BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

[Hantz]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

Is this my cue to find a picture of a white whale?

Only if you subscribe to the same stream-of-conciousness riffing that I do.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

For those that may be out of the loop on what "converting mobs" is:

It more or less boils down to using the MPK adjustment to despawn mobs until they repop at a level more to our liking. When we get an EM mob, we try to steer the fights near where that mob was found. If we drag it too far from its spawn point, we possibly lose that mob with Leave due to that very same MPK adjustment.

Before the adjustment, a BST could somewhat create their own little pet camp by leaving "left" mobs in a particular area and going back to it to grab a pet. Obviously, this was also abused to MPK other players or PTs that tried to take over a BST's camp. Addtionally, other players in other jobs would just plain train the mobs and die near a rival to exploit this as well, hence the MPK adjustment.

But it now makes maintaining a camp a little more difficult, so we have to use this convert method at times to have pets that can take on the EM, T and VT mobs we're accustomed to EXPing on. DC EXP is passable, but not terribly productive once your TNLs start breaking the 10k mark.

Were you in the same position, would you be jazzed about someone obliterating your EXP per hour? Best it gets in solo EXP is 2.5-3k an hour, but most of the time its 2k per. Now take those 40k TNLs at 70+ and think about how many hours that is if you're not able to build a PT or get them due to persistant and annoying myths about your job.

Our skill with Axe is equal to that of WAR, our pets are a very signifigant portion of our damage. And that's a real sticking point for all pet jobs - the pet damage is typically filtered out by players, so its not seen and players are led to believe that DRG, SMN, PUP and BST are poor damage dealers. Not so.

And jug pets do not create an EXP penalty on the PT, they're no more or less different than a wyvern, automation or avatar in that regard. Its basically a free PT member. Ok, it costs us a bit of gil, but still, we get the most versitile selection of pets in the game and that will likely continue to grow with updates.

Only real problems are the lacking selection of uncapped jug pets and expense of HQ jug pets, in addtion to no native melee job traits or abilties. We don't even get merit abilities like that. We either have to use /NIN and equipment to reach our potential or sub /WAR in PTs to boost our damage. I suppose an argument could be made for /SAM, but we're not as good with scythes as axe.

Most BSTs do persue the job for solo, as do I, the independance is nice and the rewards are high. I love rolling in the beastmen and kindred seals I get, I have so many BCNM opportunities to fund my other jobs with.

But we do like to get PTs, too. I've honestly never spent so much time working toward my AFs in this game. Most were done in a span of days, even DRG. Its going to take a while to do it as BST, possibly weeks to wear it even if I get it done in a few days.

So I do think BSTs are entitled to a bit of respect and that is all we're entitled to. Other jobs may solo, but I doubt any do so at the level BST, PUP or DRG do for levelling up. Its either that or wait in Jeuno/Whitegate. And people may claim other jobs don't have that ability, but don't disrespect a class just because you picked a job that can't really solo for EXP at your level.

I personally see no value in a game where every job could solo, it takes away diversity and the ability for a role to stand out. Making everyone a capable healer or DD would be just as bad.

[Raydeus]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

You guys can't blame other players for not knowing how BST's pet management works.

That was the point of my post, of course someone who has leveled BST will be aware of these things, and it's the same with all the other jobs. Most players don't know the fine details of a job until they play it (and some still don't know anyway even after playing the job .)

However, unless you are willing to explain the procedures and reasons why you are asking other players not to kill your pets to each and every person that goes through the place where you are camping, then you can't complain about others not magically knowing you are converting mobs and stuff like that.

Most players only see a bunch of mobs, if they get aggro by them they will zone them, if the mobs get in their way they will kill them, if they are soloing/lvling NPC they will also kill them and for a long time.

So, until SE makes an adjustment where players can tag mobs and display a messege saying "This is a Converted mob reserved for <Insert BST name>" or "This is the skill up mob reseved for <player> so it's Uncharmable>" you'll have to deal with it.

Because many times BSTs will get to a skill up camp with a party already present there and start charming skill up mobs the same way people kills pets, and it isn't about soloers wanting to mess with other people's skill, or about people wanting to mess with soloer's xp.

It's about mobs being there unclaimed and players wanting to use them for their own personal (and most of the times valid) reasons.

And trying to make it a "BST vs the rest of the world" kinda thing only makes your case weaker.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

You guys can't blame other players for not knowing how BST's pet management works.

