Please give things a chance

[Queen Uma]

Sorry if this isn't the right boad, I have been searching for a thread related to this but I couldn't find one and this seemed like an appropriate place to put it. Also I apologise if this is long.

Ok how to start this? Hmm how about a question.

Is everyone so stuck in the mindset of their high level job that they can't adapt to how things work pre 50 or are they all just forgetful?

I just walked away from a party with my 40drk. Now I rarely walk away from parties, I always try to make them work, no matter how bad they are, and my main is rdm so its not like I couldn't get a fast invite if I did drop pts more often. The party setup was pretty good; nin, thf, whm, rdm, cor, drk (me). The problem was the attitudes within the party (all rank6+ except the rdm).

So, I got an invite from someone asking me to meet them in Crawler's Nest to replace a member. I hopped on a chicken and set off to CN. Got the invite about halfway across Rol Fields so I thought I would use my travelling time to discuss tactics.

I had the following weapons with me (all capped skills from my warrior);
Horror Voulge, Mutilator, Ice Brand.

I asked the party which weapon they would prefer me to use, hinting that Great Axe would benefit the party more given the stats of my weapons and both Sturmwind and Shield Break weapon skills. They responded with alot of "lolz" and "Drks use scythe" so I equipped my Mutilator as I entered CN.

We ventured down to the Soldier Crawler room and began to fight. I noticed the party were missing alot (I had Woodsman ring, Tilt Belt, Bream Sushi and lots of +dex from RSE). I believe I was actually out tp-ing the ninja who was my SC partner (Blade:rin >> Nightmare Scythe = Distortion).

On about the fifth Crawler (after we managed to make chain #1) I suggested that it would speed things up if I switched to GA and used Shield Break at the start of every battle. After much um-ing and ah-ing I convinced them to let me try, so I switched got to 100% and used it. The miss rate of the party dropped through the floor and my damage was consistant (if not better) with that of my scythe. I was actually able to still SC with the Nin being able to get a Sturmwind out mid fight and gain enough tp for a break at the start of the next one.

We must of killed another 5-6 Crawlers when the thf suddenly decided he had enough of me using my GA and went on the offensive saying that I "have" to use scythe and that he was a drk main and knew what was best for the party. Once the thf started the rest of the party decided to quip in again saying I was a "n00b" for using a GA and that my damage sucked.

An argument broke out and the exp stopped altogether so I switched back to scythe and we continued. The kills slowed right down again and the miss rate went right up. It was at this point when the rdm (who hadn't said anything until now) said "I think we were better off earlier". The high ranks all turned on the rdm calling him a "n00b" saying he was just as bad as me and that he couldn't have an opinion on the situation because he had never levelled drk. In actual fact they got very offensive at the rdm, who was doing a good job (melee and casting) and was willing to listen to advice.

The rdm clearly upset disbanded and warped. The thf and nin now started slagging him off completely saying rdm shouldn't melee etc and that they would replace the "n00b" with one of their friends. I was promptly told that if I didn't use my scythe I would be kicked. So I disbanded and warped. Got a few angry /tells from them saying they would tell their HNMLS never to party with me etc. I just ignored them and logged to my mule to level my cooking.

So I will ask again

Is everyone so stuck in the mindset of their high level job that they can't adapt to how things work pre 50 or are they all just forgetful?

It is this mindset and inflexability that slowed the party down. It is their "I know all" attitude that caused the innocent rdm upset and forced him to stop his enjoyment (I checked after I warped, he had logged off). Just because somethign works one way in your merit/burn parties does not mean it has to work that way in lower level parties.

The previous party I had with my drk (all low ranks) were very happy I had a GA with me and skilled up. They were willing to let me try my GA, Scythe (Harvester til I hit 40) and GS to see what worked best on the particular mobs we were fighting (beetles).

Well I suppose thats my rant over. Gained 3 cooking levels whilst typing this so I am happier now.

Thanks for reading it, you may now all flame away if you wish.


Uma xx

[ikkleste]

Re: Please give things a chance

probelm as i see it is very often players just follow "what is done", and don't engage thier brain to think why it is done that way. If they did they'd be able to look at alternatives with a sensible eye rather than "that sub is gimped" or "DRK use Scyth LOlZ".

I'm currently toying with the idea of drg sub for my war. Once i get past 20 i want to have a look at how well Jump effects TP gain (especially since the adjustments, which were if i'm correct to fast (removal of floor) and slow weapons getting more TP/hit back now?) my theory is that with a slow weapon the extra TP from an extra hit could help TP a fair bit. I'll test it before i take it to a party, but even so i'm not expecting a good reception.

