime in a Conquest zones, so I actually find those zones superior for skillups now. With the signet changes, I have little reason to leave RoZ zones as a soloist, the resting HP recovery is insane and the EM and lower Defense/Evasion bonuses are also noticable.

People try to solo and skill up outside of town because its easy to get to, but there are plenty of better places to do it.

[Feba]

Re: Skill up/Solo etiquette question

Ok, let's examine the scales of rudeness here:

YOU:
There first
Pulling less than them, and intentionally so

THEM:
EXP PT

Winner: YOU.

You did the right thing. It's not like you're pulling mobs out from under their noses, and it's not like you're taking all the mobs in the area, so there's no problem. Hell, I'm not very familiar with collibri camps, but I can't imagine they actually ran out of mobs just because you were there, they're just being non-sensical.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Skill up/Solo etiquette question

I've always found it incredibly rude for high level players to solo/skillup near EXP PTs

Hmm. Experience point is experience point, though, and skill up is just another form of leveling. I always thought if someone is there first, it's the responsibility of the Johnny-come-lately to either find another spot or share nicely.

Obviously there are people who think differently, and I need to take that into account in the future.

Problem is, of course, no one shows a BST that same respect.

This line is getting old; I always do a /sea BST <zone> for any area I know to be popular with BST's before exp'ing. >_> I can't be the only one...

(Note that the current generation of BST's leveling up are very bad at using search comments. I need to know what they use for pets and what they use for targets to know if we can coexist... Give me a camp location to avoid, too...)

You'd also have a lot less downtime in a Conquest zones, so I actually find those zones superior for skillups now. With the signet changes, I have little reason to leave RoZ zones as a soloist, the resting HP recovery is insane and the EM and lower Defense/Evasion bonuses are also noticable.

Well, a RDM69/anything doesn't really need hHP... I liked Lesser Colibris because they aren't too dangerous: nothing incredibly hard hitting, only three TP attacks--with one does nothing but steal food I don't use, no status effects, easy to sleep, easy to bind, easy to enfeeble even while wearing Scorpion Harness instead of the artifact body. Heck, I can get with RDM/NIN without using Utusemi, and Dual Wield my Lv.20 dagger and Lv.10 wand.

Maybe I should give Conquest zones another try, though; better evasion would give my Stoneskin a break--I think I nearly worn out that macro in the last week.

* * *

Thanks for everyone's response. ^_^

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Skill up/Solo etiquette question

Hmm. Experience point is experience point, though, and skill up is just another form of leveling. I always thought if someone is there first, it's the responsibility of the Johnny-come-lately to either find another spot or share nicely.

Obviously there are people who think differently, and I need to take that into account in the future.

Yes but you're getting maybe 1/4th of the EXP that PT nearby could be getting. No one owns any zone, but its somewhat if a hassle for a party to find other camps because EXP camps are limited and not everyone has the same amount of time to roam the world to find one.

Skilling up is still best done where it was done pre-ToA. Places like The Boyhada Tree are practically vacant save for the odd BST here and there. Crabs are always nice for skill-up since they typically have more defense and last longer than a colibri.

This line is getting old; I always do a /sea BST <zone> for any area I know to be popular with BST's before exp'ing. >_> I can't be the only one...

(Note that the current generation of BST's leveling up are very bad at using search comments. I need to know what they use for pets and what they use for targets to know if we can coexist... Give me a camp location to avoid, too...)

The line being old doesn't mean it isn't true.

I don't see why BSTs should be obligated to set up a search comment. In most cases pet is anything charmable and target is explosive at 60+. I don't think you're going to skill up on Attowah Chasm Arch Corses or Tracker Antlions. In Boyhada its rabbits and mandies vs. Elder Goobuue. Definately don't see people crashing the Riverne Site #0A1 merit duos BSTs are known to do there. Fun place to EXP, too, actually.

Crabs are always a safe weapon skill-up pick, RoZ has plenty all over.

