BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

[Vyuru]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

Generally, a level 75 has a ton of places that they could be doing whatever it is at, I do think it is rude for them to camp on top of you and disrupt what you are doing. I think that the same courtesy you would extend to a exp party should be shown to a solo player, regardless of job, or whatever they are doing.

However, I do agree with the you don't own the mob's attitude, I just think it's more of a first come first serve basis, regardless of where you are camping. It sucks, but if you try playing many of the other online games out there, I think you might be surprised at how juvenile alot of people can be online. FF is actually one of the more mature online games that I have played, I can respect alot of the players I meet. Sure there are asses, but you'll meet them in any game and in real life as well.

I went through the jungles a little while ago with my samurai, hardly any people in my level range to form one party, there was one party in Yhoarter at one exp spot and a bst soloing in the other spot since there was so few people in that level range online. I get an invite to a party, and the party leader decides to camp on top of the bst and try to force him out. Now I think that was an asshat thing to do no matter how you look at it. Sure the bst can camp elsewhere, but he was there first, there are other camps that WE can go to as well. On the one hand, I was the puller so I was able to leave monsters for the bst to fight and because I worked with him and pulled more gobs than mandies, I don't think we affected his exp very much, but on the other hand it still is unpleasant to see.

Its the high level players that I've had issues with. The ones levelling NPC fellows are by far the most annoying. I generally consider NPC fellows to be one of the most worthless addtions to the game and a sympathy gift for people who can't solo.

I couldn't disagree with this part more, NPC fellows are an incredible asset when used properly. I solo ALOT with my NPC, and so I get accused of lvling my npc on top of parties, nevermind the fact I had been there for over an hour prior to that and this party just showed up at my camp while I was out pulling a mob back. When my NPC was down in the lvl 30 range, I'd be soloing Robber Crabs in Kuftal Tunnel, or the big tri bats down in the basement of Garliage Citadel, she wouldn't be doing anything to them, but I'd still be making darn good exp solo, and leveling her up at the same time on IT+++++++++ mobs to her, win win situation for me. Now that my NPC is lvl 45+ she hits almost as hard as my wyvern, and uses alot of the Gaxe Break WS, she has become a huge asset to me now. If I set her to Soothing Healer I get Haste and backup cures, and she'll STILL use the Break WS.

A BST does not diminish a PT's EXP, that only happens if a charmed pet is higher that the PT leaders level.

Minor correction here, a charmed bst pet only reduces the exp that the bst gets if the charmed pet is higher than the bst's level.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

asset when used properly. I solo ALOT with my NPC, and so I get accused of lvling my npc on top of parties, nevermind the fact I had been there for over an hour prior to that and this party just showed up at my camp while I was out pulling a mob back. When my NPC was down in the lvl 30 range, I'd be soloing Robber Crabs in Kuftal Tunnel, or the big tri bats down in the basement of Garliage Citadel, she wouldn't be doing anything to them, but I'd still be making darn good exp solo, and leveling her up at the same time on IT+++++++++ mobs to her, win win situation for me. Now that my NPC is lvl 45+ she hits almost as hard as my wyvern, and uses alot of the Gaxe Break WS, she has become a huge asset to me now. If I set her to Soothing Healer I get Haste and backup cures, and she'll STILL use the Break WS.

I consider them worthless due to their application not being much more going beyond that of solo play (which is really just EXP for them, not you) and skill up PTs. In skill up, they're more of an MP sink than an asset seeing as a wyvern, automation or avatar could really offer more to that situation.

If they were able to take on real jobs, then I'd likely feel otherwise as they could perform those functions better, as of now they can only perform three generic functions and even Automations can do better than that, but then maybe that's why they're so weak to start with, as to not take away from the current pet jobs. They also lack the commands you could use with pet, they currently act only on your own actions. which makes them seem very robotic. Can't call em in ToA zones, even though their plotline is directly tied to that region, that's really dumb.

The fact they do reduce EXP for a soloist or PT doesn't help matters. The means of upgrading weapons and armor are farcical at best. Fellowship NPCs could just be so much more than they are. As I said its a consolation prize for people who picked jobs that can't solo and, really, they don't improve your ability to solo by that much.

