Outside the Box (Unless You're On it)

[sevenpointflaw]

Pseudo rant here.

The level grind is bad enough when you have to spend hour after hour doing the same thing over and over in the same place job after job. But that doesn't mean it has to be all bad.

Sometimes, it pays to think outside the box. Case in point, my girlfriend's party today that pissed me off to no end. They were in the first jungle, level grinding on mandies. They didn't have a proper tank - in fact, they had a War/Mnk because that was available, but they were holding thier own just fine.

They were in that always nasty situation where the tank was the lowest member in the party, and the white mage was the highest - again, because that was what was available.

And of course, that meant that XP sucked because Gobs were too hard, mandies in second jungle were too hard, but outside the gates of Kaz the XP was crap because of the higher level white mage.

So after half an hour of seeing XP Chain #2 reaching a whopping 65 XP, they decided it was time for a change.

Alas, it was no to be. The leader was concinved in his all-knowing judgement that there was NO way anywhere would be good XP except the second jungle; which of course was bull. I could see my girlfriend's screen. I saw how poorly the tank would survive with double attack mandies that were too hard for her.

The party just -couldn't- handle that sort of damage. So my GF suggest three wonderful zones outside of Jeuno. Everyone was game to try it accept the leader of the party who of course couldn't be kicked even though at this point his party had mutanied (in part because he was acting like a total jack-ass about it; not just refusing but being insulting about it in the "I have a level 75 job, I know everything you are all newbs" sort of way).

FINALLY my girlfriend convinced them all to go out to Rolanberry Fields where they started taking on Zircon and Garnet Quadv, as well as Shamans, Pathfinders, and other gobs.

First kill, 175xp for the lowest person in the party, and with the slow hiting of the Quadv, they start some awesome chains. By the end of the first chain everyone was convinced after being politely reminded that people had to "level up somewhere other than Kaz before the expansions... Where do you think that was?"

SO, with everyone excited about the XP and ready to go... DING! Level up! {I'm sorry.} {Disbanding party.}


. . .

I was so pissed; pissed on behalf of my girlfriend who finally managed to get people to think outside the box and LIKE it, pissed off myself because I was hanging out helping manage links because no one was exactly sure where to camp, so now my time was lost too.

One chain, and the jackass bails. I can't remember exactly but I believe the excuse was, "Well, it took us so long to get out here, I don't have time now."

As if.

/fume

/ma "Death" <t>

Anyhow. Moral of the story... Just because you havn't done it doesn't mean it can't be done. There are literally camps in every zone. Its not hard to find them either. Think outside the box; you may be surprised and a simple change of scenery can make the level grind much more bareable.

[DrkMateo]

Re: Outside the Box (Unless You're On it)

Finally, pting somewhere else, sadly this trend is hard to break, certain habits like where to exp tend to to die hard with most people.

The mentality has always been (in my experience):

1-10 newb area outside town
10-20 Valkurm d00nz
20-25 Qufim
25-28 Yuhtunga
28-32 Yhoator
32-50 Crawler's Nest

I dun remember most of the other places I pted though, my memory is foggiest about where I pted from 50+, all I remember was and 55-57 in Cape Terrigan 58-60 in Valley sorrows. 60+ though it was always crowded in Labyrinth of Onzozo (mind you this was before CoP and Bibiki Bay) until 62. I pted form 62-66 in my all time fav leveling spot (Boyahda Tree) and then got to 70 on Tormentors in Den of Rancor.

I liked these spots because I rarely, if ever, saw anyone there. There was just this obsession with going to Bibiki bay because it was new, I hated Bibiki bay when I first went there. Hell I didn't like it until level 72+ when the dhalmels became prime exp fodder, right now roaming dhalmel pt's are my favorite exp mobs and they can make to 75 also, my pt's have mainly been tp spam or me doing SATA Spinning Slash to close Light which is near instant kill on these things.

But I tell you this much Pooka, right now people are obsessing about leveling in Aht Urgan, everyone has their hp in Whitegate and no one wants to come to the old places, here's a little gem of a conversation I had the other night:

Tp Spam pt setup:

Drk/sam (Me)
Nin/war
War/nin
War/nin
Whm/blm

Look at that setup and then remember this was for dhalmels, no damaging AoE, blinkable ws, and they Berserk and they are zerking in a tp spam pt.

I am talking to a brd and tell him the setup (his hp is in Aht Urgan)

Me: "Our pt is 5/6, just need a brd and we can really tear in to the dhalmels."
Brd: "But I don't wanna pt in the new areas..."
Me: "But I had this setup the other night and pulled 6-7k an hour..."
Brd: "But these areas are new... I hate the old places."
Me: "Well... what do you level on there?"
Brd: "I dun remember, but at least we're fighting something different."

At this point I did not respond to him because I had lost patience, so I just grabbed a brd friend of mine that had just logged in and we went and exped.