[Saren]

Re: Skill up/Solo etiquette question

I don’t think you did anything really wrong, personally I probably would have moved or changed mob when things got scarce unless the party was really assholic about it and I was having a bad day but I don’t think you were glaringly rude or anything.

As for skilling up/farming slightly different situations but I have been skilling up recently in Qufim and farming in Pashhow. I think skilling up in exp areas (for BST or parties) is fine depending on how you do it.

Qufim – level 30 whm, pulling the snippers near the place people camp worms because I checked and they were just camping worms then moving onto Giants when they started pulling the odd snipper. The giants were a bit scary initially but managed to get the hang of them. No one seemed to mind my being there, particularly because I was answering the odd raise shout or my helping out the other soloists/duos if they were about to die.

Pashhow – I see quite a few BST here but they tend to be about level 20-21 and targeting Goblins mostly while I am after the elementals. Both times a BST has come to my camp after I have arrived we have coexisted quite happily and I have waded in to help on one bad pull for each of them, they didn’t seem to mind my being there. If there is a BST I keep an eye on what they are charming and targeting (or ask if I can’t tell) and leave those mobs well alone. I only take the odd leech where there are a lot around and I am pretty sure they will pop a new one before the BST needs it. Oddly enough the rudest person I have seen in Pashhow was a second BST who came in and camped the elementals on top of where the other BST and I were and charmed the lower level BSTs target and pet mobs to do it.

Personally, I think it would be nice if everyone (not just BST) used search comments more fully. Target mob and a rough camp location in the party leader or soloists comment, whether you are helming or on a quest, things like that. If that became standard practice it would make a lot of things easier. Not that it would eliminate assholes but it might help reduce rudness through ‘can’t be bothered to move now I am here’.

[Vyuru]

Re: Skill up/Solo etiquette question

I always thought if someone is there first, it's the responsibility of the Johnny-come-lately to either find another spot or share nicely.

More or less hits the nail on the head. You were there first, I'm sorry but the party should have asked the other lvl 75s to move or stop killing Lesser Colibri.

Let's go into WHY they asked you to leave. They show up on your camp, you work nicely with them, and they probably figured you were a person who wouldn't raise a fuss over something.

Let's look at the other people there. Lvl 75, come to an area with two parties there, and start killing things while waiting for a NM to spawn, probably in the hopes of driving you guys away so that they wouldn't have to worry about someone else getting claim.

Yes but you're getting maybe 1/4th of the EXP that PT nearby could be getting. No one owns any zone, but its somewhat if a hassle for a party to find other camps because EXP camps are limited and not everyone has the same amount of time to roam the world to find one.

Out of curiosity, if IfritnoItazura had been a Bst when this happened, would you still be telling her that even though she was there first, because she was getting 1/4 of the exp the other party was getting that she should have moved?

I'm sorry, not singling you out or anything Omgwtfbbqkitten, but the whole general because you get x/y exp that another party is getting you should move arguement I hear from alot of people is rather lame.

Solo, skillup, or exp parties have as much right to any exp mob they want, whether it be solo or in a group regardless of the amount of exp they get.

Also, Al Zhabi has a chocobo stable, they can grab chocobos to run around aggro free to check on Lesser Colibri camps. I know of about 6 or so other Lesser Colibri camps that they could have used, did they check them all or go to the first one they thought of? They are all either in the same zone or close to the zone lines. Yeah, some players may not have alot of time to look around, but they can spare the 5-10 minutes on chocobos to check out exp camps. If the chocobo NPC was taken during Besieged, then the other party could have used Chocobo Whistles to call up chocobos for a aggro free ride. No Chocobo Whistle? Then that is that player's fault for not raising a chocobo and IMO they shouldn't be using that as an excuse not to check out other exp camps. They still have sneak/invis spells and items.

I don't see why BSTs should be obligated to set up a search comment.

