Difficulty finding balance in Rank 2 Final Mission and parts of the game.

[Jasiwel]

Hello FFXI forums, before you read on, please reserve all statements until all words in the wall of text have been read. Thanks in advance hopefully.

I have come here today to plea a case regarding something bothering me with FFXI. Currently I am a Red Mage Level 34 with 511 HP/268 MP and 115 Atk with 117 Def, going solo mostly (occasionally I join with some friends I meet along the way for training), and I have reached a point where I feel comfortable fighting the Rank 2 Final Mission. I have fought this battle twice, obviously losing twice since I'm here about it. The issue I am having is simply this: the fight is ridiculous in terms of Level 25 balance. I'm 9 levels ahead of Searcher and Black Dragon. Why am I not having a better time dealing with them?

The first time I fought them, I actually had a chance at winning. I killed Searcher relatively with no problems, minus trying to Sleep Dragon for a second time and somehow failing that because Switching Enemies isn't very smooth if you've only played for a few weeks (I apparently must have struck the Dragon when he was Asleep for a second time, but I don't recall doing so). I got Dragon down to 3/4 health. However, the biggest flaw of this fight was the fact that someone at Square Enix thought it'd be great to simply create a status effect called Curse. Now, most of you know that Curse brings your health and MP's maximum down to about 1/4 of what it was prior to the affliction. It cannot be cured aside from rather expensive Holy Water. Black Dragon does about 25+ damage to me per swipe. In that fight, I cured my affliction with one of my Holy Waters, but then came the kicker: I was out of MP to use Cure II. It came down to my dying shortly after, though not before bringing its health close to 8/10. Bio and Blind helped me stay in the fight a pretty decent amount of time. I figured I just needed a few healing items (aside from Holy Water) to help me out.

The second fight was a disaster. Before I could even Sleep the Dragon, they were BOTH attacking me (I was at a fair distance away like the first time) already. I only lost about 50 HP as result though, so I cast Sleep on Dragon and continued to attack Searcher. For some reason, I lost about 3/4 of my HP in that fight, which made no sense given the first fight. In the middle of that fight, Dragon awakes. I disengage so I don't attack Dragon this time. Well, apparently instead of casting on Dragon (because selecting targets that are close together is far more ridiculous than it should be in this game) I accidentally cast it on Searcher (which it failed) and I went down to approximately 200 HP / 170 MP. So I eventually kill Searcher, heal up to almost 400HP but guess what follows? Domination by the Black Dragon that was not remotely there in the past game. He didn't even have to curse me to kill me. I barely brought him to 1/2 HP. Blind hardly helped me through its attacks (I have a decent Evasion regardless). I simply was owned in an absurd manner given how far ahead I am level-wise. Yes I know it's a boss, but given I hear a lot of people solo it at level 25-29 as other jobs that have little sustain, I should not be having the issues I do with it.

Another issue I'm having consistently is that Cure II costs a LOT of MP (24 MP) for a Level 2 spell that doesn't even heal 90-100 HP with a healing skill of 80. This is a miniscule statement in the scheme of things, but given I have to reserve about 3/4 of my MP just to heal, something is a bit off. What this means as a Red Mage is that I really can only smartly use MP to Enfeeble and Heal; unless I do good damage, there's no point in using Black Magic in any way. What's the point in having Black Magic if it's detrimental to use it half of the time? You could say "Use ethers," but seriously, when I'm only dealing about 25 damage on average I shouldn't have to try to tank my way through a fight.

One last thing: who's great idea was it to include the wickedly stupid gameplay concept known as Curse? The game has enough difficulty in it to begin with, so feeling successful and happy from victory is already sufficient. Curse is extraneous. I don't know if an intern designed it, but it's honestly one of the worst design choices I have ever played in a game (I've played 3/4 of the Final Fantasy games in the series, plus many others unrelated) in quite some time.

