Small rant...

[Eohmer]

Re: Small rant...

Did she ask you to find a replacement cause if she didnt Im on her side. In that screenshot without seeing wether you were asked or not you come across to me as one of those members who think they are the leader and try to replace people and get bitchy about the leader not wanting them.

No, she didn't ask me to find one. How in the world does it sound I TRIED to take over leadership? I asked a simple question. I got annoyed because the leader kept saying, "I don't know yet" to 2 different questions. Maybe if she had made it CLEAR in the very beginning that she didn't want another BLM, I wouldn't have bothered. My pal asked me when party started if there was any room for her, I said no... but I kept it saved in my head for when someone DOES leave, she could be the first option.

[KalemLyco]

Re: Small rant...

It looks like the leader was unclear in her intentions and the intentions for the party. Also looks like she tries to use the phrase "I don't know yet" in as many sentenances as possible.

IMO it was the leader that was unclear in stating her intentions to everyone.

[Eohmer]

Re: Small rant...

I'm sorry to say this but you were a jerk in this case, the leader was clearly looking for a replacement and you got pissed because she didn't want to invite your friend.

Again, I got annoyed for the lack of responses I got from the leader when I asked a couple questiosn. Like I said earlier, if she had mentioned in the beginning that she didn't want another BLM, I would have left it at that and moved on.

If instead of acting the way you did you would've explained why 2 blm would've worked better for that setup with a PL then maybe things would've been different. Maybe you didn't agree with the leader's decision but she was the party leader and you were just being a jerk about it.

Again, I didn't care about the party set up. It's the lack of communication from the leader's part.

Also, having a PL doesn't mean you don't need a main healer in your party, specially if your tank is taking too much damage, PLs don't have unlimited MP.

We didn't have one main healer... we had two.

So my questions would be: How fast were the kills? What lvl was the PL? How often was the PL running out of mp? And how much xp/hr were you getting?

Kills weren't anything to brag about, if anything, a bit sluggish. The PL was a 56PLD (and we were 32-33 range). PL didn't run out of MP too often, but instead of BLM sleeping our links, he'd kill anything around us. XP was about 2k/hour, maybe... I can't remember.

If the leader decided the party needed more healing power there's gotta be a reason for it.

Yeah, how would WE know if she couldn't communicate?

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Small rant...

The way I read it, "don't know yet" means "I don't know how much longer we are going to party."

That's not a strange position for an non-JP party, which is usually broken when not enough people want to continue or when replacement(s) can't be found.

Seems perfectly normal for a party leader to not know how much longer, since s/he often would not know when people would want to leave, including him/herself. (People often leave on whims--exp looks good they stay, exp looks bad they claim sleepy/busy/"LS needs me.")

It's annoying, but hardly unusual for non-JP party. Why were you upset at that?

* * *

Adding another WHM does seem like an odd choice, but I've seen tanks so horribly geared that I did wish for two healers.

* * *

You did imply very strongly you wanted to party with your friend: "so I can invite my BLM friend", you wrote.

BTW, Some leaders tend to dislike members so pushy that they would decide who to add to party w/out permission from the leader first.

Neither you nor Molokia were communicating as clearly as possible, but I'm afraid you showed far less tact than s/he did in this exchange. You keep harping about something which Molokia already gave an honest and reasonable answer to, and your wording showed that you presumed a right to invite your friend to join, when it's typically decided by the party leader or the party as a whole.

I can understand why Molokia thought you were a jerk. =/

[Eohmer]

Re: Small rant...

The way I read it, "don't know yet" means "I don't know how much longer we are going to party."

How do you figure?

Me: "Should I tell her to come?"
Her: "Don't know yet."
Me: "How much longer are we partying?"
Her: "Don't know yet."

Same answer to 2 different questions.

Clearly she did NOT want to disband since she invited someone else.

All this could have been avoided if...

Me: "How much longer are we doing this? So I can tell my BLM friend to come."
Her: "Nah, I don't want another BLM. Sorry. "

I would have left it at that.

[Aeolus]

Re: Small rant...

She could have answered better, you could have not been so pushy.

[little ninja]

Re: Small rant...

She could have answered better, you could have not been so pushy.

LMAO If they would have said no thank you to the blm when he asked, then he might not have sounded so pushy. Unless he then went on to nag him about his blm friend. Then ya it would have been pushy.

[Mog]

Re: Small rant...

lack of communication destroys worlds.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Small rant...

How do you figure?

Me: "Should I tell her to come?"
Her: "Don't know yet."
Me: "How much longer are we partying?"
Her: "Don't know yet."

Same answer to 2 different questions.

Not exactly.

Here's a close reading and reasonable interpretation of the conversation, skipping a few of the less interesting lines.

1. (Eohmer) how much longer are we doing this?
2. (Molokia) why?

Line #2 is short for "Why do you want to know?", or possibly "Don't quite get why you are asking this since we are obviously down a person and I can't possibly answer you, but maybe I can figure out what you really want to know if you tell me more."

3. (Eohmer) my LS member wanted [in]
4. (Eohmer) So?
5. (Eohmer) Should I tell her to come?
6. (Molokia) dont know yet

Line #6 answers Line #1 "how much longer are we doing this?", not #5. (Line #3-5 are you explaination of why you asked the question "how much longer are we doing this?")

Molokia didn't bother responding to line #5 because it wasn't your place to decide who should replace the person leaving, and assumed you know this.

Besides, by not giving you a definite answer to line #1, you couldn't invite the BLM.

This is your first hint you're not supposed to decide to invite the BLM, or anyone.

7. Don't know yet?
8. dont know yet

In line #7, you asked if that's the anwser. In line #8, Molokia confirmed it was.

