Why are NAs obsessed with Valkurm?

[Macht]

Re: Why are NAs obsessed with Valkurm?

Or just for the sense of accomplishment. Bear in mind that that motivation doesn't necessitate bragging.

But more often then not it does. What sense of accomplishment is there really to do the same run of the mill thing that many before you have already done? Depends greatly on your views and how your culture guided you. My families culture always strives for new thing or taken the path less traveled. Probably explains why all my aunt's, uncle's, and grandparents are big on inventions. Some of them even working in the technical development area.

For me and the culture I'm around a sense of accomplishment is acheiving your own path and having fun in the journey. Not just shooting to reach the journey's end and considering the end solely as the acomplishment.

Really what acomplishment is there if you reach the top but have abandoned everything and everyone in the process?

[Queen Uma]

Re: Why are NAs obsessed with Valkurm?

Can understand players being nervous to try an area they are unfamiliar with for EXP'ing. I can't agree with their down right refusal to try it though. For me it's more of a display of them lacking an exploring nature, so in essence not playing the game for just the simple sake of experiencing it. More playing the game in attempt to reach some form of bragging right to rub in people's faces.

I wasn't saying they "refuse" to try other areas but more along the lines of wanting to get from x level to y level in the quickest possible manner given that they have already experienced those level numerous times before and as everyone often says "the dunes are hell".

To be honest I would actually say Kor Tunnel present less of an explorational challenge than the dunes. As Maju said "Its in Bastok". Pretty boring to get there really.

Nature of such presents itself when you see how many of the stuck up high levels and the quantity of them being the similar quantity that refused to try new areas (Stating by my own statistical observation of players I know in game).

I whole heartedly agree with this. The overall shift towards level 75 for the vast majority of players has led to an increase in snobbish behaviour. The mentality of "I've got this, this and this to 75 so I know what I'm doing" is prevalent in the majority of parties these days, with players refusing to accept advice even when given by someone who has more experience at the particular job they are currently playing.

As I said to my friend earlier tonight after a party member opened the whole "Dia cancels Bio debate"......

"Getting rank 10 is like a holiday to Blackpool, put your brain in the fridge before you go."

[Shopee]

Re: Why are NAs obsessed with Valkurm?

But more often then not it does. What sense of accomplishment is there really to do the same run of the mill thing that many before you have already done? Depends greatly on your views and how your culture guided you. My families culture always strives for new thing or taken the path less traveled. Probably explains why all my aunt's, uncle's, and grandparents are big on inventions. Some of them even working in the technical development area.

For me and the culture I'm around a sense of accomplishment is acheiving your own path and having fun in the journey. Not just shooting to reach the journey's end and considering the end solely as the acomplishment.

Well, it's hard for me to explain really. Sometimes it's my motivation. I see something I want to achieve and go for it. The path there doesn't need to be fun or interesting. Usually it's less specifically "I'm happy because I accomplished something" and more "I accomplished this thing". Why they accomplished that thing can be from varied motivations.

Really what acomplishment is there if you reach the top but have abandoned everything and everyone in the process?

But is that necessary to accomplish something? Don't mistake it for an Ends-justify-the-means attitude.

[Macht]

Re: Why are NAs obsessed with Valkurm?

I wasn't saying they "refuse" to try other areas but more along the lines of wanting to get from x level to y level in the quickest possible manner given that they have already experienced those level numerous times before and as everyone often says "the dunes are hell".

To be honest I would actually say Kor Tunnel present less of an explorational challenge than the dunes. As Maju said "Its in Bastok". Pretty boring to get there really.

I know but I like to exadurate the stated conditions sometimes. A player may be familiar with the dunes and so feel it to be the best exp method, but not even attempting to the spot a shot is still a refusal. Even when a statement is made that they can make more exp there which in essence is "to get from x level to y level in the quickest possible manner" it may not be that they already experienced leveling in that area.

Really though in the case of korroloka tunnel and the Maze were you have tunnels of non aggressive mobs, you can easily pick off the exp mobs. With less worry of bad links, and other troubles that occure in the dunes.

Double Post Edited:

But is that necessary to accomplish something? Don't mistake it for an Ends-justify-the-means attitude.

