BCNM20 Shooting fish- looking for a non-SMN tactic

[ikkleste]

Basically i'm trying to build my manquinn.
I've got my garrison pieces.
I've got ideas for how i'm going to do Crustacian Conundrum, and Charming trio.

But i don't intend on levling summoner until i get another high level job to unlock the summons.

I also don't want to be basically walked through by someone else.

I've read around a bit, but every tactic i can find involves summoner and ramuh either soloing or duoing.

Do the fish have a sever knockback attack? I can't find this explicitly stated anywhere but is what i've picked up. Is this going to make straight tanking a problem? Would a nin kiting this work?

Honestly i'm cool fine tuning things myself, but some vague idea of where to start would be nice.

Has anyone doene this without the aid of a summoner?

[Taodyn]

Re: BCNM20 Shooting fish- looking for a non-SMN tactic

The knockback is quite severe. You'll get thrown quite a distance and while thrown, you can't act in any way.

With three fish firing basically non-stop, it would be difficult for any tank to take that kind of punishment. A NIN wouldn't have time to get his shadows back up before he was pulverized.

If the mannequin is that important to you, I'd suggest leveling Summoner to 20 and then doing the Ramuh battle. Then you can put the job back on hold until you are higher in level.

[Zamphire]

Re: BCNM20 Shooting fish- looking for a non-SMN tactic

Yea, SMN to 20 isn't hard,and then the Ramuh battle only takes practice and then you're ready. I really dont see how anyone but SMN can beat this, unless maybe BST can charm the two normal fish.

[ikkleste]

Re: BCNM20 Shooting fish- looking for a non-SMN tactic

C'mon? Some one must have some idea?

Was summoner even in when shooting fish was implimented (no idea if it was or not) or even if it was before the mini avatar battles, that would put a a level 20 BCNM out of reach of anyone without a high enough level job to unlock Ramuh. Admitted now the mini battles are available but like i say when and if i take up summoner i kinda want to old school it and unlock the avatars the old way, and then start leveling it.

I dunno it just seems odd that this quite large and popular quest (manequinn's) is so specific if it needs an item which is only obtainable by a summoner. Especially when summoner was introduced it was an advanced job for those with high level jobs.

[Taskmage]

Re: BCNM20 Shooting fish- looking for a non-SMN tactic

The mini-avatar battles were in when BCNM20s were implemented. Lower level BCNMs came to the game pretty late. This isn't the only BCNM that drops Mannequin Head either, just the only one with a 100% chance. The BCNM with a 100% chance of dropping the body has a very narrow strategy also, which is probably the reason the head and hands have always been the most expensive pieces.

Anyway, I googled it for you to see if I could find anything and found this successful strategy posted on this blog:

The final piece, the Mannequin Head, is a guaranteed drop from Shooting Fish, a Horlais Peak BCNM facing a Sniper Pugil and his two Archer Pugil buddies. The fish don't melee, but use splash attacks against you that knock you back. Most people do this with two Summoners using Astral Flow with Ramuh, but the three of us haven't leveled Summoner at all (Kiki refuses to until she has all, yes all, of the avatars), so we had to come up with another strategy. We did some research, and learned that some people have used a RNG/WAR, PLD/WAR, WHM/BLM combination with great success.

We geared up with Elbo as WHM, Grym as RNG, and Kiki as PLD. Kiki used Dhalmel Pies for food, Grym opted for Rarab Meatballs, and Elbo used an Apple Pie. Kiki had a couple Hi-Potions and an X-Potion, as well as Pear au Lait and Melon Juice. Since this strategy seems to require the Ranger's two hour, Eagle Eye Shot, we couldn't do the fights all at the same time, so we split them over two days.

We really weren't sure how it would go, and were fearful of failure, but as with the other BCNMs, it went quite well. Elboron cast protectra and shell and barwatera on us. Kiki ran in to get aggro, provoked one of the Archer Pugils, and basically stood there getting pushed against the wall with the three pugils shooting water at her. It was kind of amusing, but a bit annoying that she kept getting "You cannot see the Archer Pugil" messages while trying to shoot arrows at the pugil. So Grym pretty much did most of the damage, at least for the first two fish. Grym used Eagle Eye Shot, and it didn't seem to do anything, but after we killed the first Archer Pugil, we realized that Grym's EES must have hit the other one, since it was at less than half life when we auto-targetted it. I'm not sure why it hadn't been attacking her, but it was a good thing, as Elboron would have had a tough time keeping both Kiki and Grym healed.

Kiki used Invincible when we were left with just the Sniper Pugil, but looking at the damage log, the aqua balls were hitting her through Invincible. It probably helped a bit with hate, but certainly didn't give us a break on Cures.

Kiki wasn't able to get too many Cures off at the start of the fight, so she used a Hi-Potion and an X-Potion to help Elbo out. Kiki was able to pretty much keep hate off of Grym until we were left with just the Sniper Pugil (Kiki was wearing her Pumpkin Head II and Dash Sash for +3 Enmity, which probably helped). The fight took us about 7 minutes, and in addition to the Mannequin Head, we got a platoon gun, shall shell, Thunder Spirit Pact, and something else of minor value. The Thunder Spirit Pact actually sells for 150k, so that was a nice surprise. Elboron ran off to Mhaura to get the Mithra to put together his mannequin, but wouldn't be able to get it until the following day.