Now with that done, it's obvious I'm kind of pissed here. I'm not saying I hate this game: I enjoy it a lot and I enjoy exploring Vana'diel enough that this is the only game I want to play right now (compared to the 3-4 I was playing before). Most of the people are incredibly nice and help when possible, but I like to play solo more. Regardless, it's just frustrating as a solo player sometimes. Can anyone help me here? Victory is near, I know it, but aside from leveling up a couple of more levels, what can I do to beat these two as Red Mage without wanting to throw my computer out the window?

[Ketaru]

Re: Difficulty finding balance in Rank 2 Final Mission and parts of the game.

These battles were not originally designed with soloing in mind. They were designed to be fought in groups. That status ailments like Curse exist is because they had it in mind that you would be going into fights like these with a healer. You were supposed to go into this with somebody who has Cursna. Or carry your own Holy Water items.

I know, as a new player, it may not seem so. But Final Fantasy XI is more solo friendly than it has ever been. Still, it will always encourage you to spend at least part of your time trying to achieve things in groups.

[Vyuru]

Re: Difficulty finding balance in Rank 2 Final Mission and parts of the game.

Allrighty, now granted it's been a VERY long time since I last played FFXI, but here goes!

First some questions.

What subjob did you use?

What food are you using?

What spells are you using?

Are your skills reasonably up to date?

And of course gear! What gear do you have?

You mention using Cure II, do you have all of your spells? I see no mention of Cure III, so I don't know if you aren't using it because you get better hp to mp results from Cure II or if you don't have it.

Additional accessories that you might want to consider:
Hi-Potion Tank
Juices


Now granted, I don't know how available Hi-Potion tanks are anymore, but back when I was still playing they were fairly available at a pretty cheap price, about 2-5k. Pop the Hi-Potions out ahead of time obviously. Make sure you have macros made to reduce the amount of time it takes to cast certain spells/abilities. I might also try Rdm/Dnc if you are not already. I only played Rdm in parties, but I solo'd alot as Blu/Dnc, so I can tell you here that you would be amazed at how much hp you can restore with your tp.

Now then, as for spells:

Make sure to buff up. Toss on Stoneskin/Phalanx/ProtectII/ShellII/Blink. Prior to engaging you'll want to toss on Regen, and an En/Spike~ spell of some kind. Pop Food/drink, bring several drinks so that you don't run out of Refresh. Also, I don't know offhand if Sanction buffs come off in BCNMs, I think they do. If not you can save some mp/time by using those. ALWAYS take time to rest your mp to full after buffing up.

Sleep the dragon like you have been doing. It's not uncommon for a mage to also toss on Paralyze/Blind/Gravity on slept enemies to try and help if the mob wakes up before you are ready for it.

If you're doing Rdm/Dnc, keep up Drain Samba and save TP for Curing Waltz. I have found as Blu/Dnc that 99% of the time you do not ever want to waste TP on a WS even though I saw alot of people doing that in stuff like Campaign. Those people died unless they were a job with insane TP output, or fighting a mob that was just that much weaker than they were. Unfortunately for you right now, you are neither, so save that TP.

Blind/Paralyze are immensely helpful, not sure about Slow on the Ahriman. Dia II will deal DoT as well as lowering mob's defense, and will wake up slept mobs.

Do your best to kill the Ahriman quickly without wasting too much time/mp on it, and then it's just a battle of endurance with the dragon. Make sure to keep the dragon enfeebled if you can, and spells like Phalanx up on yourself. Stoneskin/Blink/Paralyze have long casting times as I recall, so it can be difficult to recast them when the mob is awake if you're solo.

Good luck.

[Icemage]

Re: Difficulty finding balance in Rank 2 Final Mission and parts of the game.

This is one of those rare missions/quests where the level cap hoses you if you're solo. It's possible to do solo, but usually requires some luck, some medicine, the right job combinations and some good equipment.