You just did that though:

Well, it's hard for me to explain really. Sometimes it's my motivation. I see something I want to achieve and go for it. The path there doesn't need to be fun or interesting. Usually it's less specifically "I'm happy because I accomplished something" and more "I accomplished this thing". Why they accomplished that thing can be from varied motivations.

You just stated that the path doesn't matter as long as you reached the end as the acomplishment.

[Shopee]

Re: Why are NAs obsessed with Valkurm?

Double Post Edited:

But is that necessary to accomplish something? Don't mistake it for an Ends-justify-the-means attitude.

You just did that though:

Well, it's hard for me to explain really. Sometimes it's my motivation. I see something I want to achieve and go for it. The path there doesn't need to be fun or interesting. Usually it's less specifically "I'm happy because I accomplished something" and more "I accomplished this thing". Why they accomplished that thing can be from varied motivations.

You just stated that the path doesn't matter as long as you reached the end as the acomplishment.

No, I stated how fun it was and how interesting it was didn't matter, not that the path itself was irrelevant.

Just because I don't care if it is fun or interesting doesn't mean I'm about to disregard people for the purpose of the accomplishment. Therefore the ends do not necessarily justify the means.

[Queen Uma]

Re: Why are NAs obsessed with Valkurm?

Even when a statement is made that they can make more exp there which in essence is "to get from x level to y level in the quickest possible manner" it may not be that they already experienced leveling in that area.

If we are talking about the experience session as a whole, I contend that Kor tunnel and the maze do not yield faster experience to a pickup party.

Think about it, low level players have very few travel options. Even if they have a chocobo licence they can only use the stables in a starter nation. You have to find party members in some sort of centralised location so for arguments sake we'll say Jeuno. They can't take chocobos from Jeuno so they'll have to get a teleport-dem. From there they have to run through Gustaberg to Bastok, into the mines and down into Kor Tunnel. Find a spot to start levelling, assuming of course someone had the foresight to make sure the area had only a couple of parties there already.

Only after all this can they actually gain some experience. Now in the dunes its simplier. Everyone is already congrigated there. You grab what you can for a party get to a spot and level. The whole process is so much faster, eventhough you may make less xp per hour than Kor tunnel, you haven't spent the first hour getting everything sorted and finding your xp location.

Also a side point most people forget is deaths. They happen no matter how experienced the players are. In Kor tunnel you can aggro bats from lower down or fall off the ledge into trouble. Now I know that a death and a home-point at those levels don't even make a dent in your xp but how often do people sit waiting for a raise regardless of their hp being 2 steps away?

The dunes is constantly full of activity with players heading for Selbina or Gustav tunnel not to mention the absurd number of powerlevellers making some easy gil. Its far easier to get that raise in VD than Kor.

[Szkol]

Re: Why are NAs obsessed with Valkurm?

Well I'm not sure how much help I'll be to the discussion, but I've had the gme for almost a week now, and late last night I was feeling adventurous and decided not to wait for a party to escort me to the dunes from Bastok. I found myself a map and made the walk myself, and I've got to say it was quite a learning experience. If nothing else, the journey to Valkurm showed me exactly why it was necesary to train as a party instead of solo; the enemies were WAY harder than I had imagined.

Once I got to the dunes, I saw a bunch of folks standing around that all had a very strange looking linkshell... a green question mark? I quickly discovered that these were folks looking to join parties! I was quickly able to find a party (at 3 AM), that comprised mostly of other beginnners who were even lower-leveled than myself (I was level 11). I think we consisted of a Lv. 10 TaruTaru Monk, a Lv. 14 Hume Warrior, 2 Lvl 11 RDMs (Myself as 1 of them), a Lv. 10 Taru BLM, and a Lv. 10 Taru WHM. I was surprised to see so many Tarus at the Dunes, because it looks like quite a long trip to make when I looked on the Region Map.

All of us gained great XP, currently I'm about 1000 points shy of Lv. 14 after about 2.5 hours of playing last night. I learned alot as well! I learned that I was a pretty crappy RDM, my Elemental was around 13, my Enfeebling was 14, Dark was 3, and Heal was 1, whereas the other RDM had most of his magic skill points up in the mid 20s. I had definitely been relying too much on my sword! By the end of the night though, most of my skills were nearly double what they had been, and my spells were becoming much more potent, and I found that the various Goblins in the area were able to resist my enfeebling magic less and less often!

