New and Learning

[MajinSephiroth]

Hey guys,

I am new to FFXI and I have a few things I'd like a clear up on.

First things first, my goal is to become a SAM/WAR. Currently I am a lvl 16 WAR galka. At level 18 I plan on leveling up a Monk until 15 for a WAR/MNK combo to last me till 30 and making a SAM/WAR afterwards.

So far I have been in a few parties, but most of them have had their own little quirks.

- Don't provoke until monster changes direction and charges a mage
- No Provoke Macro letting you know when other warriors are about to cast it
- No communication when it comes to skillchaining except for a couple cases

Now I am new to this game that is true, but usually in all other MMO's I have played there has been some sort of in-party communicating. As I am aware that most macros need to use "translation" or words to make sure everyone understands what it going on, I find some only translate the skill name only.

This brings me to my question, shouldn't tanks make sure they share aggro when a PLD is not present to maintain full aggro? such as "WAR 1 provoke /wait 15, war 2 provoke /wait 15, war 1 can provoke again, etc" rather than "monster charging mages, 3 war provoke at same time, screwed for 30 seconds".

I notice alot of people I play with have subjobs below level 18, that makes me understand they are "older" players who know how a game works, why do they get testy when you try to suggest something that might work?

I have read up on some material on these forums and have a basic understanding of roles in a party, but at the same time I see people dodging new players like a bullet saying that they are not capable of handling the responsibilities of a party and thus I end up losing up on some party invites. Any tips on that?

I appreciate any kind of constructive criticism as well as tips that you veterans might have for me. I look forward to some replies and if it makes a difference I am on Alexander.

[Icemage]

Re: New and Learning

First things first, my goal is to become a SAM/WAR. Currently I am a lvl 16 WAR galka. At level 18 I plan on leveling up a Monk until 15 for a WAR/MNK combo to last me till 30 and making a SAM/WAR afterwards.

Good plan, though you might consider levelling Monk to 18, then WAR to 37, which will allow you to sub /WAR all the way to level 75 Samurai without going back.

So far I have been in a few parties, but most of them have had their own little quirks.

- Don't provoke until monster changes direction and charges a mage
- No Provoke Macro letting you know when other warriors are about to cast it
- No communication when it comes to skillchaining except for a couple cases

Now I am new to this game that is true, but usually in all other MMO's I have played there has been some sort of in-party communicating. As I am aware that most macros need to use "translation" or words to make sure everyone understands what it going on, I find some only translate the skill name only.

This brings me to my question, shouldn't tanks make sure they share aggro when a PLD is not present to maintain full aggro? such as "WAR 1 provoke /wait 15, war 2 provoke /wait 15, war 1 can provoke again, etc" rather than "monster charging mages, 3 war provoke at same time, screwed for 30 seconds".

You're absolutely right that communication is very important. Unfortunately at lower levels you'll find that many players (I'm not accusing you, just saying in general) who are newer to the game haven't figured out quite how to coordinate and communicate. Saving Provokes when you have the luxury of having multiples certainly helps, but it's hard to convince people of that.

I notice alot of people I play with have subjobs below level 18, that makes me understand they are "older" players who know how a game works, why do they get testy when you try to suggest something that might work?

Because people are people and they feel that their "superior" viewpoint outweighs your newer opinion. I certainly find this attitude to be rather worthless, but it's fairly common even amongst seasoned veterans who ought to know that flexibility does that extends beyond the bounds of cookie cutters can work sometimes if you think things through and execute properly.

I have read up on some material on these forums and have a basic understanding of roles in a party, but at the same time I see people dodging new players like a bullet saying that they are not capable of handling the responsibilities of a party and thus I end up losing up on some party invites. Any tips on that?

Not much you can really do about it except make friends on your way up. Socialize with those people you see with the fully levelled subjobs prior to 18, find ones that you feel are mature and helpful, and cultivate their friendship. You'll appreciate having a helping hand later as you start hitting the roadblocks that stop many new players in their tracks (starting with the subjob quests, and extending much farther on).

I appreciate any kind of constructive criticism as well as tips that you veterans might have for me. I look forward to some replies and if it makes a difference I am on Alexander.

I think you're doing everything right. Just keep your wits about you and keep an open mind and you'll do fine.


Icemage

[Omni]

Re: New and Learning

I have read up on some material on these forums and have a basic understanding of roles in a party, but at the same time I see people dodging new players like a bullet saying that they are not capable of handling the responsibilities of a party and thus I end up losing up on some party invites. Any tips on that?

Stay up to date with everything as best as you can. Do not just lvl all the way to 50 and when someone wants to goto quicksands caves you happen to mention that you dont have the altep-tele crystal.

Take time out to get the basics done. telepoints, missions, access to various places, gear, etc.

Imo, talking less is always better unless you are with a group of people you alread y know. I find that a lot of newer players jibber jabber way too much and it distracts them from the game.