If you think people are obsessed over old areas, they get just as bad on new areas to. /sigh

[capitalistnihilist]

Re: Outside the Box (Unless You're On it)

There are a couple very good reasons why people are obsessed with the new areas for meripo.

1. Imperial Standing
2. AMAZING EXP

Honestly the mobs here make deco weapon tp spam pts look like valkrum dunes.

My pt last night: 4xNIN/WHM/BRD (2x NIN were 74, everyone else was 75).

First chain: #40
2nd Big Chain: #50~
Ending Chain: #45

The exp is crazy there and there are enough mobs to support 3+ TP burn pts all getting chain #20 plus (in Bhal. Thickets).

Add the fact that you get paid 200k gil per merit worth of IS to pt there and I could see why this bard was hesitant to go to bibiki bay. That and the fact that he is a bard and yours is probably just one in a long line of invites he'll get over the next 30 minutes >.<

[AngryUndead]

Re: Outside the Box (Unless You're On it)

I think "Thinking outside of the box" has become a bit of a trite expression with the FFXI crowd. The thing to remember is that the problem is still inside the box and must be dealt with.

I think what you really want, and what I would love, is a complete paradigm shift when it comes to choosing places to level. It was one thing, back in the day, to fight carefully only where your forefathers did. That way you wouldn't meet any nasty suprises.

Today, in Vana'Diel almost every corner of the "old" zones has been mapped fully and all the monsters carefully categorized. Now we know what the weaknesses are and how hard they hit. We know our level ranges.

A lot of that knowledge has been forgotten for zones like the ones surrounding Jueno. It might be worth it to crank out a guide for it.

For one, I think Mahura might be a better place to level from the mid-teens than the dunes.

The reason this issue is so near and dear to my heart is this: Monks (and other jobs too, I know) have craptacular accuracy. We don't penetrate armor well. Thats why this guide was created over on alla's for monks in the 50's range.

Its called "Make the 50's easier, hit the right mobs".

I really like this guide for monks in the 50's though I can rarely convince my parties to go with the locations suggested.

I'm thinking that a joint effort in making a guide that lists places, mobs, pro's, con's, strengths, weaknesses, and locations (maybe with a map) for 1-60 would be awesome, and beyond even better. For me 58 is an awkward stage because almost everyone I party with is parting there for the first time. It makes things interesting.

Please let me know what you guys think about such a guide. And then we can start working on it...

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: Outside the Box (Unless You're On it)

A good example of that is Bibiki Bay on Marine Dhalmels at high twenties. Mandies in the jugnles tear ninja a apart. Dhalmel hit so slow most ninja can go two battles, sometimes three without a single hit. I would love a guide like that, especially if it made people realize that XP = smart planning, not neccessarily partying where everyone else does.

I for one have gotten in the habbit of learning mobs - not zones - and using the somepage database to figure out where to go based on my party setup.

[DrkMateo]

Re: Outside the Box (Unless You're On it)

1. Imperial Standing
2. AMAZING EXP

Add the fact that you get paid 200k gil per merit worth of IS to pt there and I could see why this bard was hesitant to go to bibiki bay. That and the fact that he is a bard and yours is probably just one in a long line of invites he'll get over the next 30 minutes >.<

Question then, what is Imperial Standing and what do you mean about the merits?

My highest is 74 drk and I haven't done anything in Aht Urgan yet aside from get the pass and head there to get a look around, aside from that I haven't done anything else.

[AngryUndead]

Re: Outside the Box (Unless You're On it)

Imperial Standing is like Conquest Points for the new areas. About merits he probably means that he gets enough IS (Imperial Standing) during a leveling session to buy enough Aht Urgan currency that he can sell it for the 200k gil that he mentioned.

Thats better than I do farming, most days.

Bibiki Bay on Marine Dhalmels ... high twenties

Errr? Buburimu Peninsula? I didn't think you could do aynthing in Bibiki Bay unless you were in the high 60's to 70's... of course, I've never been there.

[Ellipses]

Re: Outside the Box (Unless You're On it)

I'm still all low-level and stuff, but on BRD 32-50 and WHM 30-40, I partied outside of Crawler's Nest a lot more than I partied inside it: Gustav Tunnel, Garlaige, East and West Altepa, Quicksand Caves. I don't think I was in the same place for more than two consecutive XP sessions.

Korroloka Tunnel and Buburimu are both great at lower levels, much better than the Dunes (though honestly with Bubu I'd largely chalk that up to lack of competition).

[AngryUndead]

Re: Outside the Box (Unless You're On it)

I'm still all low-level and stuff, but on BRD 32-50 and WHM 30-40, I partied outside of Crawler's Nest a lot more than I partied inside it: Gustav Tunnel, Garlaige, East and West Altepa, Quicksand Caves. I don't think I was in the same place for more than two consecutive XP sessions.

Korroloka Tunnel and Buburimu are both great at lower levels, much better than the Dunes (though honestly with Bubu I'd largely chalk that up to lack of competition).