But wait there's more! I also learned how to make macros! What a cool thing that is. I quickly found out how valuable they were in communicating quickly with the rest of my party, especially the other RDM, since we often attempted to cast the same enfeebling magics. I made a macro specifying which person I was about to heal for instance, so that the other RDM or the WHM wouldn't waste their mana by casting a 2nd time, and the other RDM and I found a great way to trade information about which enfeebles we were casting, so as to cut down on wasted MP bewteen us. The result was that the other RDM and I developed a great pattern, and it really helped move the fights along more quickly b/c we were both able to start nuking earlier in the fight as a result.

All in all, I think the above sort of describes why Valkurm is so popular.... most of us were first timers to party-leveling and first-timers in the dunes, but we were able to trade what information we had to each other and help each other out, and we had great success. And the rate of XP gain is nothing short of incredible. Everyone seems to know where the dunes are, how to get there, and at least has some idea of how things work once you get there. I learned alot by jumping right in, and from what it sounds like, the other regions aren't really so populated as the dunes, which to me, says that it would be harder to learn the ropes.

Sorry for the long post!

[Shopee]

Re: Why are NAs obsessed with Valkurm?

Well I'm not sure how much help I'll be to the discussion, but I've had the gme for almost a week now, and late last night I was feeling adventurous and decided not to wait for a party to escort me to the dunes from Bastok. I found myself a map and made the walk myself, and I've got to say it was quite a learning experience. If nothing else, the journey to Valkurm showed me exactly why it was necesary to train as a party instead of solo; the enemies were WAY harder than I had imagined.

Once I got to the dunes, I saw a bunch of folks standing around that all had a very strange looking linkshell... a green question mark? I quickly discovered that these were folks looking to join parties! I was quickly able to find a party (at 3 AM), that comprised mostly of other beginnners who were even lower-leveled than myself (I was level 11). I think we consisted of a Lv. 10 TaruTaru Monk, a Lv. 14 Hume Warrior, 2 Lvl 11 RDMs (Myself as 1 of them), a Lv. 10 Taru BLM, and a Lv. 10 Taru WHM. I was surprised to see so many Tarus at the Dunes, because it looks like quite a long trip to make when I looked on the Region Map.

All of us gained great XP, currently I'm about 1000 points shy of Lv. 14 after about 2.5 hours of playing last night. I learned alot as well! I learned that I was a pretty crappy RDM, my Elemental was around 13, my Enfeebling was 14, Dark was 3, and Heal was 1, whereas the other RDM had most of his magic skill points up in the mid 20s. I had definitely been relying too much on my sword! By the end of the night though, most of my skills were nearly double what they had been, and my spells were becoming much more potent, and I found that the various Goblins in the area were able to resist my enfeebling magic less and less often!

But wait there's more! I also learned how to make macros! What a cool thing that is. I quickly found out how valuable they were in communicating quickly with the rest of my party, especially the other RDM, since we often attempted to cast the same enfeebling magics. I made a macro specifying which person I was about to heal for instance, so that the other RDM or the WHM wouldn't waste their mana by casting a 2nd time, and the other RDM and I found a great way to trade information about which enfeebles we were casting, so as to cut down on wasted MP bewteen us. The result was that the other RDM and I developed a great pattern, and it really helped move the fights along more quickly b/c we were both able to start nuking earlier in the fight as a result.

All in all, I think the above sort of describes why Valkurm is so popular.... most of us were first timers to party-leveling and first-timers in the dunes, but we were able to trade what information we had to each other and help each other out, and we had great success. And the rate of XP gain is nothing short of incredible. Everyone seems to know where the dunes are, how to get there, and at least has some idea of how things work once you get there. I learned alot by jumping right in, and from what it sounds like, the other regions aren't really so populated as the dunes, which to me, says that it would be harder to learn the ropes.

Sorry for the long post!

That was a very good post, it contributed, and welcome to the forums (I also see it was your first post)!

This is a valuable insight into the mindset of exactly the person in question, thank you for your time! (^_^)

[Oogami]

Re: Why are NAs obsessed with Valkurm?

Szkol, welcome to Vana'Diel.

I hope that this good attitude of yours remain for the whole stint of your adventure here.