When you're trying to grind through such hells holes like valkrum, people in the pt messing around, not taking things seriously, just makes the whole experience that much more troublesome.

I think for many veteran players, going through lower level zones is just painful because theyve done it 7, 8, 9 times already, if not more. Coming into a PT that just goofs off and does more banter than actually trying to get out of (for instance) valkrum asap, it just makes veterans want to avoid new players even more. They want to spend the least amount of time possible in those kind of crappy zones.

So far everything looks good on your part. Keep it up and good luck!

[tdh]

Re: New and Learning

Communication is Key.

Communication can also be Rare/EX.

From the way you make it sound, I would have throught you were a returning player who was only rusty, not a "newbie." If you were on Lakshmi, I would have instructed one of my sackholders to hunt you down and give you a pearl.

One of the reasons why parties in the 10~20 range stink so badly are because people aren't quite sure what role they play in a party. To make matters worse, a lot of them have either decided they don't need anybody's help in learning their job, or are swear up and down they already know their job. Then to toss another wrench in the machine, just about any job with a /WAR sub can tank, and the tank jobs can't keep hate. So now everybody has a PL (Power Leveler) to get up to Lv.40, so they don't grasp the party dynamic like somebody who did all the work themselves without any help.

Best advise we could give? Be patient. Things get better as you go along. At Lv.30 things go a little faster as most jobs get another one of their bigger Job Abilities, Lv.40 people either have a spells that turns the tables, or another Job Ability that kicks in, Lv.50 you get some of the better subjob Job Abilities/Traits, and then Lv.60 you've basically gotten everything and will most likely have one of your more damaging WS or spells. So be patient, and trudge through. It's like paying your dues, and in some cases weeding out some of the people who just aren't going to cut it.

I think for many veteran players, going through lower level zones is just painful because theyve done it 7, 8, 9 times already, if not more. Coming into a PT that just goofs off and does more banter than actually trying to get out of (for instance) valkrum asap, it just makes veterans want to avoid new players even more. They want to spend the least amount of time possible in those kind of crappy zones.

Another thing to add to Omni's comment is as higher level people, we have a slightly ascewed view on EXP. We TP Burn for Merit Parties and get 10k+ EXP an hour, and then expect a Lv.20 party to be able to do the same thing. lol Just aren't going to see those kinds of numbers, and we get frustrated that we can't do 4 levels in an hour.

[MajinSephiroth]

Re: New and Learning

I thank you all for the tips and comments, one thing however still makes me un-easy in a party environment however.

I have heard from my friends who had played this game a long time ago, that your reputation will follow you throughout the game, making a positive impact from the begginning prioritises over everything, which is mostly why I have kept my tongue about some aspects in the team. Now I know some people out there give blatant disregard to everything they do not believe in, but what would you advise someone like me to do? Speak up and let them know tactics will not work unless such and such happens or continue with tactics as they progress, because the leader is giving you the orders?

I kind of understand that the more relations you build on in the game will help you more than random gatherings of people, but it just really makes me wonder how to act. I do not want to come by as a complete ass that thinks he knows what he is talking about, because I am afraid rumors to be spreading whether true or untrue; and quite frankly I do not wish to be completely left out of parties simply because some key people in them had a difference of opinion that makes them hate me. I mean nothing is worse than being left out of a party because a WHM is threatening to leave if you are included, simply because they do not agree with the fact that you are trying your best.

I have read somewhere that some of the older players refuse to party with new ones regardless of any experience, simply because they are new to the game, I mean if you are this close minded about new people, doesn't that hinder them in the learning process?

Someone also mentioned previously that most players have done areas in the game more than 9 times and hate the chatter in parties, if you dont speak a little during some "pull" breaks, wouldn't that hinder your ability to create friendships? I mean I understand that you should not be talking more than hunting, but I find a little chatter and humour could aleviate some of the bad situations that you might run into.

I guess what I was trying to get to with all my sensless rambling banter was, what hurts your reputation as a party member mostly? What are the don't do's of a party that will really make people later on say "I rather have a Galka WHM than him" (and in no way am I putting down Galka WHM's, I have heard a couple good things about some).

[kuu]

Re: New and Learning

Sometimes I think that ffxi gives real life lessons to people. It's everthing a leadership camp has

Team-work
Leadership skills
Discipline

Keep in mind all the things that make a group work. Follow leadership, compromise, work, don't antagonize. If the group lacks leadership, try to take charge without being agressive.

Stick together if possible, is one thing that JPs have shown us works better. NA's massive switching has shown that it can degrade a party over time.

It's not really a ffxi-specific thing, but humanly, people who are not sure, will tend to defer to authority.

If you have a lot of people that are shrugging heads, take charge, it's a pain in the rear to take responiblity at times especially if you don't think highly of your team, but it makes a bad situation turn decent, and a decent turned good.

