Low level parties and their reliance on PL's and lack of job knowledge

[Jarre]

Got a request from a Ls member to assist in korro tunnel after their PL had logged. Hes a veteran player whos recently started blu. Now granted I'm not your everyday Pl'er being a lvl 37 Galka pld, but suffice to say when i logged their had been no deaths.

I found it tough going, not becuase of a lower mp pool than a Pl'er is used to, i managed it quite well, it was the difficulty in being able to keep tabs on who to cure.

The party consisted of blm (no subjob), blm/rdm, blu/war (my Ls mate), war/mnk, cor/war and mnk/war. Notice no whm but thats not a problem. Party was lvl 17-19.

Firstly who was tank? I asked that question only to be told by a disgruntled blu/war that the elvan war/mnk was, says he is only to run away all the time if he gets hit hard, meaning emnity passed to the next person who hit it. Well he could have done a good job except he was lvl 18 wearing scale mail i.e. lvl 10 gear)
right lets go through the problems...

Blm- nukomatic, burns all his mp on offensive spells and wonders why he gets rasped and tageted.

blm/rdm- Nukomatic a few times, when he actually pays attention, has rdm sub with cure. refuses to use a couple of cures to help becuase "red mages don't cure!" (yeah right)

war/mnk - Provoke? not a chance don't even think he knew what it was. he also decided that while everyone (including the pler i.e. me) were resting he can take on a IT worm single handedly especially when there was a second next to it. I quickly stopped gaining mp, silenced the 2nd worm and started curing with what i had while my ls mate dashed in to help this trigger happy war kill the worm and take hate (he had to use healing breeze multiple times) The war then had the cheek to complain i silenced the other worm and when they kiled it exp was lame. I pointed out he was still alive and would be dead if i didn't. I was glad of my sentinel effect taking hate off him to keep him alive.

cor/war- asleep most of the time, didn't join in fights till enar the end, a total waste of space.

Not being biased by my vetren ls mate was the only person I knew I'd just have to check a few times and knew how a party worked.

On discussing this after he got lvl 20 and we both left the tunnels it was apparent that the 5 members were the same ls and had partied together from the strat with you guessed it a PL from 1-18. the cor/war bothered me as he should know the game as cor is a difficult job to get and it looks like he was just getting exp the easy way.

I have noticed a trend of these PL parties of people looking for the easy way to get exp quick, but in doing so it means they do not learn they jobs properly or how to bounce hate efficently and keep emnity off mages etc. these people will be people you wil end up partying with and will cause problems. The gunhoe lets attack (when people arn't ready) are getting on my nerves as wipped party = no exp, just cause a wars bored while the whm is getting well needed mp doesn't mean he should jeopodise the whole party.

This is my experience and i will certainly think again about PL'ing a low level party.

It seems more and more people in the game know nothing about their jobs and i have noticed this trend becoming more and more popular.

What are your thoughts on this?

[Murphie]

Re: Low level parties and their reliance on PL's and lack of job knowledge

My thoughts are that this is nothing new. If you have a problem with folks who want to be power leveled, then you know, don't power level.

[Jarre]

Re: Low level parties and their reliance on PL's and lack of job knowledge

It may be nothing new but i have noticed that people expect to be pl'd during early stages these days as if being in a party without one was wrong.

[Murphie]

Re: Low level parties and their reliance on PL's and lack of job knowledge

Yes, that's the part that's nothing new. It's been like that for years.

[Aeolus]

Re: Low level parties and their reliance on PL's and lack of job knowledge

If pl wernt a common thing in the dunes I dont think anyone would lv new jobs. The amount of complete morons outweighs the good players hugely in the dunes and tbh I just cant be bothered dealing with/trying to teach them about the game anymore because most are fucking wankers. So PL ftw in my opinion. Just dont end up in a LS with them. Guy in my dynamis shell, 75Mnk with purple belt and Str+1 ring from lv14.

[Raydeus]

Re: Low level parties and their reliance on PL's and lack of job knowledge

Not to mention how silly it is for people to blame PLing for the inability of players who are new to a job to perform like a lvl 60 player in full AF.

It doesn't matter if people gets PL or not, you wont start seeing signs of job skill until at least lvl 30 or so.

There's a diference between people who needs to be babysitted by a PL and people who don't know how to do their jobs. Many players are guilty of the 1st even if their parties can do good without a PL they just feel safer with one.

And it also depends on the type of PL you are giving them.

But yeah this has been around since I started playing and way before that too.

[Ziero]

Re: Low level parties and their reliance on PL's and lack of job knowledge

Plvls are never needed in this game. I always say that, always felt that(even when I was a newb) and always refuse to ask for one. New players *can* show skill at lower lvls if they're *taught* skill by higher ones. I learned how to play in the dunes cause higher lvl players taught me what to do, when to do it and why it's done. And I make sure to pass that knowledge on to other new players I meet.

