Is it mean to kick someone because...

[Aksannyi]

Re: Is it mean to kick someone because...

Are you sure that the RDM didn't know how to MB, as opposed to not having the time to cast that additional spell? I love MBing when I can, but I'd say that 75% of the time I'm busy casting something else when the skillchain comes up.

If the RDM didn't know that's one thing but if he/she DID know and just was too busy casting then that's excusable. I certainly don't expect the melees to wait for me to be done with my casting before they own the mob.

[nickofearth]

Re: Is it mean to kick someone because...

DRG > you

IMO it kinda depends on the situation. Gear that is a little low (IE I use HQ rings a set under what I should on my PLD because they are same stats as "current" nq would be and I don't have enough to upgrade yet.) or if they don't have a certain spell yet (ie stonega II) because it is too expensive. For things like ya lvl 10 scale mail in Kazham? Cent mail in the 40s?

I actually left a pt because a dragoon i was pting with on my drk (leveled it for a sub for my rdm) had no earrings, no rings, no waist, and like a bird whistle. I sent him a tell mentioning he should get some (spike necklace, bravebelt, beetle earrings +1, courage rings, etc) He got huffy... actually had a friend of his tell me off... a rdm with a gimp sub. He says he was too busy to go buy that stuff but claims... lol claims to have couple million gil. The pt lead, who was kinda gimp himself, started barking at me so i just left. There was a point to this story but... anyways ya there is a limit on the gear and spells that should be considered ok. (a 75 thf/nin with a fang necklace... XD boot that bish cause she is prob a RMT...seriously i saw a rmt wearing that.)

[Eauijhkuu]

Re: Is it mean to kick someone because...

I dont kick people for not having certain pieces of gear.
That's retarted.

But at the same time, I hate it when people don't show up with gear.
Or when they're 20+ levels behind on gear that you know is cheap and affordable.

But no. I judge players on their performance skills (Which surprisingly is almost heavily gear related with certain jobs), and if they can't do what they were invited to do, then I won't hesitate to kick them. No need to waste our time, and no need for us to waste yours either. Also, no need to endanger a party because you're acting gimpy.

A party is very much a group effort. So every and anything that you can bring to the forefront is going to benefit not only the party as a whole, but yourself as well.

SO yeah.

I'm not a jobbist.
I just hate gimps.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Is it mean to kick someone because...

If I'm in the leader role and I see someone in the PT not fufilling thier role in that PT, I have no qualms about kicking them. I by no means judge every last person by their gear, but sometimes the line has to be drawn, particularly with tanks, support and mages.

I mean, really, mages/support without much-needed spells just aren't acceptable. If WHMs want a NIN or PLD tank at Crawler's Nest, they'd better have Erase. Tanks should have up-to-date-armor at the very least. DDs should always try to keep weapons up-to-date and accuracy food on hand. (at 40+ on the food thing at least, if you can't get snipers, anyway)

Melees should always have sneak oil, prism powder or invisibility tools so the mages don't have to babysit them all the way to camp. I swear, ToA staging points has made melees so soft-headed that in the even we do go to a RoZ or CoP zone, they forget to bring this stuff, and most of them are in sea/sky/HNMLS - this is required stuff for those places and situations.

If someone in the PT drags it down and causes downtime, people have every right to kick them from PT. But then, a lot of the bad, seedy or just plain gimp players find a way around that - they make their own PTs. So many good players still lack the initiative to form their own groups and will take any invite they see. I almost always have a problem with a PT I'm invited to and the leader being /anon. Don't care if you're a BRD, RDM, NIN, PLD or whatever, if you're /anon when forming a PT it almost screams "I'm hiding my underlevelled subjob."

Finally if I have good reason to suspect somone in my PT is going to fake DC or RMT, I won't hesitate to kick or replace them. Had a SMN in my PT a few weeks back as COR, it was someone I didn't particularly (HNMLS sycophant, basically) didn't like but I wasn't going to punish the PT and leave since they did fufill my Evoker's Roll bonus, but deep down, I knew they'd ditch when their HNM called because Cerberus was up. 20 mins in, fake DC (which is like a three second redballing), twenty minutes later, they log in and do a little /cry when they see they've been replaced. It was likely gathering time.

Yeah whatever, I had already told the leader what was up. I knew another LS had engaged Cerb, but didn't let on and let SMN run to Cerb anyway so they could watch that LS kill it. Ha. Made sure they couldn't come back.

Then there was another PT a few days before that which turned out to be composed of 3 RMTs. Well, 2 of them were in a shell that's really boarderline RMT and bot claim (Titan players know which LS I refer to), leader of the shell charges a monthly fee and passes on gil he makes from them and certain drops to an RMT outlet. He's rebuilt the LS five times in the last year when members got wise to it. In short, these two were guilty by association, I had no sympathy for the 'em. Then there was the third, a guy part of a sky RMT shell that bot claims Ulli almost every time. All three kicked with no explaination.

And in both scenarios, when the replacements came, better EXP PT overall, go fig.

