Holy Water Barrels Batman!

[PotentPotables]

Re: Holy Water Barrels Batman!

180+ Levels of Magecraft and I just NOW find this out...

Now it just sounds to me like INT and MND enhancing anything are just thrown in there for good measure. All of it sounds pretty pointless, save for not being lower than the MOB you're fighting.

[Taskmage]

Re: Holy Water Barrels Batman!

I had understood that all black magic is your INT vs mob's INT, and that white magic was MND vs MND. The stats used are unrelated to the school of magic being used (elemental, enfeeble, divine, ...). Is that not right?

[neighbortaru]

Re: Holy Water Barrels Batman!

All of it sounds pretty pointless, save for not being lower than the MOB you're fighting.

yup. that is why skill+ and M. Acc+ items are so greaat for much of the game.

I had understood that all black magic is your INT vs mob's INT, and that white magic was MND vs MND. The stats used are unrelated to the school of magic being used (elemental, enfeeble, divine, ...). Is that not right?

Generally i think it still holds true for damage and effect. It's just resists that are a little funky. Elemental resists seem to be related to skill, but Enfeeble resists seems to be a mixture of MND and skill.

[Aeni]

Re: Holy Water Barrels Batman!

Generally i think it still holds true for damage and effect. It's just resists that are a little funky. Elemental resists seem to be related to skill, but Enfeeble resists seems to be a mixture of MND and skill.

Am I to assume then that in the higher levels, when BLMs get more powerful and tend to not get resists as much (or the resists are only partial) that this is due in part to their equipment? (AF, staves, etc.) Interesting stuff. I guess I can feel a bit better about this then. I thought that my not being able to overcome those hurdles was my fault, when in reality, there really was nothing I could do at these pre-30 levels...

[Coinspinner]

Re: Holy Water Barrels Batman!

Am I to assume then that in the higher levels, when BLMs get more powerful and tend to not get resists as much (or the resists are only partial) that this is due in part to their equipment? (AF, staves, etc.) Interesting stuff. I guess I can feel a bit better about this then. I thought that my not being able to overcome those hurdles was my fault, when in reality, there really was nothing I could do at these pre-30 levels...

It's the items. Nude, resist rate will increase as you level due to the widening level gap between you and IT.

BLM power also ramps up later on because they go fewer levels between learning new nukes.

Lastly, I think either the Skill>>M.Accuracy calculation or the M.Accuracy>>Resist% calculation for direct damage spells may be more forgiving than it's melee counterpart.

[Khidir]

Re: Holy Water Barrels Batman!

When it comes down to worst get a nin or brd

[Aeni]

Re: Holy Water Barrels Batman!

It's the items. Nude, resist rate will increase as you level due to the widening level gap between you and IT.

BLM power also ramps up later on because they go fewer levels between learning new nukes.

Lastly, I think either the Skill>>M.Accuracy calculation or the M.Accuracy>>Resist% calculation for direct damage spells may be more forgiving than it's melee counterpart.

Oh, I see. Now that you put it that way, it kinda makes more sense. I agree that the higher the levels, the wider the gap in levels between the player and the IT monster the party is fighting, but I cannot help but notice that mages, BLM in particular, do not become adversely affected as their melee counterparts. The % decrease in damage as a melee between the first step in VT checks and in the first step in IT checks seem to be roughly 30% or so and then it's a steep progression where the 4th or 5th step in IT whittles the base damage of a melee by 2/3 or more. Basically saying that while you could put 3 digit #s consistently on each swing of a great axe on a T/VT mob, that becomes a 2 digit snore fest quickly in just a few steps of monster difficulty.

T *** VT ***** IT++
0.8 -- 0.65 -- 0.15~0.30

Those are my own estimates of how effectively a melee damages the monster beyond Even Match level (which is the absolute base for all calculations) For example, if I can consistently strike an even match monster for 125 damage points (I don't care what this weapon is), then this same monster at a T level will most likely receive only 100 damage. At VT level, this is about 81 damage while IT++ (Maybe about 8~9 levels higher than the player's own level) will receive 20~30 damage.

However, I notice that BLM's spells (nukes) seem to not degrade so rapidly in their damage potential. In fact, it almost seems ... constant.

T *** VT ***** IT++
0.9 -- 0.8 -- 0.5~0.7

So, a spell could do 800 damage to an Even Match and at IT++ may do about 500 or so damage. This subsequent loss in potency doesn't compare to the degradation melee suffers.

But at my level, this is what I'm witnessing so far ...

T *** VT ***** IT++
0.8 -- 0.6 -- 0.1~0.2

Again, not sure if something changed in monsters or if calculations get screwy beyond the 50s, or the original level cap of this game. >.>

(I suspect many things spiraled out of control after SE implemented additional content beyond the core 50 levels - That's not fact, that is mere speculation on my part, but one that I'm growing to believe with each passing day)

[Coinspinner]

Re: Holy Water Barrels Batman!