[kiffkin]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

A BST does not diminish a PT's EXP, that only happens if a charmed pet is higher that the PT leaders level. Pets aren't commonly charmed BSTs in EXP PTs, they use jug pets that don't factor in to the penalty. If I BST does charm a mob in EXP, its for the sole purpose of crowd control.

Minor correction here, a charmed bst pet only reduces the exp that the bst gets if the charmed pet is higher than the bst's level.

If the Charmed pet's level is higher than anybody else's in the party (i.e. T+ to the highest player) then everyone takes a cut as if it was a player of that level. Otherwise, it's just the BST, and it's 30% off. Jug pets don't give a cut.

[Necropolis]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

Well I agree that it is considerate to not take away from a soloer's or exp party's exp/hr, I have to say that EXP is not the greatest reason to kill mobs. I know that the OP stated that he understands why blus, other bst, or other jobs are there. But I don't care, if I need something from a mob, whether its farming, for a mission, or just out of boredom, I'm going to kill it.

I was helping a friend get subjob items the other day in the dunes. I would round up crabs and kill them. Did it effect players around me, I suppose, but I needed a crab apron for a friend, so tough. Not as many people level off the damselflies so I suppose the worm item didn't effect many people, but it doesn't matter. A mob isn't yours till it's name is red (or light blue if you are charming them).

If I want to level a NPC, farm for items, do a mission, build TP, run little test/experiments of my own, or just kill out of the sheer bliss of hitting things with a maul, I will. I pay the same monthly subscription as everyone else, and that entitles me to do what I want, when I want, whereever I want. The is a mob claiming system, and it's fairly straight-forward:

If the name is red, it's yours.
If the name is pink, it's someone else's.
If the name is blue, it's someone's pet.
If the name is yellow, it's up for grabs, regardless if you intend to kill/charm it.

But I think the OP will read this, and make some rant about I know that or this, and you can't read, or your argument fell apart there or something to that effect.

While I agree that consideration should be taken when someone decides to kill something, it is my no means required. Just like social etiquette is appreciated in the real world, it is becoming a more and more scarce thing. If I have a bad day at work, I may not care when I get home to play whether I offend someone or not. You know why? Because it's a game.

If you don't like me, then don't talk to me.
Want me to leave an area? Tough, if I feel like staying, I will.
You don't know me in real life, so don't make assumptions about people unless you do.
Some people that are actually nice in real life and get walked over, play a game where no one knows thems, so that they can play at being an asshole.

Sure, people offend me all the time in game, but I take murphie's approach. I can't change them, and it's pointless to agrue, so I move as opposed to trying and butt heads with people.

I understand your need to rant on a public forum, many people do it here and at other sites. But coming in and telling the entire FFXI populace that you think thier NPC if worthless and to buzz off will get you no sympathy. Or telling a rdm, smn, or nin that they can get parties just fine and to leave you alone will not get you any sympathy. And finally telling people that your experience is more important than thier farming or enjoyment will make you sound like nothing but an elitest and spoiled brat. Which only discredits your reputation. You have valid points, but saying that your enjoyment is more important than mine is not the way to win over people's opinions.

Remember the proverb, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

[Omni]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

If the name is yellow, it's up for grabs, regardless if you intend to kill/charm it.

this is a very grey line here....
what about pet swaps?

is it ok to follow someone and take their pet/mob on a pet swap? when they've obviously are killing it but due to the design of the game, it causes the mob to go yellow?

it's not that easy. this is where a lot of bst vs exp pt/farmers/questers have a lot of issues.

[RunningDemon]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

If the name is yellow, it's up for grabs, regardless if you intend to kill/charm it.

So if all's fair, why did they add the despawn patch? Any mobs dropped on people are yellow and fair game by those standards.

[Necropolis]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

By yellow I meant more in sense of mobs just roaming around the zones at thier spawn points. I agree that stealing a mob that someone was fighting and turned yellow would just be a rude behavior. Technically I could come up and flash the mob and take it from you, or claim it while letting you keep hate. But I agree those activities would just be rude.