The next evening, the two runs went a bit smoother, and rather than being nervous about it, I actually had a fun time. Kiki switched to Tavnazian Tacos for the extra defense and vitality over the Dhalmel Pies (plus another 20 MP wouldn't hurt). We didn't use any potions for these two runs either. The first Archer Pugil went down fast with Eagle Eye Shot, and Grym would get hate by the time we got to the Sniper Pugil, so Kiki got to run up and smack it a few times for both runs. We didn't get worthwhile drops other than our Mannequin Heads, but it sure was fun.

Love your sig btw. ^^d Good luck on the fight.

[Herrisa]

Re: BCNM20 Shooting fish- looking for a non-SMN tactic

People say it's summoner only because that's the easiest way to win. Unfortunately, when I went in, it was with a smn friend so I really can't offer to much help.

My experience with the BCNM, perhaps this will help with creating a strategy:

When I went in I went as a 20 pld and did the initial aggro (ran in and provoked the middle pugil, the 2 side pugils linked to it). The pugils didn't leave the middle of the arena as they shot their aquaballs at me. The knockback knocked me into the arena wall and pretty much pinned me there. However, there were breaks in the knockbacks where I could provoke, cure or run up and smack them with my sword.

I had equipped a lot of +water resistance equipment. I'm not sure how much it helped but the aquaball damage didn't hurt as much as I thought it would. The problem was the knockback that was throwing me all over the arena.

By this time the first Astral Flow had gone off so Ramuh was tanking. With the pugils distracted I managed to get a few hits in. The rest proceeded as the smn technique. When Ramuh disappeared the pugils took off after the SMN (they left the center of the arena).

They default to their ranged attack while chasing. They only attack physically when somebody is meleeing them.

Alternative strategy suggestions:

PLD - RNG - WHM/BLM/RDM
The pugil's Aquaball is less dangerous than their physcal attacks (they hit hard). So try to use the best heavy ranged attacks possible.

PLD runs in and aggros the pugils and provokes one of the side pugils (make sure everyone is clear on which one). Everyone concentrates on the one pugil. As long as the other 2 pugils are not touched by anything (no -ga spells at all) they will remain locked on the PLD.

PLD cures him/herself as much as possible. Hi-pots, au laits drinks and yag drinks highly recommended. Also would recommend getting as much +water resistance equipment as possible.

Kill the first pugil as fast as possible, then move to the next side pugil before taking on the main pugil.

WHM would be nice to help keep the PLD alive during the first part of the battle. Unsure if paralyze and slow would stick on a pugil, but Dia would help. WHM also have Barwatera to help with increasing water resistance. RDM can also help cure during the first part of the battle. They also have good enfeebling, nuking and melee ability. BLM also have the ability to help cure, some enfeebling ability, but strong nuking ability to kill the pugils faster.

Boiling it down:

-Having a tank that can keep the attention of the pugils so the DD can kill them uninterrupted by the knockback. All the while having the ability to stay alive in case the mage is unable to cure.

-Aquaball is the lesser of two evils. The pugils hit hard physically so it might be best to have jobs that have good ranged damage.

[Renaissance 2K]

Re: BCNM20 Shooting fish- looking for a non-SMN tactic

Before soloing this with SMN was fairly common, people liked to go in with two RNG's and a healer. The healer would use Barwatera and keep everyone alive while the RNG's stood with their backs to the wall of the circle at the head of the arena so they couldn't be knocked back.

This was pre-nerf, though, when distance didn't matter and mobs had lower ranged defense. I'm not sure what distance this would put the pugils at when standing at the arena, so I couldn't recommend which weapon to use.

Leveling SMN to 20 isn't as bad or as slow as it sounds. Skip Valkurm and solo to 20, if need be. If you party at those levels, you'll most likely just get frustrated.

[Ziero]

Re: BCNM20 Shooting fish- looking for a non-SMN tactic

The only time I did this was with a Smn so I can't give advice towards how to win without one. BUT! I will say that the Smn far from did all the work. Once the Smn 2 houred, me and another friend, both Wars, started to /ra one Pug. It died very fast and allowed us to get close enough to melee the other two. All in all Ramuh was more of a tank then a DD as he only got to use 2 of his AF attacks and the second one was just thrown in for the hell of it. So if you don't want to be walked through it by a Smn, make sure you have a decent /ra weapon and capped skill in it. Once one fish goes down, the other two become much easier.

[Zamphire]

Re: BCNM20 Shooting fish- looking for a non-SMN tactic

The only time I did this was with a Smn so I can't give advice towards how to win without one. BUT! I will say that the Smn far from did all the work. Once the Smn 2 houred, me and another friend, both Wars, started to /ra one Pug. It died very fast and allowed us to get close enough to melee the other two. All in all Ramuh was more of a tank then a DD as he only got to use 2 of his AF attacks and the second one was just thrown in for the hell of it. So if you don't want to be walked through it by a Smn, make sure you have a decent /ra weapon and capped skill in it. Once one fish goes down, the other two become much easier.