9. (Eohmer) Well, I'll ask again.
10. (Eohmer) How much longer are we doing this?
11. (Molokia) ask who?

Line #11 is in response to line #9. Molokia may have meant "Ask what?", seeing how the issue of "how much time left" was already answered.

12. (Molokia) dont know yet

Line #12 is an answer to line #10, which is SAME answer as Line #6, since line #10 is the SAME question as line #1.

11. (Eohmer) Well thats why I'm asking how much longer are we partying so I can invite my BLM friend.1
12. (Eohmer) But you keep saying "I don't know."
13. (Molokia) i dont knwo if i want two black mages.

Line #13 is the first time the leader has responded to your presumption (repeated in line #11) you can invite your BLM if you decided it was a good idea. It was a soft way to say "no", meaning s/he didn't want to hurt your feelings.

14. (Molokia) i dont know. can you settle down please?

This is replying to the "how much longer are we partying" part in line #11. It's also saying you're bugging the leader.

15. (Eohmer) Well make yourself clear.
16. (Molokia) i dont want another black mage.

This is the second time molokia has responded to your presumption you can decide to invite BLM, and it's clear by now s/he figured out you didn't get the hints from earlier.

17. (Molokia) eohmer, you wanna go party with your friend?

The leader is giving you hints again; this time, it means you can leave, since s/he secured another WHM.

Is it possible that you may have somehow annoyed Molokia before the start of the screenshot, and the leader has been eyeing the possiblity you may leave in a huff or there may be a need to remove you?

My best guess is that the leader didn't want a BLM because s/he was getting a bad vibe from you, and decided making sure the party will have a healer is more important than another DD.

18. (Molokia) you staying or leaving?

I would guess s/he was hoping you'd leave. =/

[Mog]

Re: Small rant...

Not exactly.

Here's a close reading and reasonable interpretation of the conversation, skipping a few of the less interesting lines.

1. (Eohmer) how much longer are we doing this?
2. (Molokia) why?

Line #2 is short for "Why do you want to know?", or possibly "Don't quite get why you are asking this since we are obviously down a person and I can't possibly answer you, but maybe I can figure out what you really want to know if you tell me more."

3. (Eohmer) my LS member wanted [in]
4. (Eohmer) So?
5. (Eohmer) Should I tell her to come?
6. (Molokia) dont know yet

Line #6 answers Line #1 "how much longer are we doing this?", not #5. (Line #3-5 are you explaination of why you asked the question "how much longer are we doing this?")

Molokia didn't bother responding to line #5 because it wasn't your place to decide who should replace the person leaving, and assumed you know this.

Besides, by not giving you a definite answer to line #1, you couldn't invite the BLM.

This is your first hint you're not supposed to decide to invite the BLM, or anyone.

7. Don't know yet?
8. dont know yet

In line #7, you asked if that's the anwser. In line #8, Molokia confirmed it was.

9. (Eohmer) Well, I'll ask again.
10. (Eohmer) How much longer are we doing this?
11. (Molokia) ask who?

Line #11 is in response to line #9. Molokia may have meant "Ask what?", seeing how the issue of "how much time left" was already answered.

12. (Molokia) dont know yet

Line #12 is an answer to line #10, which is SAME answer as Line #6, since line #10 is the SAME question as line #1.

11. (Eohmer) Well thats why I'm asking how much longer are we partying so I can invite my BLM friend.1
12. (Eohmer) But you keep saying "I don't know."
13. (Molokia) i dont knwo if i want two black mages.

Line #13 is the first time the leader has responded to your presumption (repeated in line #11) you can invite your BLM if you decided it was a good idea. It was a soft way to say "no", meaning s/he didn't want to hurt your feelings.

14. (Molokia) i dont know. can you settle down please?

This is replying to the "how much longer are we partying" part in line #11. It's also saying you're bugging the leader.

15. (Eohmer) Well make yourself clear.
16. (Molokia) i dont want another black mage.

This is the second time molokia has responded to your presumption you can decide to invite BLM, and it's clear by now s/he figured out you didn't get the hints from earlier.

17. (Molokia) eohmer, you wanna go party with your friend?

The leader is giving you hints again; this time, it means you can leave, since s/he secured another WHM.

Is it possible that you may have somehow annoyed Molokia before the start of the screenshot, and the leader has been eyeing the possiblity you may leave in a huff or there may be a need to remove you?

My best guess is that the leader didn't want a BLM because s/he was getting a bad vibe from you, and decided making sure the party will have a healer is more important than another DD.

18. (Molokia) you staying or leaving?

I would guess s/he was hoping you'd leave. =/

yeah...

Even though it is a pick-up party, you should assume the leader knows what he/she's doing and he doesn't HAVE to respond to you. Maybe he was in the process of getting somebody else while you were asking her.

[Eohmer]

Re: Small rant...

you should assume the leader knows what he/she's doing...

Actually, I don't believe I should. Assumptions can lead to bad parties. I've PTed with several Rank 10's who weren't such great leaders.

[little ninja]

Re: Small rant...

yeah...
Even though it is a pick-up party, you should assume the leader knows what he/she's doing and he doesn't HAVE to respond to you. Maybe he was in the process of getting somebody else while you were asking her.

TO ASSume means to make yourself look like an A$$, or however the famouse line goes.. =P

You know if the OP sat there an did nothing. The party leader of that group would have come on here an ranted about how other members are lazy for not helping him seek out other party members, An all you peeps bashing him for trying to be helpful to the pt an his friend, would have turned around an bashed him for doing nothing.. Typical FFXI community, Damned if you do an your damned if you dont...

[Aeolus]

Re: Small rant...

Instead we should just agree with something we dont so everyone just gets along.. Typical FFXI community.