Due to the rather glaringly obvious fact that this game is online and the majority play on PC, one most conclude most players do, in fact, have access to the internet. Therefore, they also have access to forums. If they have the massive amount of time required to play this game, they have the time to inform themselves not only about their job, but others as well.

I'm not a Black Mage, but I can provide insight into solo camps for Black Mages and know thier strengths. I am not a THF, but I can provide them with places to farm and know what their best stats are. I am not a SMN, but I know thier trials and how to play off their skills. I'm definately not a MNK, but I know what they're best at destroying and wouldn't have a second thought about seeking one out to those ends. I'm not a PLD, but I know what they need to do to tank effectively and protect thier PT.

I am none of those jobs. But I look into them so I can work with them effectively, which is something everyone can do if they already have the time to play this game. There's really no good excuse for not knowing anything at all about a particular job.

And given the solo hype of jobs such as BLU, RDM and NIN, how can one totally ignore the solo dynamics of THF, BST, DRG or PUP as well? Hell, took years for most DRGs to come around to the benefits of /WHM.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

Err. Lot's people don't know the intricacies of their main jobs, Internet access or otherwise. Large number of people out there still thinks having Beastmaster in party means low exp for them, from what I've seen. >_>;

Heck, I've seen BST in exp parties without jug pets or using some really weak ones (less than 25% melee accuracy kind of weak ones). Demanding the majority of players to understand pet swap or pet convert is just unrealistic.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

Err. Lot's people don't know the intricacies of their main jobs, Internet access or otherwise. Large number of people out there still thinks having Beastmaster in party means low exp for them, from what I've seen. >_>;

Heck, I've seen BST in exp parties without jug pets or using some really weak ones (less than 25% melee accuracy kind of weak ones). Demanding the majority of players to understand pet swap or pet convert is just unrealistic.

Its pretty obvious BST solo requires charming mobs, its also rather obvious that killing them off in front of a BST is bad for the BST. How am I suppose to finish off that angry antican if you kill off all the beetles and spiders in the area?

Its not rocket science.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

The information is out there in plain sight, if you don't use your common sense and inform yourself, expect to get railed on, that's all I'm saying.

You can "rail" on them while they laugh at you and killing your pets and preys if you want--I'd rather spend two minutes to explain to them why my BST needs the monsters and politely ask them to leave them alone. =b

Well, that is if I ever find time to play BST again. >_>; I enjoy static parties too much...

[Necropolis]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

Its pretty obvious BST solo requires charming mobs, its also rather obvious that killing them off in front of a BST is bad for the BST. How am I suppose to finish off that angry antican if you kill off all the beetles and spiders in the area?

Its not rocket science.

Why is it that whenever someone exercises thier right to play the game in a way that someone else feels is inferior must you rail on them?

While many people have knowledge about jobs they don't play, it's mostly things they have learned in parties and how to effectivily use it in group dynamics. So why would someone spend hours reading beast forums and what not if they have no desire to level a job.

Just because you have read forums on how to play a job it does not make you a superior player. Or a player that can tell how others should or shouldn't play the game. Just because you feel that something is common sense or easily seen does not make it law. I concede that there are just plain out assholes that will kill the mobs just for the purpose of pissing you off, but most people that are killing are just there for thier own reason, and don't give a damn about what you are doing there, nor are going to jump onto the nearest forum and find out what you are going to do there.

People are people. People everyday cut you off while driving, intentionally or not. I'm sure at some point that you have cut someone off unaware of the fact. A pet peeve of mine is people getting close to me in the store while shopping, just because whatever I'm looking at might intrest them as well. I don't scream out in the store that this in my shopping area back away till I'm done looking!!! But many people respect others space and will just shop near enough and wait for you to wander on so that they can shop.

A bst camp is not set in stone, there may be limited areas to level, but just because a zone is convientent for you does not mean it is off-limits to others. I just can understand why when something inconviences you why you must call them ignorant and rail them. What gives you the right to speak to someone in such demeaning terms?

[Don'Taru?]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

Amen brotha.

I wanna be a Bst really soon. It's my dream.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

Why is it that whenever someone exercises thier right to play the game in a way that someone else feels is inferior must you rail on them?

There are effective ways of doing things. In a such a strict PT-based game such as this, when I go to PT, I want that EXP to be as fast as possible, same thing when I'm soloing. Call it elitist, call it snobby, but when you play into it any argument you make against it is a hollow one. And I'm willing to bet you play into it.