[Tirrock]

Re: Please give things a chance

If people were more open minded, you'd see so many more "Melee Job"/DRG or "Melee Job"/RNG from 20 to 29, when an extra provoke isn't needed.

And if so many people weren't stuck on "It works at high levels, so it must work at low levels" mindset, we'd have less pre-37 NIN solo tanking. As well as less DRK/THF before level 66, and less WAR/NIN before rampage/dual wield II.

To be honest, I'm amazed the whole party wasn't eating sushi, despite being level 40...

[Neo Geo]

Re: Please give things a chance

I have noticed that too. Some people, when they get higher in rank or level, they actually start to feel better than other people.. even in real life. And they don't even realize it. They become more aggressive, know-it-all and build up a fear of failing.. I don't know what it's called in english, but it means that they feel very scared about what other people think of them. Both in game and real life. I think that's where you cross the line and should take a break from FFXI. If you don't follow up to their standards in FFXI, they can get very cruel.

[Dragonly]

Re: Please give things a chance

Are you sure most of those member didn't buy their accounts?

[Neo Geo]

Re: Please give things a chance

Are you sure most of those member didn't buy their accounts?

Lol.. they get so stuck up that they look like noobs theirselves!

[Credos]

Re: Please give things a chance

Fact of the matter is that after 1, 2, or even 3 jobs at 75, exp is a means to an end. Its not the same fun you enjoyed on your first campaign to 75, its tedious, boring, and generaly sucks.

I am one of those people who would first leave or kick someone before wasting my time explaining why you should have a fully leveled sub, or why you shouldn't be subbing NIN pre 50, or why you should learn how to SC properly. Frankly its the playerbase's fault why people now are level 40 and have no idea how to do their jobs. CN is the new Dunes, with the powerleveling mentality that people have. Just the other day there was a SAM/BLU who tried to join my exp PT. I told him to go sub WAR, which he did. However, he didn't have any idea how to post TP, how to WS properly, or how to SC. In the end I kicked him from the PT and we ended up doing good exp per hour.

I may seem a bit like an elitist, and thats fine. But personally I'm tired of putting up with people who don't care about how well they play a game.

[Karinya]

Re: Please give things a chance

The OP doesn't say what level the rest of the party was, but Vana'diel Monsters lists soldier crawlers as 47-49. Seems a bit high for a level 40 pt to begin with (the 49s are over 200 base exp value, so you're not even getting all the exp they're supposed to be worth). I'd suggest sticking to beetles for another level or two. Beetles are 147-175 base exp for 40s, which is just about right - and you had a RDM, who can dispel half their tp moves.

Possibly the COR could make up for this with hunter's roll, but in general a level problem can't be solved with buffs.

On the other hand, if the rest of the pt was 41-42 and still getting out-tp'd by a DRK40 (and unable to hit crawlers as little as 5 levels above them!), then that's pretty sad.

In any case, if the party was having acc problems (on crawlers, one of the lowest eva mobs in the game for their level), shield break would definitely have been helpful and it's sad that they wouldn't let you use it. Especially after you tried it and it worked!

I hope that RDM sees this thread too and sees that the consensus of knowledgeable players is that you, and he/she, were right.

[Ryddr]

Re: Please give things a chance

On the other hand, if the rest of the pt was 41-42 and still getting out-tp'd by a DRK40 (and unable to hit crawlers as little as 5 levels above them!), then that's pretty sad.

Well, the Uma did say that she was SCing with a Nin, and at Lv40+ it can be very difficult for a Nin to gain TP, unless they intend to hold hate with melee attacks. Normally a Nin of that level will spend the majority of the fight casting ninjitsu (especially at the beginning) in an attempt to hold the hate firm. As a 42Nin, I generally don't break 100% tp in a single fight.

[Sigmara]

Re: Please give things a chance

Having fun is what matetrs the most I think, if peoples want to try "strange things", I'm often willing to try and see. However,, peoples should see when they are dead weights in a PT.

I'm more than fine with an average exp/hour if everyone is having fun and usually theses PT's last for a while. In opposite you have the PT with cookies cuters who are not happy because they just lost the chain or that you bomb cured and saved their butt instead of Diaing the mob.

When peoples are rude, I just won't waste my time with them.

[Maju]

Re: Please give things a chance

I enjoyed reading your post, Queenuma, but a critical ingredient is missing; names!

How do you exect them to change their attitudes if you don't give us the chance to inform them of their stupidity?