The other day I was in a pt in qufim, Drk/war(me), Nin/war, Mnk/war, Mnk/war, Thf/Mnk, Rdm/whm. Notice a problem? Cause I didn't. I suggested we stick to T and VT mobs and chain the hell out of them and that's what we did, everyone gained 2 lvls and there were no deaths. Though towards the end of the pt we started getting to high fo crabs and had to move to more dangerous(i.e. Banshee infested) areas, so that took a chunk out of ou EXP. But without a Plvl we had no deaths and about 12000 exp gain total in under 2 hours with constant chains. And it's not the first time I've done that during low lvl pts without plvls.

I always felt Plvls hurt more then they help and will stand by that belief. If you can't take it with the 6 in your group, then it's not good exp. Find a different area and go to work. That seems to be something most people never learn.

[Auron517]

Re: Low level parties and their reliance on PL's and lack of job knowledge

Not to mention how silly it is for people to blame PLing for the inability of players who are new to a job to perform like a lvl 60 player in full AF.
It doesn't matter if people gets PL or not, you wont start seeing signs of job skill until at least lvl 30 or so.

I disagree. I don't think it's a fact that people who object to powerlevelers want newer players to perform like a veteran, it's more of an issue of them doing their jobs correctly. I've seen PLs on my server extend from Valkurm Dunes all the way to Crawler's Nest. I wouldn't think any of us would want to group with a new player who had been rushed through the first 40 levels.

They've gained enough virtual experience to reach that high, but they haven't actually learned anything about the game. A great example of this, while leveling up a subjob in Garlaige and met some one who didn't even know what Signet was. Now you may not have that many job abilities or spells available at say, level 25, but there are still many skills to bring to the table.

A White Mage who has been powerleveled will not know how to heal, conserve their MP, use regen, or perform properly at all. Tanks won't know how to grab and maintain hate, DDs and Black Mages won't know a thing about hate management, and not to mention how to pull without linking or waiting for the mages MP.

Granted, these are just hypotheticals, but they are very practical situations. Powerleveling isn't going anywhere, but they can be harmful.

[Jei]

Re: Low level parties and their reliance on PL's and lack of job knowledge

PL is such a common thing now especially with end game people having 3-4 accounts from quit friends or mule. Like myself, my main is 75 rdm, my GF is 75 blm and I have a new ninja mule. I 2 box when I play my low level jobs all the time using either my main or my gf's to be my personal PL.

When PTing with my LS or my known friends, we even build our PT with PL in mind. 4DD, 1tank, 1brd, something like that works really well and can get you through level 1 to 25 in a single day.

I avoid giving new players PL tho, but I still keep my other chars around just for raise.

[eticket109]

Re: Low level parties and their reliance on PL's and lack of job knowledge

No offense Jarre, but by staying with the party, all you did is encourage the poor performance. I would have just told the ls mate to disband and solo. A blu/war can be a decent soloer in the early levels, especially with a pl.

[Jarre]

Re: Low level parties and their reliance on PL's and lack of job knowledge

None taken, only reason he stayed and I stayed was the party exp on IT's was quicker than VT's solo (due to my mp pool) and we did try and teach some order, but unfortunately being told anything seemed to be resisted. We have noted their names down on a list I have of people not to party with. In speaking with my LS collegue he got into a good qufim party and the other 2 left and 2 went seeking in qufim after 2 hours leveling in qufim and 2 levels gained he saw them at the entrance still seeking.

[Icemage]

Re: Low level parties and their reliance on PL's and lack of job knowledge

I think the whole job levelling system is coming apart at the seams now that many of the players have hit level 75 in the jobs they're most interested in. Used to be, there weren't many people who could PL because they were themselves still looking for XP. Now almost everyone has a level 75 job and at least a few levels in WHM, RDM, or PLD.

I will only do PLs for friends and LS members, and even then only if they are in truly desperate straits (i.e. stuck at level 30 DRK in the Jungles), and only as long as necessary.

---

Here's a quick tip from a dedicated WHM main. Learn it, love it, use it (I use this in complex HNM battles where it is vitally important that I know which person an enemy is currently aggressive towards):

/target <stnpc>
/assist <t>

This let's you target an enemy and automatically lock onto who ever it currently has hate on. No need to bounce around your targetting arrow. I use it for a lot of end-game activities, but I imagine it will work well if for some reason you are doing a PL.


Icemage

[eticket109]

Re: Low level parties and their reliance on PL's and lack of job knowledge

Wow, in all this time I never thought about using /assist from the mob's perspective. Then again, I don't do the healing thing much.

[Jarre]

Re: Low level parties and their reliance on PL's and lack of job knowledge

Thanks icemage a new macro to add to my list, never knew that one

[Skylar]

Re: Low level parties and their reliance on PL's and lack of job knowledge

Last night l was passing through the Dunes when l noticed a /shout ''Please help , raises needed, bla ,bla ,bla x5. Yah.. x5. After raising them l asked what happen. Here it comes.... PL D/C Ftw!! l knew it..

They had 1 WHM and a back-up RDM/WHM and all were 17-19. The tank was a NIN/WAR. They were fighting Pugs.... and 5 of the 6 died because why?

Lesson?
Dont spoil the low level players to the point where they cannot perform w/o a PL help.

People who buy a 60$ game who want to rush through it as fats as possible just to be able to say ''Look mommy l got a lvl 75'' =