One summoner can actually solo this, infact I do it quite often. Just run up, get a yag drink, Astral Flow, Judgement Bolt, hope ramuh lives, if he doesn't run down and resummon, then JB again and you win.

[Ziero]

Re: BCNM20 Shooting fish- looking for a non-SMN tactic

One summoner can actually solo this, infact I do it quite often. Just run up, get a yag drink, Astral Flow, Judgement Bolt, hope ramuh lives, if he doesn't run down and resummon, then JB again and you win.

Oh I know, i'm quite well aware of that. I had a few friends who lvled Smn who would do these occasionally way back when. They said if someone provided an orb they'll win the fight for them for a small percentage of the winnings, if they were good at least. At the time I vehemetly denied doing this for the same reasons the OP did, I didn't want to be walked through it.

Eventually I got a serious interest in getting myself a mannequin along with two other friends so I swallowed my pride and said to hell with it. I just went along with being babied by a Smn. Well while in the fight I got bored and started attacking the fish with /ra attacks and they went down surprisingly fast. So even if I wasn't needed there, I was sure as heck holding my own. Combine that with the multiple LS garrisons I lead ( my LS) and the other two BCNMs involved, both of which I played a major part in winning, and I have no shame about owning my brand new mannequin.

Though a word of warning to any Smn thinking of soloing this. Make sure you do not mess up on this very important aspect.

Drink Yag drink THEN Astral flow. Ramuh will survive a long time HP wise, but if you run out of MP you will get eaten. I learned that the hard way when me and a friend tried to duo it. He ran outta MP, Ramuh said 'f u', and the fish went straight for him. It was real messy...

[Zamphire]

Re: BCNM20 Shooting fish- looking for a non-SMN tactic

Oh I know, i'm quite well aware of that. I had a few friends who lvled Smn who would do these occasionally way back when. They said if someone provided an orb they'll win the fight for them for a small percentage of the winnings, if they were good at least. At the time I vehemetly denied doing this for the same reasons the OP did, I didn't want to be walked through it.

Eventually I got a serious interest in getting myself a mannequin along with two other friends so I swallowed my pride and said to hell with it. I just went along with being babied by a Smn. Well while in the fight I got bored and started attacking the fish with /ra attacks and they went down surprisingly fast. So even if I wasn't needed there, I was sure as heck holding my own. Combine that with the multiple LS garrisons I lead ( my LS) and the other two BCNMs involved, both of which I played a major part in winning, and I have no shame about owning my brand new mannequin.

Though a word of warning to any Smn thinking of soloing this. Make sure you do not mess up on this very important aspect.

Drink Yag drink THEN Astral flow. Ramuh will survive a long time HP wise, but if you run out of MP you will get eaten. I learned that the hard way when me and a friend tried to duo it. He ran outta MP, Ramuh said 'f u', and the fish went straight for him. It was real messy...

Yea, out of the 20 or so times I've done it, I've only had ramuh die once or twice, probably went on wrong day or something, but it's fairly easy.

[eikichi]

Re: BCNM20 Shooting fish- looking for a non-SMN tactic

What's so wrong with being "babied" on something you don't have the correct job for? If you -truely- want an item so bad, you'd look past that and just worry about having your friend winning. There's really nothing wrong with asking people to help you do things. I'm sure alot of people have been "babied" when it comes down to missions, quests, etc.

[Taskmage]

Re: BCNM20 Shooting fish- looking for a non-SMN tactic

There's nothing wrong with asking for help when it's needed, but wanting to do things for yourself as much as possible is a healthy attitude, too. If you need someone else to fulfull your dreams it loses its value, wouldn't you agree?

[Telera]

Re: BCNM20 Shooting fish- looking for a non-SMN tactic

I've always duoed it w/ another summoner just to save myself the gil on Yag Drinks. Though one time she d/c'd mid fight and then it all went to hell. We brought along my b/f (drg/war) but he didn't get much of a chance to do anything before the two AF's annihilated the fish. SMN is probably the easiest of the tactics now. If you want minimal trouble since the only guaranteed good drop is the Head. Though I've had Thunder Pact and even Warp drop from it, too. So you get lucky sometimes.

I don't know if they can be charmed, I've never tried. Or even heard anyone really say anything about it.

I also have no idea how much a Mannequin Head is really worth on my server. No one I ask knows, I can never find one in a bazaar, so I sold it for 200k, that seemed to work, so I went with that.

[Taodyn]

Re: BCNM20 Shooting fish- looking for a non-SMN tactic

I used to regularly sell the head for 500K-600K. A friend and I would ran this on a daily basis for a week and I never went more than 24 hours without selling.

Once, a SAM friend of mine was in serious need of cash, so I offered to solo it for him if he provided the orb. In the end, both the head and body drop and he makes 1.2 million.