Get at least one other person to come with you (Monk using hundred fists makes very short work of Searcher and can almost take down the dragon before Hundred Fists expires) and you can beat the dragon with ease.


Icemage

[Jasiwel]

Re: Difficulty finding balance in Rank 2 Final Mission and parts of the game.

These battles were not originally designed with soloing in mind. They were designed to be fought in groups. That status ailments like Curse exist is because they had it in mind that you would be going into fights like these with a healer. You were supposed to go into this with somebody who has Cursna. Or carry your own Holy Water items.

I know, as a new player, it may not seem so. But Final Fantasy XI is more solo friendly than it has ever been. Still, it will always encourage you to spend at least part of your time trying to achieve things in groups.

Yeah, I figured as much, but given the current state of the game's population, soloing missions is a bit easier for me, not to mention a LOT more satisfying.

Allrighty, now granted it's been a VERY long time since I last played FFXI, but here goes!

First some questions.

What subjob did you use?

What food are you using?

What spells are you using?

Are your skills reasonably up to date?

And of course gear! What gear do you have?

Hide

You mention using Cure II, do you have all of your spells? I see no mention of Cure III, so I don't know if you aren't using it because you get better hp to mp results from Cure II or if you don't have it.

Additional accessories that you might want to consider:
Hi-Potion Tank
Juices


Now granted, I don't know how available Hi-Potion tanks are anymore, but back when I was still playing they were fairly available at a pretty cheap price, about 2-5k. Pop the Hi-Potions out ahead of time obviously. Make sure you have macros made to reduce the amount of time it takes to cast certain spells/abilities. I might also try Rdm/Dnc if you are not already. I only played Rdm in parties, but I solo'd alot as Blu/Dnc, so I can tell you here that you would be amazed at how much hp you can restore with your tp.

Now then, as for spells:

Make sure to buff up. Toss on Stoneskin/Phalanx/ProtectII/ShellII/Blink. Prior to engaging you'll want to toss on Regen, and an En/Spike~ spell of some kind. Pop Food/drink, bring several drinks so that you don't run out of Refresh. Also, I don't know offhand if Sanction buffs come off in BCNMs, I think they do. If not you can save some mp/time by using those. ALWAYS take time to rest your mp to full after buffing up.

Sleep the dragon like you have been doing. It's not uncommon for a mage to also toss on Paralyze/Blind/Gravity on slept enemies to try and help if the mob wakes up before you are ready for it.

If you're doing Rdm/Dnc, keep up Drain Samba and save TP for Curing Waltz. I have found as Blu/Dnc that 99% of the time you do not ever want to waste TP on a WS even though I saw alot of people doing that in stuff like Campaign. Those people died unless they were a job with insane TP output, or fighting a mob that was just that much weaker than they were. Unfortunately for you right now, you are neither, so save that TP.

Blind/Paralyze are immensely helpful, not sure about Slow on the Ahriman. Dia II will deal DoT as well as lowering mob's defense, and will wake up slept mobs.

Do your best to kill the Ahriman quickly without wasting too much time/mp on it, and then it's just a battle of endurance with the dragon. Make sure to keep the dragon enfeebled if you can, and spells like Phalanx up on yourself. Stoneskin/Blink/Paralyze have long casting times as I recall, so it can be difficult to recast them when the mob is awake if you're solo.

Good luck

.

First, thanks a lot for the tips. I just had to spoiler it for the sake of quote pyramids.

1.) I have a Black Mage for a subjob. It was recommended when I looked through a few guides.

2.) I'm not using any food. Call me cheap, but it's REALLY expensive right now (more expensive than Auctioned Medicines), especially given how the Auction is unusually slow on the Bahamut server as of late.

3.) I'm using the following spells:
-Dia
-Poison
-Blind
-Bio
-Sleep
-Cure II
-Protect
-Shell
-Aquaveil
-Blink
-Fire/Water/Aero (I did the first time on Ahriman)

As far as the others, they have just been way too expensive lately for me to get. I've been using the Auction House to get money for equipment and medicines. Magic simply hasn't been easy to get given I needed better equipment than that of Lvl.10-11.