Oh, I see. Now that you put it that way, it kinda makes more sense. I agree that the higher the levels, the wider the gap in levels between the player and the IT monster the party is fighting, but I cannot help but notice that mages, BLM in particular, do not become adversely affected as their melee counterparts. The % decrease in damage as a melee between the first step in VT checks and in the first step in IT checks seem to be roughly 30% or so and then it's a steep progression where the 4th or 5th step in IT whittles the base damage of a melee by 2/3 or more. Basically saying that while you could put 3 digit #s consistently on each swing of a great axe on a T/VT mob, that becomes a 2 digit snore fest quickly in just a few steps of monster difficulty.

T *** VT ***** IT++
0.8 -- 0.65 -- 0.15~0.30

Those are my own estimates of how effectively a melee damages the monster beyond Even Match level (which is the absolute base for all calculations) For example, if I can consistently strike an even match monster for 125 damage points (I don't care what this weapon is), then this same monster at a T level will most likely receive only 100 damage. At VT level, this is about 81 damage while IT++ (Maybe about 8~9 levels higher than the player's own level) will receive 20~30 damage.

However, I notice that BLM's spells (nukes) seem to not degrade so rapidly in their damage potential. In fact, it almost seems ... constant.

T *** VT ***** IT++
0.9 -- 0.8 -- 0.5~0.7

So, a spell could do 800 damage to an Even Match and at IT++ may do about 500 or so damage. This subsequent loss in potency doesn't compare to the degradation melee suffers.

But at my level, this is what I'm witnessing so far ...

T *** VT ***** IT++
0.8 -- 0.6 -- 0.1~0.2

Again, not sure if something changed in monsters or if calculations get screwy beyond the 50s, or the original level cap of this game. >.>

(I suspect many things spiraled out of control after SE implemented additional content beyond the core 50 levels - That's not fact, that is mere speculation on my part, but one that I'm growing to believe with each passing day)

Actually I always thought magic damage was constant and doesn't gain damage because the monster is lower level or lose it because the monster is higher level. The variations in damage are so small I always attributed any difference in damage to INT difference between species and level. (Edit: Not saying I'm right, but if I'm wrong then the difference is still small enough for that mistake to be made.)

Resists are another thing, you do half damage, quarter damage, or piddly damage. I always hated Goblins because they have no weakness for BLMs so you see more resists than on other types. That and people expected me to stun while I'm either on my ass or casting the whole time. ><;

[Aeni]

Re: Holy Water Barrels Batman!

Actually I always thought magic damage was constant and doesn't gain damage because the monster is lower level or lose it because the monster is higher level. The variations in damage are so small I always attributed any difference in damage to INT difference between species and level. (Edit: Not saying I'm right, but if I'm wrong then the difference is still small enough for that mistake to be made.)

Resists are another thing, you do half damage, quarter damage, or piddly damage. I always hated Goblins because they have no weakness for BLMs so you see more resists than on other types. That and people expected me to stun while I'm either on my ass or casting the whole time. ><;

Well, maybe I'm confusing resist with damage reduction due to level differences between the caster and the monster. There's so much variations at low level and I don't even know exactly how I determine what is and what isn't a resist. It could also be possible to determine this with some field testing, but I'm too low in levels to do this reliably without help. =/

[Coinspinner]

Re: Holy Water Barrels Batman!

Well, maybe I'm confusing resist with damage reduction due to level differences between the caster and the monster. There's so much variations at low level and I don't even know exactly how I determine what is and what isn't a resist. It could also be possible to determine this with some field testing, but I'm too low in levels to do this reliably without help. =/

If your BLM has Sleep you can test on Even Matches safely. At the very least it will give you an approximation of what your damage should be, unresisted.

I noticed during the hell levels in Onzozo that the same spell (usually Stone III) would only vary on the same Torama by 2 points of damage. It was really easy to see the 1/2, 1/4, piddle nature of the resists. The change between different level Torama was more like 8 damage. After a while I could tell the level of the Torama by how much my first spell hit for.

[Bahamut Kaiser]

Re: Holy Water Barrels Batman!

Intel increases your elemental magic attack and defense, Mind increases your Light magic damage and resistance. Intel is your attack and defense for elemental magic. There are elemental and Light based debuffs, but for the most part, intel improves your enfeebling power. On the side, having armors with elemental resistance reduces magic damage from those elements and enfeebles associated with those elements.

The smithies are tough buggers, and wile you may beat one, your most likely to hit a stronger one which will kick your ass later, so don't take it as a sign to start fighting smithies. How strong the mobs are also depends on the time of day, and type of day it is. Some mobs are bad ass on certain days, and wimps on other days. I don't know which, but I imagine smithies are kick ass on firesday, and almost all mobs spawn stronger at night. So if you were kicking smithy ass one hr and getting your ass kicking back the next, it may have something to do with the day.

If you stack 20+ intel items like many blm at lower lvls, your probably going to blow holes in anything, just hope your mana doesn't run out before the enemy retaliates your helpless little taru Blm. Theres a reason all that intel+ gear has retarded prices. 200k for hume boots on my server, it was almost 400 when I quit playing, but its slowly going back down.