I do, I actually use alot of the same exp camps that some bsts like to use, Sewers under Sandy, certain locations in Garliage, the Mire, and a handful of other places. I'd really like to know before going there if there are any bsts where I plan to be so that I can avoid them.

Furthermore with the decline of parties in RoZ zones I've been seeing alot of bsts using old exp party campsites with no search comment, some /anon others not. If a bst is using an old common exp camp for their exp I darn well expect a comment saying so.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Skill up/Solo etiquette question

Out of curiosity, if IfritnoItazura had been a Bst when this happened, would you still be telling her that even though she was there first, because she was getting 1/4 of the exp the other party was getting that she should have moved?

I'm sorry, not singling you out or anything Omgwtfbbqkitten, but the whole general because you get x/y exp that another party is getting you should move arguement I hear from alot of people is rather lame.

Solo, skillup, or exp parties have as much right to any exp mob they want, whether it be solo or in a group regardless of the amount of exp they get.

Also, Al Zhabi has a chocobo stable, they can grab chocobos to run around aggro free to check on Lesser Colibri camps. I know of about 6 or so other Lesser Colibri camps that they could have used, did they check them all or go to the first one they thought of? They are all either in the same zone or close to the zone lines. Yeah, some players may not have alot of time to look around, but they can spare the 5-10 minutes on chocobos to check out exp camps. If the chocobo NPC was taken during Besieged, then the other party could have used Chocobo Whistles to call up chocobos for a aggro free ride. No Chocobo Whistle? Then that is that player's fault for not raising a chocobo and IMO they shouldn't be using that as an excuse not to check out other exp camps. They still have sneak/invis spells and items.



I do, I actually use alot of the same exp camps that some bsts like to use, Sewers under Sandy, certain locations in Garliage, the Mire, and a handful of other places. I'd really like to know before going there if there are any bsts where I plan to be so that I can avoid them.

Furthermore with the decline of parties in RoZ zones I've been seeing alot of bsts using old exp party campsites with no search comment, some /anon others not. If a bst is using an old common exp camp for their exp I darn well expect a comment saying so.

I find all of this to be incredibly bizarre thinking.

What if a 75 BST had been there? I'd tell him to piss off, to. Decent Challenges are not worthwhile EXP to BSTs anyway, it might be OK EXP to a RDM (but they don't have to solo for EXP), but its a waste of time to a BST and waste of EXP mobs to lower level PTs.

I find it utterly retarded that you'd think a PT would be better off looking for another colibri camp rather than you just sucking it up and leaving yourself. Yeah I'm sure their 10-15 minutes of additional roaming is much less important your .3 skillup. You're getting 30-50 EXP of these mobs while a PT could see 200+ off them. That's a waste and if you're skilling up, there are much better mobs to do that on.

And again with this search comment rubbish. If I had a nickel for every time someone actually read my search comment, I'd be able to buy a candy bar. I'm not quite there yet because they don't. Even if you're a melee, they don't. List your subjobs, brag about your merits. No one will read it.

If you want to know what BSTs are EXPing in the zones you're going into - Read the Beastmaster Anthologies. You'll get a good idea and people won't have to take the time to make a search comment for you.

lolsearchcomment.

[Aeolus]

Re: Skill up/Solo etiquette question

Your argument for not using search comments is utterly retarded. Lots and lots and lots and lots of people use search comments these days, 10/11 people seeking practically. I always search the area before taking my PT there, if I have the decency to do that a Bst can have the decency to put a comment, especially if they are complete morons and go /anon. Im not traveling for 20mins or w/e after searching the zone and finding a camp to find some anon Bst camping there. I dont care if you think Im rude, they can fuck off. Why should I read the Bst anthologies? They dont check campsitarus or w/e its called and avoid exp camps, do they?