4.) Most of my skills (except for Enhancing Magic) are hovering around 70-90. For a Lvl. 34 RDM, I don't know if that's up-to-date or not.

5.) I have the following gear:
-Strider Sword
-Channeling Robe
-Parana Shield
-Destrier Beret
-Scaled Cuisses
-Legion Leggings
-Zealot's Mitts
-Raising Earring
-Bastokan Ring
-Chariot Band
-Black Cape
-Wing Pendant

I use Cure II because it's the highest spell I have for Restoring. I do not have Cure III nor do I know where to get it.

This is one of those rare missions/quests where the level cap hoses you if you're solo. It's possible to do solo, but usually requires some luck, some medicine, the right job combinations and some good equipment.

Get at least one other person to come with you (Monk using hundred fists makes very short work of Searcher and can almost take down the dragon before Hundred Fists expires) and you can beat the dragon with ease.


Icemage

Actually, I wasn't penalized for my level apparently. It says so for the status effects, but it's not evident in my stats, unless they buff the Searcher and Black Dragon (which would make more sense I guess). According to the FFXI Wikipedia, the level cap penalty ended last February (or maybe it started this February).

[Etra]

Re: Difficulty finding balance in Rank 2 Final Mission and parts of the game.

They took out the level cap for that fight quite a long time ago, I believe.

[Malacite]

Re: Difficulty finding balance in Rank 2 Final Mission and parts of the game.

Pretty sure they uncapped ALL story fights/areas so... sub NIN and come back at a higher level? 40 should be a breeze since you'll have haste and convert (or 41 if you want refresh that badly).

[Icemage]

Re: Difficulty finding balance in Rank 2 Final Mission and parts of the game.

Oh, it's uncapped now? In that case, just go about your business and level up. At 41+ you should be able to wreck that battle as a Red Mage, since none of the effects should do much of anything to you, and you'll have both Phalanx and Refresh available as well.


Icemage

[Ketaru]

Re: Difficulty finding balance in Rank 2 Final Mission and parts of the game.

-Fire/Water/Aero (I did the first time on Ahriman)

Ahriman mobs, if I remember right, have a very high amount of natural Magic Defense Bonus. You probably won't kill one very efficiently by nuking.

[Feba]

Re: Difficulty finding balance in Rank 2 Final Mission and parts of the game.

you also mention you're using Dia/Bio; don't use those on the same mob, they cancel out. Dia is light and reduces enemy def, Bio is dark and reduces enemy atk.

MP is pretty tight at low levels, but it makes a lot of sense, given that unlike in previous games, a large amount of being an effective mage in XI is centered around how quickly you can recover MP; this is usually done not through ethers, but through Refresh, as well as items that boost hMP. hMP is one of those mechanics that only really matters in a group; you'll notice more and more that FFXI was designed and balanced for group play, and solo play (though much easier now) is always sort of a "well, good on you for figuring that one out" sort of deal.


EDIT: You may or may not find it beneficial to try juices. When I was around your level, as a Black Mage, I had enough cooking skill to produce juice for myself; the ingredients take up far less room in your inventory, so I would regularly be crafting in the middle of battles, making the juice I would then drink to recover MP. Fairly odd scene, but worked very effectively.

[Jasiwel]

Re: Difficulty finding balance in Rank 2 Final Mission and parts of the game.

Yeah, it didn't seem worth using the MP in the end. I also just got Cure III and am going to go to Sandoria to get Stoneskin. I then plan to go to Jeuno for some mission, so I might level up quite a bit (since I know Marshlands has a nice farming capacity with Chariot Band and the Double Exp Weekend). Either way, this game is kind of pushing me to my limits of whether I can enjoy it much longer. I have to keep spending hours leveling up and nearly every mission I take the enemies go aggro, ruining my ability to explore the game half of the time. It's enjoyable, but it's frustrating as hell when you have to traverse through West and East Sarutabaruta or West Ronfaure for the twentieth time, it kind of gets redundant.