You have either had the insane fortune of having good parties, or just plain having parties that know what the heck is going on.

Of course, in the dunes, I can never remember what to fight... it seems I only go there about once a year.

[Ellipses]

Re: Outside the Box (Unless You're On it)

You have either had the insane fortune of having good parties, or just plain having parties that know what the heck is going on.

Of course, in the dunes, I can never remember what to fight... it seems I only go there about once a year.

Yeah, pretty much. It was clear the party leaders had been to each of those places more than once, and/or recently.

And I think that statement about the Dunes sums up part of the problem. You don't really have to remember how to party in Crawler's Nest: Fight crawlers; Scorpions, shrooms, and higher-level crawlers aggro; your party won't want to fight the scorpions or shrooms, even though they probably can if they're the right level. Anyplace else, people have to actually know a little bit about it.

Which I guess is the point of trying to get guides going, eh?

[AngryUndead]

Re: Outside the Box (Unless You're On it)

Which I guess is the point of trying to get guides going, eh?

Too right.

So who wants to volunteer to set this up, I would, because I have time, but I know next to nothing about it... except to rip off of other people's guides. I would rather start one from scratch and read up here and there.

I'd need input from everyone and such.

I'd call it "Leveling Locations for Dummies v0.1".

If someone else would rather do it and has more expertise, step up fool! Otherwise, I'll post a format for the guide in my next post... And then go create it in the "Party..." forum.

Double Post Edited:

Leveling Locations for Dummies (0.1)

Leveleing Areas
Levels (NN-XX)
Valkrum Dunes
Locations: (Z-5) (D-9) (X-32)
Mobs: Pugil, Crabs
Notes: These mobs hit slow but hard, they don't seem to evade much
but they have high defense.

Appendix

Changelog:
[0.1] - Creation

Special Thanks:
~blah

Notes:
This guide is.....

Links:
To party etiquette guides and map guides and reference guides.


Let me know what you guys think and I'll create the template. Unless someone else has a better idea. I wish we could do a collabarative document and whatnot I also wish we had pre tags instead of these silly little indent increase/decrease things.

[Ellipses]

Re: Outside the Box (Unless You're On it)

Looks good to me. Maybe make the area names links to one of the database-y sites (somepage, ffxiclopedia, etc.)? Might want to include the levels of the mobs themselves, too. Like for Valkurm: Snippers (18-22), Beach Pugils (23-26).

[AngryUndead]

Re: Outside the Box (Unless You're On it)

I just updated it but accidentally forgot to submit after preview, then I closed the tab.

Anyway, I'll do it again when I get home, hopefully someone else will have more ideas by then.

[Murphie]

Re: Outside the Box (Unless You're On it)

Leveling outside of Jeuno is fantastic for that level range, provided you can get enough folks to go there with you. Back in early 2004 I ran my own LS, and I almost always picked the leveling locations for a group of us, since I was the only one willing to do some research on what was available. It was fantastic exp - competition free, and relatively easy kills. Plus, no fear that the level 24-25 job that you despearately need won't have his Kazham Keys.

I also had a lot of fun later on in Eldieme Necropolis fighting Gazers (great exp), in Behemoth's Dominion fighting Bats, in Yhoator Jungle near Ifrit's Cauldron in the mid 40s taking on Goblins (I didn't go into Crawler's Nest until Genkei 1), and so on. The hardest fights I've had in this game haven't been with mobs, but with convincing other "know all" players that there are places you can go other than Valkurm - Qufim - Jungles - Citadel - Crawler's Nest, etc. It seriously makes me crazy.

Also, I totally agree re: Buburimu being better exp at times than Valkurm. Fighting Hares and Mandies (experience for later?) near the Outpost (I'd avoid the birds until 14ish), moving on to the traditional Crabs, Pugils and Goblins if you like, but also taking on Crawlers and Pugils if you like are all fantastic exp, and great experience for your party.

In addition, I've heard of folks at that level getting EXP in places like Pashow and Jugner if they knew their party well and took on the right mobs, but I haven't ever done it myself. It's another of the forgotten older zones that really could use some re-exploration.

edited to add a submission to your guide:

Levels 18-20 (party) XX-XX (solo)

Sauromuge Champaign
Locations: (G-8) in the small nook there.
Mobs: Beetles

Notes: This camp can really only support one good party, or two parties who don’t mind slower exp. Any more than that and you’re really better off moving. PLD, WAR or NIN tank are all good here, as the beetles attack fairly slow. BLM is almost necessary for these, as their Elemental Magic can make short work of these mobs.

[AngryUndead]

Re: Outside the Box (Unless You're On it)

We are teh dumbs!

There it is. I think we could get a better guide going, better formating maybe and with notes on each level range and stuff, or a more concise list, but that list looks pretty kickass.

So, nevermind guys

Spread the word.