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Skill up/Solo etiquette question

*scratches head* Not sure why BBQ is so anti-search comments; I'd think the game would be nicer if more people put up search comments and read them. ^_^; I can't make anyone else use or read them, but I can make sure I have them when on BST, and I do check them (esp. BST's) when looking for camp. (Should put them up when I'm solo'ing on RDM, too, but I kill so slow it's easy to share. lol.)

Anyway, BBQ, keep in mind that I was taking about 7-8 minutes to kill one Lesser Colibri--that's less than the repop time. The Zoraal Ja's Pkuucha camp was more large enough for me and them, just not with all the Lv.75 people intending on killing fast for exp. (Heck, even one NIN75/WAR37 can nearly wipe the place clean.)

At the hours I normally play, I rarely see exp parties there, which is why I went to that camp to begin with.

[Vyuru]

Re: Skill up/Solo etiquette question

I find it utterly retarded that you'd think a PT would be better off looking for another colibri camp rather than you just sucking it up and leaving yourself.

So you think that it is retarded to camp on top of a rdm skilling up instead of checking if the other 5 or more camps are open?

If you want to know what BSTs are EXPing in the zones you're going into - Read the Beastmaster Anthologies. You'll get a good idea and people won't have to take the time to make a search comment for you.

Doesn't work for all zones, seeing as how you are a lvl 75 bst I'd expect you to know that. How many bomb camps are in Garliage Citadel? How many Marsh Murre camps in the Mire? How many Karakul camps in the Mire? How many Puk camps in wherever they are? Many beast masters exp there, and are either /anon or have no search comment. Now how the heck am I supposed to know WHERE they are exping hmm? I'm not going to send a /tell to every /anon person asking if they are a bst and if so where are they exping. If there is a non /anon bst with no search comment I'll ask 'em where they are exping normally, most times they ignore me and then start yelling when we show up where they are exping.

Story time!

Long ago I decided to solo in the depths of the hell hole known as Garliage Citadel, I went down by where the bombs are that drop the ash for that one Genkai quest. I did a search in the area, didn't see any beast masters, a few /anon people so I looked around and saw no evidence of a bst exping there, so I setup camp, set my search comment saying I was there, and went to it killing the bats. For fun I pulled out my NPC so that she'd get exp as well, the bats conned EM for the most part to me so I figured she'd get a ton of exp.

Anywho, about 15 minutes later a bst comes running by with a bomb at about 15% hp chasing him, and instantly he starts screaming bloody murder about my trying to MPK him and being a filthy NPC leveler with no concern for others and he goes running off in a mad and most likely vain attempt to find a mob to charm before the bomb explodes on him.

Now the guy was /anon, had no search comment, and I had seen no evidence of him prior to this. That bst probably got killed BECAUSE he did not have a search comment up. If I had known he was there I wouldn't have gone down to that camp.

The point being, there are multiple camps for any particular mob in any zone, some of these take awhile to get to, it is only considerate that most bst or other soloers should put in their search comment that they are at (pos) camp.

You'll get a good idea and people won't have to take the time to make a search comment for you.

And perhaps you should take another look at that thread that was in there awhile ago about how annoyed bsts were with other bsts who didn't have a search comment up.

What if a 75 BST had been there? I'd tell him to piss off, to. Decent Challenges are not worthwhile EXP to BSTs anyway

And who are you to say what is worthwhile exp for anyone?

Fact of the matter:

IfritnoItazura was there first

Party comes up and camps next to her, knowing that someone else was there killing the mobs they wanted to exp off of, without going and checking if other easily reached camps were open

Gaining skillups and some light exp was important to IfritnoItazura, gaining exp was important to the party, I don't think anyone has the right to say that IfritnoItazura should have moved because a party showed up.

IfritnoItazura was there first, so I don't think the party should have asked her to move. If the situation was reversed, I'd say that IfritnoItazura should not have asked the party to move, simple as that.

A soloer, or skillup player, or whatever, should be treated as a seperate party regardless of how many people are there, you wouldn't camp on top of another party, or ask a party that was there before you got there to leave so that you could gain more exp now would you?