[Loial]

Re: Is it mean to kick someone because...

Ditching PTs for HNMLS events isn't unexpected. Its one thing to ditch your PT because "Oh, its sea/limbus/sky/etc time." Those are all scheduled events. Same with Kings. However, stuff like Tiamat and Cerberus, the hell you can catch if you ignore your LSs needs vs the hell you get from the other people in your PT is nothing in comparison.

But, you'd still be in the right to deny them an invite next time.

As for poor gear, I wouldn't kick someone unless their gear was substantially poor. Still wearing your Sandorian ring at 50? GTFO.

As for skill, I'm not adverse to helping new players out. They might not have the experience the veterans have and maybe they can pick something up. However, if they are slacking, GTFO.

[Eauijhkuu]

Re: Is it mean to kick someone because...

Ditching your party for events, and finding replacements to excuse yourself is a different thing.

Even if you really CAN'T find someone to replace you, to let the part leader know what's going on, instead of completely dismissing yourself at the last minute, is just a common courtesy.

You don't just up and tell your manager you're quitting without some kinda notice, do you?

Courtesy is lacking alot in today's parties.
And being gimpy isn't courteous at all.

[Omni]

Re: Is it mean to kick someone because...

I got kicked last night because a pt leader was being a tard. I called him a lamo and he kicked me.

He wanted me to pull in kazham as a brd. I said this isnt a merit pt. then he said some smart thing like 'oh~~ youre in jeuno we cant hear you~' so i called him lame. and he removed me :p

yes, because with a brd pulling in kazham, we'd be getting chain 25s and all.
l a m e

[Eauijhkuu]

Re: Is it mean to kick someone because...

Yeah see...

Anything to benefit the party.

I can understand where you're coming from, but then again, If you can pull without getting hurt, then why not?

People used to always ask me at lower levels to wield sword to close SCs. And it kinda pissed me off that I had to wield a D rank weapon just to close a SC. But overall, if it helped the party out, I was cool with it irregardless.

But yeah. Your PT leader...
What a bonehead.

[Omni]

Re: Is it mean to kick someone because...

well you cant pull at that level w/o getting beat on. i could sub nin i suppose but the only whm might have a little trouble healing 4 melee. so anyhow~

i think he wanted me to pull with lullaby? if thats the case, someone is going to have to go out there and wake it up again anyways... XD

[Eauijhkuu]

Re: Is it mean to kick someone because...

Yeah...You can...pull...at that level.

Heck. You can practically pull anything without /nin as long as it isn't running twice your speed.

I do it all the time.

But then again. I kinda have to know how to pull since it's part of my job.

[ikkleste]

Re: Is it mean to kick someone because...

A DRK @ LV 50 that refused to SC.
A RDM @ LV 50 that didn't know how to MB.

So yeah. I kicked them because the BLM and the MNK were tired of picking up slack. And me being a Thief, was pissed at the fact that the DRK didn't SC at all; Didn't help the tank or the mages.

Sadly (especially for the RDM) it might not have had the chance before. I've been leveling slowly for the past 18 months or so. But in the last three months (admittedly only five or six parties) i havn't seen a defined skillchain, that includes dunes parties and 40-50 parties as RDM. If melees aren't skillchaining, how can mages be expected to learn to MB. It makes me sad. I want to Magic burst, but if theres no SC i've got a hard job doing so. If that mage has come through in the last 6 months the amount of practice he's had could well be less than that of someone coming through the dunes 2 years ago.

[Omni]

Re: Is it mean to kick someone because...

it all leads back to burn pt mentality.
just let the ws go w/e you want.

its true, i havent seen a renkei setup in a long time either. renkeis are done usually on accident now. nothing pre-set.

[Feenicks]

Re: Is it mean to kick someone because...

Anyone read the first page of this thread? It's really really old! Kinda good that it's still relevant today.

The only reasons I can think of for kicking someone from a party is if they're being a pain in the ass or doing such a bad job that the party would actually benefit from not having them around. Gear and spells should never be an issue unless in absolutely tragic cases such as NIN not having Utsusemi: Ni or mages not using elemental staves, but even still I would give the party a go and just see how we fare.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Is it mean to kick someone because...

I think it's great to kick someone, even when there's no one else around who wants to xp, and then continuing to fight with just five ... and doing better than we were without the guy we just kicked. Makes my day.

Of course that doesn't really work if he was your main healer or your tank, but if you kick some random DD and let him watch you pummel the mobs much more efficiently without him ... it's really kind of great.

I guess I'm just mean like that.

[Chveya]

Re: Is it mean to kick someone because...

As for poor gear, I wouldn't kick someone unless their gear was substantially poor. Still wearing your Sandorian ring at 50? GTFO.

I have a friend still wearing Windurstian Ring at lvl 50. I keep trying to drop hints, offering to lend my old gear to him, but so far he hasn't shown any interest. He's got other useless/gimp gear too, but since he is a good friend I'm having a hard time being harsh on the issue. ;.;