As for the dunes, I like to go there and chat with some lowbies when I party. It is a pretty good place to get to know people. You get to see who is going to be noobs, and who is not. (Remember, noobs are not newbies.)

[Queen Uma]

Re: Why are NAs obsessed with Valkurm?

Hello Szkol,
It's nice to hear that you had a good experience in the dunes, thank you for sharing it with us. I think your post is the exact answer to Maju's question, its honest, has some very good observations and clearly as a first timer you haven't been tainted by the "xp grind" like the rest of us.

Anyway I hope you continue to have good experiences and enjoy the game. Red mage is a great job (I'm one myself ) and its lots of fun.

I was surprised to see so many Tarus at the Dunes, because it looks like quite a long trip to make when I looked on the Region Map.

Hehe not all taru are from Windurst

[Spinnthrift]

Re: Why are NAs obsessed with Valkurm?

Hehe not all taru are from Windurst

Yes they are.. the others are just spies we've sent out to infiltrate the ranks of other nations so truly shall Windurst dominate the plains and mountains and seas of Vana'diel!

Back on topic...

I like the Dunes... Sure, you get n00bs. Lots of n00bs. But you get decent people too... I've made more friends who've been friends my entire FFXI career through that place than anywhere else (even my LS was founded from that place).

The place was where I first learned to skillchain, first saw really the benefits of partying, first learned about MB's, first learned to pull... first for everything.

I've had awesome party's at Korro, and some ill fated ones there too... I've had awesome party's at VD, and ill fated ones too...

I'm not going to say JP this or NA that or EU the other... because everyone knows EU are just cool, even if we're not ubar! Good leaders can pick good camps with good people, and make the most of any situations, and bad leaders can't. Good players can react and support and communicate and listen - and each locale has merit and flaw.

If I see a group in Valkurm - and can build something decent around them... I know the camps and routes to take to make a good party there. Why should I want to drag people to Korro, knowing that odds are, they won't be able to travel there as fast or safely as me, would risk dying, would lose gaming time... just because... it's a better camp when the camps available are good enough?

This isn't the higher levels where you need thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of exp per level. A moderate party at this level will net you 4 - 6k an hour, which is a fair level or two over the duration of an average party. In Valkurm, good is just that, good.. it's not meripo level exp, but it shouldn't need to be... you're not 75, but people definately seem in a rush to be there yesterday.

Why Valkurm, because it's a sunny beach resort instead of a dank cave - that's why. Sun > Darkness... and I need to work on my tan.

[Szkol]

Re: Why are NAs obsessed with Valkurm?

clearly as a first timer you haven't been tainted by the "xp grind" like the rest of us.

....sigh I wish that were true. I can safely say that I'm new to the XP grind in FFXI, but certainly not new to the XP grind in general. At least in FFXI it FUN... and even if you do get bored grinding there's a very simple solution... change jobs! The last MMO I played did not allow for that option, and I think that's one thing that really makes FFXI stand out from any other game I've ever played. The solution before was always to start a new char.... and though I haven't had occasion to switch jobs yet, I rather think I'll enjoy it.

Anyways, another thing I learned playing yesterday, there's quite an assortment of equipment to choose from. I'm afraid mine was woefully sub-par, so After I made it to Lv. 15 yesterday I walked all the way back to Bastok and spent about every cent I had. I think I'm going to have to spend a few days there synthing/selling copper ingots so I won't have to worry about cash whereever I go.

I also learned that different enfeebles are better depending on what sort of party you're in. I used to do a sort of cookie cutter assortment of spells at the beginning of every fight: Bind, Blind, and Bio, then on to nuking or healing. Apprently Dia is better than Bio (?) and I shouldn't be Binding, instead I should Paralyze(?). I don't have it all worked out yet, but I was told by some pretty high-leveled folks who were working on their low-level jobs in the Dunes. It's nice to see that not only newbies go there, but also that the high-leveled folks too, and they were very welcoming and helpful!

[Ellipses]

Re: Why are NAs obsessed with Valkurm?

I also learned that different enfeebles are better depending on what sort of party you're in. I used to do a sort of cookie cutter assortment of spells at the beginning of every fight: Bind, Blind, and Bio, then on to nuking or healing. Apprently Dia is better than Bio (?) and I shouldn't be Binding, instead I should Paralyze(?). I don't have it all worked out yet, but I was told by some pretty high-leveled folks who were working on their low-level jobs in the Dunes. It's nice to see that not only newbies go there, but also that the high-leveled folks too, and they were very welcoming and helpful!