I don't play bst very often, but when I do I find it enjoyable, and yes I would be offended if I was swapping out pets, and someone stole my prey. But I think I would generally just find a new spot to level at. But while on another job I would not go around stealing mobs people were killing. I may however kill mobs that they do not have claim on, and were not killing when I passed by.

[RunningDemon]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

I don't play bst very often, but when I do I find it enjoyable, and yes I would be offended if I was swapping out pets, and someone stole my prey. But I think I would generally just find a new spot to level at. But while on another job I would not go around stealing mobs people were killing. I may however kill mobs that they do not have claim on, and were not killing when I passed by.

And here you have proved you know absolutely nothing about BST by your assumption that BST can go level anywhere. BST has limited areas to camp, now go learn about something before you spout off about things you know nothing about.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

And here you have proved you know absolutely nothing about BST by your assumption that BST can go level anywhere. BST has limited areas to camp, now go learn about something before you spout off about things you know nothing about.

While that's not exactly how I'd put it, this is basically the truth. The transition between an old camp and finding a new one relative to your level takes a bit of time. I've been in Gustav Tunnel for 47-52 and while people would say that's a nice heap of levelling, the EXP does wane unless you go for BST mob's pets, which is risky, but doable. And if people are there camping Bune, kiss some of your pet mobs goodbye, they'll be killing those off out of boredom.

I've tried the Leshy camp at 50-51 and either people are there farming seals or levelling NPCs every time I've checked, so that's not an option, so I go back to Gustav again. And if a PT is down at the camp I EXP on pet mobs or there are even other soloists there, that camp is not an option and I have to either settle for DCs on the upper level or trot across the world to find another camp that works for me.

People also forget that while we can solo EXP, it entails lots of risk. Its more death than most people could stomach and lots of time is spent searching for a camp, so people running in and killing off pet mobs just because they can is rather disrespectful when we do find that saf(er) camp.

Some camps require you to go in really deep for the good EXP, too. Garalidge is a good example as this will likely be my camp around 56. I'll be sending mobs there against Hellmines. Where exactly and I going to run to with low HP here? Additionally, where are my safest spots to cast magic? Do I go /NIN? Utsusemi is not going to save me from Self-Destruct. Its a risk and if I want my AF coffer, these mobs are very much the ones I want because sometimes they kill themselves. Will people come for MNK or RDM coffer keys? Yep. Will the ask for help? Maybe, maybe not.

Contrast this to Riverne Site #0A1 for 40-42. Plenty of mobs with a decent respawn and good chains there, the spatial displacements allow for safe zoning from aggro and let your pets cross over that "zone." The good EXP there wasn't too far in. And in most cases people there didn't come and kill my EXP and pet mobs, they approached me for help, because they saw me killing off wyverns and Hippogryphs by myself. That or they needed Blue Magic.

So can I find another camp? Sure. But it may take hours and I'd lose one, possibly two evenings finding one that suits me. Meanwhile, others can do this:

Valkurm > Qufim > Yuthunga > Yhoator > GC/Altepa > CN > QC > GC/Gustav > Kuftal and then Aht'Urghan all the way to 75 with a little Bibiki Bay thrown in.

BST's options just aren't that cut-and-dry.

[Necropolis]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

And here you have proved you know absolutely nothing about BST by your assumption that BST can go level anywhere. BST has limited areas to camp, now go learn about something before you spout off about things you know nothing about.

While I have not yet leveled BST past 30 I have leveled most everyjob I've played to the 40s on solo exp alone. So do not assume because my bst is not my main that I know nothing about soloing and where and what I can solo. I enjoy leveling by myself pre-37 duo to the fact that the majority of people I find in the lower level are merely leveling a sub and not putting much effort into the game at that level. I don't dislike anyone for this fact, and don't come off ranting to people I don't know about how they should play.

But furthermore, this is not a BST forum. I could understand your aggression towards me if I was in a BST forum telling people how to play I job that I don't not level seriously. Now the topic of the post is about BST but BST are not the only soloers, and certainly not the only people that pay to play FFXI. Furthermore, I stated what I do, and in no way infered that is what other people should do.