You wouldn't imagine how a group of newbies, and one veteran, can turn a ship around, once they defer to him. As long as you don't become and idiot and lower your expectations if needed, it becomes a pretty enjoyable time.

So basically if you think you know what you're doing, and the pt isn't good, either work with the leader or take charge. People also feel when things are bad, and will happily defer to leadership.

[Murphie]

Re: New and Learning

This brings me to my question, shouldn't tanks make sure they share aggro when a PLD is not present to maintain full aggro? such as "WAR 1 provoke /wait 15, war 2 provoke /wait 15, war 1 can provoke again, etc" rather than "monster charging mages, 3 war provoke at same time, screwed for 30 seconds".

Everyone else has covered things pretty well, and you seem to have the right attidude anyway, but I wanted to address this.^^

Honestly, while Paladin is a really wonderful tank, for the part of the game you're at currently (below 30ish), a single Warrior can actually main tank very well with little to no assistance with the provoking duties. As long as he has a MNK sub and uses a weapon that is fully leveled (ideally an axe or great axe) he should hold hate very well. That leaves the other WAR or /WAR in the group to focus on DD, and only worry about provoking when the main tank loses hate for whatever reason. This will help out your healers in that they won't be having to heal everyone in the party as the hate bounces all over the place. A single tank is always a lot easier on a healer.

Now, later on you will encounter instances of Warriors (or other melee even later on) subbing Ninja, and trading hate amongst themselves that way. This is because they only hold hate long enough for the mob to tear through the shadows that they cast with their Ninja subjob, and then someone else grabs hate to do the same thing. In situations like that, trading mob hate makes perfect sense.

[Icemage]

Re: New and Learning

Stuff that hurts your reputation depends on who you're dealing with, but if we're talking about the sort of people who are going to be really good friends for you (and not just out to get what they can from you), there's some basic rules:

- Multiple /checks is bad. Most people don't mind one /check out of curiosity, but more than once is annoying. Try not to overdo.

- Having conversations in /say or /shout is usually bad unless circumstances are unusual. In particular, getting into arguments over /shout or /say can get you negative impressions.

- Always show up with key abilities acquired if possible. That means taking the time to bump your subjob up to snuff after getting access to it instead of levelling as xxx18/yyy01 (yes, you'd be surprised how often this happens).

- Learn when to say no. There are times when you realize that a party member is doing something terribly dangerous (pulling too fast, curebombing, whatever... you'll know when it happens, believe me), and if you think it's going to have a detrimental effect on the party's effectiveness, speak up if that's your style. Veteran players will respect you for it, and newbies who don't get it aren't people you want to be partying with anyhow.

- Research, research, research. Read this forum and similar sites, and ask questions on here when you can't find an answer. It'll make you look a lot smarter in-game when you already know what to do; people appreciate when other players have put in the time to find out how to do things instead of asking for everything.

- Find the good and helpful players and work hard to associate with them. While truly established players will be hard to impress, it's worth the effort. I've gone out of my way a few times to lend a hand to new players that I thought showed maturity and dedication and just needed a break to get them over the tougher tasks, and I know most other veteran players do the same. The more people like that you know and hang out with, the more you'll meet more of their contemporaries, and the easier a time you'll have if you can make a good impression on them.


Icemage

[MajinSephiroth]

Re: New and Learning

Once more I thank you all, you have cleared up all doubts and missconceptions I had.

I believe in team-work alot more than fending for myself which is why I find myself turning to team-oriented games.

Thanks again for the good tips, going to put them into practice now and hopefully reach 18

Oh one more thing I forgot to ask about teams. I notice skill chains aren't used frequently early on, is there a reason for it? What level do they start making a noticeable difference?

[Murphie]

Re: New and Learning

That's a tricky question. :p At one point, people were at least trying skillchains as soon as they started partying. Even in the dunes you had folks doing their best to set up a chain just for practice. These days it's not as common.

Without someone in your party who can magic burst off of the skillchain, there isn't quite as much need for them. Most people prefer at that point to just use TP moves as they become available. I'm personally not a fan of that, but I'm also not everyone.

Really, as soon as you're able to start doing Level 2 Skillchains like Distortion, Fusion, Fragmentation and Gravitation, that's a good time to make them a regular part of your exp party. At that point the magic bursting options open up a bit (and mages will have more powerful spells at their disposal), so it can really help to kill a mob faster. This, of course, requires teamwork, and someone who knows how to set up the chain. Familiarizing yourself with SC setups is a great way to help with that. If you have a chain already in mind, that can really help you to get your party interested.

Later on in the game most people don't SC. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing depends on who you ask, but I personally really miss them.

[Idun_Midgardsormr]

Re: New and Learning

One tip I would like to share with you, although it was generally covered under quests above:

As soon as you can get into selbina, go and see the mayor and get the clay quest started. You'll be travelling all over the place while levelling or farming, so make the most of it. Having the Crawlers Nest map may actually save your bacon one day!