...

A bst camp is not set in stone, there may be limited areas to level, but just because a zone is convientent for you does not mean it is off-limits to others. blah blah blah

Again:

We don't own a zone, BSTs simply want their camp respected.
Or
Treat others how you want to be treated.

You know its impolite to crash another PT's camp, why would that be any different than crashing a soloist's camp? If you accept the former to be true, how can you make an exception for the latter? That doesn't make any sense.

[Vyuru]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

Due to the rather glaringly obvious fact that this game is online and the majority play on PC, one most conclude most players do, in fact, have access to the internet. Therefore, they also have access to forums. If they have the massive amount of time required to play this game, they have the time to inform themselves not only about their job, but others as well.

I don't think so, I think most players will concern themselves with the jobs they are leveling, and how jobs that they often invite to parties work.

Myself personally, there are very few jobs that really interest me, mostly because right now my primary focus is on dragoon and getting the really good gear for it and stuff. Sure, I know a bit about bst, thf, and whatnot, but that's mostly because I almost always party with a thf, one of my best friends is a very kickass thf. Bst I know about because of the husband/wife bst duo who used to be in our LS, and so on. While I may see a topic headline in the most recent threads section that interests me, I normally don't go and read the forums of jobs that I won't be playing anytime soon, or that I have little interest in.

Even so, with my limited knowledge of bst even I know that killing off the charmable mobs around a bst is bad, I would think that was a no brainer, but I guess some people either don't know or don't care.

[Necropolis]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

[quote=Omgwtfbbqkitten;670755]There are effective ways of doing things. In a such a strict PT-based game such as this, when I go to PT, I want that EXP to be as fast as possible, same thing when I'm soloing. Call it elitist, call it snobby, but when you play into it any argument you make against it is a hollow one. And I'm willing to bet you play into it.

You can bet, but you would be wrong. I do not level jobs so that I fit into an ideal TP burn party, or only except X exp/hr parties. I play to enjoy and even if a party is slow as long as I enjoy it I'll stay. I don't care if people play the elitist role, it's thier time in the game.

And I would not call this game a strict game. There is plenty of flexability to it if people are willing. I've had pld/nin tanks for exp parties, and have seen a wide variety of party setups that have preformed better than I thought they would. But what I have noticed is that once NA parties see a trend they all job on it. TP burns and other things. Everyone wears the identical gear setups, and play the same way.

While yes it is rude to camp with were other parties are setup, explain that to the 100+ people in Caedarva Mire or Bhaflau Thickets right now. People disrespect others more often than show common curtisey. Are you saying that you have never excepting a party invite to a party that moves in on another party?

I do not kill BST pets, but I don't actively pay attention to what they are doing when I enter an area, and won't notice unless they say something. But if you were to /tell me ingame and start "railing" me you can be damn sure that you will not get the response you want, and will stay longer just to aggrivate you. Hostility gets you no where fast, and hostility towards a player that can damage your exp/hr will only make it slower.

Perhaps instead of railing on people/parties that effect you, you shoud take a moment to explain the dilema. While you won't convince everyone, I'm sure that more often than not that you will get more pleasing results from this tactic as opposed to calling them ignorant and proceeding to rail them.

Do not make assumptions about people, especially me. I am more than helpful in-game, but I do not take kindly to people you forward aggression towards me. And if I feel like it, I'll just play the jerk for a while till people that do so understand that they can't intimidate me in a game.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

We don't own a zone, BSTs simply want their camp respected.
Or
Treat others how you want to be treated.

Folks, that above really is the heart of the message/rant. Have a little sympathy and courtesy for the BST's--the same courtesy you would show anyone exp'ing--and ask your friends and party members to do the same. (At least on my server, they really do get tramped on often for no good reasons.)

[Murphie]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

As long as BSTs are respectful in return, I don't have any problems with them. Heck, that goes for any job. In all of my years playing this game, I don't think I've ever had a run in with a BST. I've had problems with other jobs, but BSTs? Not so much.

[Karinya]

Re: BST solo camps and the ignorant players that ruin them.

I was soloing DRG last night (you don't want to know how long it's been since I've had a party invite) and my exp was trashed when my solo camp was invaded by first one, then 2 BSTs, charming the local leeches and saplings to kill off Marsh Murres and break my exp chains.

I didn't bitch them out, though - what they were doing is legal according to the rules of the game established by SE.