I do not make a habit of just moving in on other people's camps, but there are instances where there is something I need from a certain mob, from a certain place. And if you are not killing said mob at that moment, I will kill it to get what I need from it. If you can provide me one logically thought out reason why you are entitled to a mob over me, I am all ears. But if a mob is there, and I want to kill it, who are you to say that I can't? Do I not play the same game as you? Do I have no right to enjoy the game as I see fit? I agree that many people seem to get their jollies from irritating other, but that is not me. I do not kill mobs with the intent to piss off others, but is sadly occasionally a side-effect of it.

[RunningDemon]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

If you can provide me one logically thought out reason why you are entitled to a mob over me, I am all ears.

Because I was there first. It all comes down to what kind of a person you are.

Also omgwtfbbqkitten, how is the A-01 solo stuff? I need a good place to solo and am tired of Mount Z (just broke my trials dagger).

[Illuen]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

Because I was there first. It all comes down to what kind of a person you are.

Does this mean, if I'm camping Hoo Mjuu, for example, and you, after I am waiting, zone in wanting to camp him, you'll back away and let me get him? What about Leaping Lizzy? If My linkshell is camping a HNM, are you going to back off because we were there first?

As someone who is a big fan of BST, I must say that 9/10 times I've seen complaining on this matter, it is by people who'd laugh if they did it to someone else. There is a BST I knew who would rant and rave when someone stepped foot in "their" camp, but had no problem jumping in on top of a PUP, or a SMN duo, because they are not the "true" solo job that BST is.

[RunningDemon]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

Does this mean, if I'm camping Hoo Mjuu, for example, and you, after I am waiting, zone in wanting to camp him, you'll back away and let me get him? What about Leaping Lizzy? If My linkshell is camping a HNM, are you going to back off because we were there first?

I meant leveling, not NMs.

[Illuen]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

I meant leveling, not NMs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but do NMs not give experience? What about normal, non NM mobs that are heavily camped because they drop useful items? At what point does someone become "entitled" to a mob if they are there first? If you're in for a penny, you should be in for a pound, so to say.

[Necropolis]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

Because I was there first. It all comes down to what kind of a person you are.

We could play the I was there first game all day long. What kinda radius do you own when you walk into a zone? You own the entire zone, or just like a 20 foot radius? What about mobs you don't intend on killing, mind if I have those? I didn't relieze that just because people are in a zone that entitle them to tell me what I can and cannot do in that zone.

As far as what kind of person I am, I suppose that would be dependent on the day, and what I want. No, I won't walk into you camp and start killing mobs in general. But if I need something from them for myself or a friend then I will kill them. Still I would try to skirt around your camp and kill the ones farthest from you as opposed to just running up behind you and stealing your next pet.

But I would say that on my server you will rarly find someone as helpful as me. There isn't a day that people arn't asking me to help with avatars, LB runs, advice, NM killing, coffer/key hunting. And I try my best to help everyone I can. I certainly won't say I am the only one that does this, but I would say that people that help to the extent I do would not represent the majority of the populace.

So if a friend ask me to go hunting for a mnk testimony, and we go to Castle O, but someone else is hunting for a mnk testimony as well, I should up and leave according to you. Now this is not an ideal example as there are other places to get a mnk testimony, but lets assume that someone is hunting them at all the locations they are available. You would argue they are there first, so I have no right to help my friend trying to get a testimony.

Same goes for the basement of garliage citidal, I need a coffer key from there, yet someone is hunting a coffer key, so tough for me, I just need to not interfear with people that beat me to the zone.

All I'm saying is that a zone isn't yours just because you were there first. You are entitled to no mobs except the one you are currently fighting. And while a decent person/party will let you to your own, not everyone will. Otherwise Caedivre Mire wouldn't have 100+ people in it over the weekend, and other camp grounds way over camped and crowded.

I'm curious as to how far your "I'm was there first, it's mine" mindset goes. If you decide to camp a particular NM, and you are the first one there, would you argue that with people that show up just before it pops that the NM is yours? Or if you notice a NM on widescan and see a person that is obviously camping this NM (that you have an intrest in as well), would you inform the other player of where it was, or kill it yourself?

EDIT: hoomoo brought up the topic of NMs so I suppose you have already answered that part.