[Neo Geo]

Re: Please give things a chance

I agree with Sigmara. And Credos.. elitist is not fine, and even the word means "arrogant no-lifer", just sounds better. Though I do agree, after a while it's not all an "adventure" anymore. I can imagine, especially after 3 jobs at level 75 like you say, and level a lower leveled job, you just want exp and not dumb try-out things anymore. Though, I think if you're a so cool lv75, you should atleast be bothered to help a noob with things, and explain stuff. But yes, if he doesn't even care how well he does, kicking or leaving is appropriate.

[Queen Uma]

Re: Please give things a chance

The OP doesn't say what level the rest of the party was.

The others jobs were 41 except the whm who was also 40 with me. I made the point about beetles being good xp until we had 1-2 people level but they insisted on Crawlers. Overhunting is a huge problem in these kinds of parties but after the initial discussion about my choice of weapon I didn't want to push the idea of Beetles.

I am by no means knocking the abilities of any of the party members. They all did their jobs well for the most part. One point I neglected to mention was the Cor rolls. I asked for Hunter's roll at all times whilst the others wanted Corsair's roll (exp) and attack+ roll. I settled for missing Cor roll through my positioning but I got to keep Hunter's roll instead.

I hope that RDM sees this thread too and sees that the consensus of knowledgeable players is that you, and he/she, were right.

I just hope that he forgets them and gets on with enjoying the game. I sent him a red cape to hopefully cheer him up.

Well, the Uma did say that she was SCing with a Nin, and at Lv40+ it can be very difficult for a Nin to gain TP, unless they intend to hold hate with melee attacks. Normally a Nin of that level will spend the majority of the fight casting ninjitsu (especially at the beginning) in an attempt to hold the hate firm. As a 42Nin, I generally don't break 100% tp in a single fight.

The nin was getting a Splitshot >> SATA Viperbite >> Distortion onto him at the start of almost every fight. He MB'd it with his ninjitsu and that pretty much set the hate on him until SATA was ready again.

I enjoyed reading your post, Queenuma, but a critical ingredient is missing; names!

How do you exect them to change their attitudes if you don't give us the chance to inform them of their stupidity?

I'm sorry I don't play the name and shame game. I'm not Radio 2's traffic report after

[Neo Geo]

Re: Please give things a chance

I enjoyed reading your post, Queenuma, but a critical ingredient is missing; names!

How do you exect them to change their attitudes if you don't give us the chance to inform them of their stupidity?

I think this particular party he was talking about was more like a sample.

[XaviarCraig]

Re: Please give things a chance

On the original post: Yea I realize that people think that conventional high level way is the ONLY way no matter what level/job they are. Which is why I solo or party with BSTs most of the time! I get so sick and tired of people thinking there is only one way to skin a cat! There are always exceptions whether they like em or not!

Yes, conventional ways GENERALLY(Not always) work better because they are well known and many people have tested them

No, that does not justify saying anything else cant be done or is "NOOBISH"

If that stupid party(Minus the redmage who automatically is considered great because he actually listened) knew anything they would know that DRKs have a B+ in Great Axe.

Do you know what the difference between an B and an A is at 40?(Yes A and a B NOT a A+ and a B+ as the + or - doesnt make a difference till 60+) 5 skill levels!!! WOW 5 skill levels! which basicaly means you have -5 ATT and ACC, which can be made us easily by eating sole sushi! You get like 15% ACC and like 5STR. That pretty much compensates for it. And if that aint good enough for you, Get a Great Axe Belt. Its a level 30 item that gives you +5 to great axe skill IF you sub Warrior. That closes the skill level gap till around 47ish I believe.


That thief reminds me of this punk bitch mithra who wanted me to join her party. I was 56 with redmage soloing as RDM/BST. I was doing mighty fine in garlaige, no parties or other Beastmasters, chaining up to 3 or 4 no downtime ever, pulling about 3K exp an hour. I was enjoying my self throughly and chatting with my Beastmaster linkshell(Broke later because leader left /cry )
Anyhow, the mithra was a SAM/WAR or SAM/THF I cant remember, but she started bitching how I wouldnt be able to solo at 60 or higher(Which I proved otherwise recently, with video proof! ) and I need to conform to party standards.

Now... Keep in mind I had this message in my search comment: {Party}? {Thanks for the offer, but I will have to pass.} {I am playing solo right now.} and I wasnt /anon. Because when you are soloing you dont want to be /anon or people will move in without knowing and get pissed...

What really pissed me off, was her entire party started /tell(ing) me with threats and shit like that. They got so desperate that they accused me of hacking the game, and were going to call a GM unless I joined their party! They thought I was hacking because I was able to charm mobs at my level as RDM/BST(Pathetic really... )

/end rant!