Good to hear you've been having a positive experience there!

In case your parties didn't tell you why you should and shouldn't cast certain enfeebles...

Bio is DoT and lowers the mob's attack. Dia is DoT and lowers the mob's defense. They don't stack, and Bio overpowers Dia (meaning once Bio is on the mob, there's no way to get Dia on it). In general, a mob having lower attack only benefits one person at a time (whoever it's attacking). But lower defense means everyone hits harder, so it dies faster. In most cases, Dia will end up causing less curing needed overall, and really, that's the whole point of enfeebling: Spend a few MP on Dia so you don't have to spend several more MP curing.

Bind only holds the mob in one place. Your melee and tanks will be doing that anyway. The only time it's going to run around is if the tank loses hate (which does happen), but by the time that happens, bind has almost always worn off, and takes too long to recast compared to the tank and/or melee doing something to get hate back.

Paralyze occasionally completely stops a mob's actions. Instead of attacking, it will just stand there for that round. On most enemies, Paralyze kicks in often enough that it is definitely worth casting. It's especially sweet when Paralyze kicks in on a mob's TP move like Bomb Toss (though that's kind of rare).

When you get them, Slow and Gravity are also excellent. And Silence for mage mobs (in the Dunes, that's Goblin Gamblers and Goblin Leechers).

[Macht]

Re: Why are NAs obsessed with Valkurm?

As insightfull as Szkol's experience was, I do have to point out most of the macro learning stuff and party experience generally happens around 10-13 anyways. Some people experience it earlier, but no matter what job you do once you hit lv. 7 there is a clear difference in the solo performance.

Also to point out his experience is an after the US community started the whole dunes thing. Obviously heard that dunes was the place to go and so followed the crowed. To gain about 2.6 levels in 2.5 hrs is fairly normal for Dunes, my first time playing and experience was in the maze between my 10-20 levels.

I learned how to make macro's there and with the party members I had could evaluate how I was doing to how they were doing. The difference was even with no experience at first of the maze I had made 3 levels in 1.5 hrs. The one thing not learned in maze is the idea of setting up a camp and having 1 person pulling the mobs to you.

Really though pulling is so easy it is one of the few things that takes time to learn. You can build it up to do some sick tricks with pulling. Like being able to pull a mob while sustaining invis long enough to get past another mob that'll sight aggro you, or even doing this with sneak. It's easier said then done especially without gravity on the mob. That kind of pulling tricks are hardly need to know, most people that pull mobs never even practice to that level.

Double Post Edited:

No, I stated how fun it was and how interesting it was didn't matter, not that the path itself was irrelevant.

Just because I don't care if it is fun or interesting doesn't mean I'm about to disregard people for the purpose of the accomplishment. Therefore the ends do not necessarily justify the means.

I stated that you did make the Ends-justify-the-means attitude in that as long as you reach the end weather you had fun in doing it or not didn't matter.

You did put that attitude in there just it wasn't to as extreem a point as I put as abandoning everything and everyone.

[Shopee]

Re: Why are NAs obsessed with Valkurm?

Double Post Edited:


I stated that you did make the Ends-justify-the-means attitude in that as long as you reach the end weather you had fun in doing it or not didn't matter.

You did put that attitude in there just it wasn't to as extreem a point as I put as abandoning everything and everyone.

Let's clarify a little something.

When I say Ends-justify-the-means attitude I mean the ends really justify the means, no matter what the means involve and without exception. Otherwise it would logically follow that, in fact, the means have supreme veto power over the ends (although this overriding factor does not necessarily come into play.)

An ends-justify-the-means attitude is (when I say it), as you phrased it, when you reach the means even at the expense of abandoning everyone and everthing. If reaching the ends by doing so is illegitimate in the motivation being described then it is quite obvious that the means are ultimately the largest deciding factor there is.

However, if you want to specify, then yes, the ends (achievement) do justify the means not being particularly fun for me.

I don't see that as a problem at all. It's a matter of taste in motivation and has hardly any effect on anyone beyond me (or others that share a similiar motivational attitude)