Thoughts and Ideas On a High-chain Paladin Based High-Level Party

[Karinya]

Re: Thoughts and Ideas On a High-chain Paladin Based High-Level Party

I've seen several merit parties with WHM. Usually RDM, WHM, 4 melee/NIN. It works well in places where aoe will get through shadows pretty often, so you need some real healing backup.

It's not nearly as crazy as suggesting inviting a PLD to merit.

[Amele]

Re: Thoughts and Ideas On a High-chain Paladin Based High-Level Party

oh I know. usually we do brd whm 4 melee/nin (actually last night.. I had a pt that was 4 nin/war whm brd - was interesting having so many tanks)
I find myself wishing that we got garuda's hastega effect under cap so that I could reliably haste all four melee at the same time - when fighting things weak to piercing it's nice to get a ranger or two instead of melee to help ease off the haste requirements without a rdm.
it's just been something of a running joke in my ls because so many of my melee friends can't imagine how I don't have capped merits yet!

[Sabaron]

Re: Thoughts and Ideas On a High-chain Paladin Based High-Level Party

The WHM and the RDM are best used in a mutually exclusive sense. A WHM heals so efficiently and resting produces such high returns that with Sanction and SMN or PLD sub, the WHM only needs one refresher--a Bard. Red Mage can self-Refresh which is why they're useful. Most of the good setups my LS has found at high-level do not include a RDM and a WHM. They're best either/or. WHM doesn't mesh as well with COR, however, and you have to have a NIN tank. RDM can go with either tank and a COR can effectively replace the BRD in said parties. WHM + PLD is overkill most generally since a high-level PLD usually doesn't have too much trouble healing (a PLD imo is always the main healer). Additionally, a PLD always needs a targetted Refresh, so having a BRD/COR as your only Refresher creates problems since the PLD will generally be in range when they're trying to buff the front line--thus PLD + RDM > PLD + WHM.

So basically, my feeling on the WHM issue is this:

High-level WHM main Party setup:

WHM + BRD + NIN

High-level RDM main Party setup:

RDM + BRD/COR + NIN/PLD

RDM is more versatile in this respect. If you put them both in the same party with a BRD or PLD, someone's going to be at full-mp and you'll probably have a RDM Nuker which imo is generally inefficient, but I don't mind it as such what with the skill up and all (BLU and BLM are better choices for an mp-based "nuker", their spells are more efficient).

[Amele]

Re: Thoughts and Ideas On a High-chain Paladin Based High-Level Party

whm should sub blm in merit with x/nin DD. period.

autorefresh is 20 mp/min.
conserve mp is 7% gross usage saved long term.

the break even point is 286mp/min used. this is a laughably small amount of mp to use in one minute in merit (two hastes, two cure III's, two Regen III's is already 304 mp) above 286mp/min conserve mp will save more mp than autorefresh gives.


as for merit setups: whitemage is most efficient with no tank (then you can maximize regen and curaga line spells) so it's erroneous to say that whitemage works better with nin than pld. a pld setup as a DD and not as a solo tank is no more or less efficient in a whm pt (granted, not as efficient as a full DD might be, depending on player and gear)

concerning whm + cor: it can work (I've done it before) it takes a backup healer - someone the whm can dump devotion into and then rest for a minute or two. works much better 'camped' over roaming, so the whitemage doesn't have to move around (much) and can take advantage of resting opportunities. (standard whm/blm gear/food and healer's roll will give whm around 50+3/restingtick hmp) interestingly enough, one of the best backup healers for this is pld. (I prefer pld in DD gear but your mileage may vary) blm and blu (set up properly) can work too although blackmages aren't as popular in merit as melee oriented DD.

so basically: whm + brd + 4x DD, or whm + cor + DD/backup healer + 3x DD both work. you don't see many whm + pld because it's tough to trust a pickup pld to competently DD without something in their comment indicating otherwise

[Karinya]

Re: Thoughts and Ideas On a High-chain Paladin Based High-Level Party

The last time I did a merit with WHM+RDM, I was the puller (as RDM) and there was no tank, melees just subbed nin and bounced hate around. I didn't do much healing, mainly refresh, pulling, silence and dispel (it was mamool ja staging point, so both of those are pretty important). A bard would have worked in the same slot, but doesn't have silence and their dispel has a long recast, so I don't know if it would have worked any better against those mobs.

[Sabaron]

Re: Thoughts and Ideas On a High-chain Paladin Based High-Level Party

I did the RDM pull in Mamool as well with a RDM + WHM + PLD setup. It worked out fairly well... Hitting high chain, but unfortunately, most of the time the area is way overcamped and there were no good pulls. We occasionally had to eat Skoffins for which a WHM is definitely a must-have.