[Firewind]

Re: Difficulty finding balance in Rank 2 Final Mission and parts of the game.

Bio takes priority over Dia. If I recall correctly it goes:

Dia > Bio > Dia II > Bio II

Anyway don't worry about not getting this fight done right away, only Blue Mages and possibly Summoners can solo it at the level it is intended to be played it.

If you are having aggro problems than Sneak + Invisible, or riding a Chocobo will get rid of that. Riding a Chocobo is always preferable if it is possible in the zone as being flaggers as mounted basically makes you "immune" to damage and aggro.

Also it shouldn't take hours to level up if you use the Ground Tomes. At Level 34 you could quite easily get into a Crawler's Nest party or go solo in Dekfutt's Tower if you want to wait until Lv37 to go to CN.

[Vyuru]

Re: Difficulty finding balance in Rank 2 Final Mission and parts of the game.

Welp, prepare for walls of text:

First off to help finance your future adventures I would recommend you find yourself a stable source of gil. I went the gardening/crafting route myself. I focused mainly on consumables which I sold on the AH, gardening for a reliable NPC source of gil since the AH can be cutthroat at times, and there were certain crafts were I could go do FoV pages, get crafting items/stuff and synth. Leatherworking was an awesome gil source this way, especially since dark crystals were easy for me to get.

Next, do other BCNMs. This will net you some gil, and get you some of the spells you will need, like Phalanx. Also make sure to pick up Regen, amazing spell that is not to be underestimated.

Umm, what else...

Hit up ffxiclopedia, it's where I got alot of my info when I was playing the game. Always research where you can buy something (and for how much) then compare it to the AH prices. Many people will go buy an item from a NPC and then resale the item on the AH at a hefty markup. So make sure you are not getting ripped off. It's also an easy way to make some gil too, so there's two sides to that coin.

Ahriman have stupid amounts of magic defense, never smack them with a nuke IMO. They always seemed fairly weak to physical damage though. Well, let me rephrase that. They never seemed to have the defensive bonuses that other mobs got. They have some annoying TP moves that help with their defense, and of course they have magic. Also, it should be stated that this mob DOES have Lvl 5 Petrify. Do NOT do this fight at a level that is divided by 5, you will die.

Check out ffxiclopedia for food options. I'm sure that you will know whether you need +att, +def, or +acc food. Easy to get and cheap low level foods that I would recommend looking are:

+att: Dhalmel Steak/Meat Jerky/Roast Mutton
+def: Boiled Crab
mp regen: Pineapple Juice

There is alot to recommend to you in terms of gear. On the one hand there isn't too much to pick from that'll add substantial improvements, on the other, you are badly undergeared especially in terms of accessories IMO. If you are going more of a melee mage route, I would recommend:

Neck: Focus Collar
Gloves: Battle Gloves
Waist: Mohbwa Sash <<< ought to be cheap

Problem with gear is that you get alot more good options in the 36-50 range. I would pick up the lvl 36 +int/mnd rings as they should be cheap and will help your spells. Speaking of which, you will probably need to get used to gear swapping. Certain spells are affected by different stats, someone who played more than I as a Rdm can speak more about that. For instance I think Paralyze is affected by Mind, but getting it to stick and getting it to proc are two different things that I can't really speak of. I think, think mind you, enfeebling skill affects sticking and mind would affect proc rate.

Not sure if you know this or not but you can only have either Bio or Dia on a mob at the same time. Dia reduces defense and Bio reduces attack.

Now granted, Rdm has fast cast, but I think that subbing /nin would be foolish. Yes Utsu: Ichi is handy and quite useful, but the casting time and recast time is so long I just don't think it is the way to go.


If'n you want I can give you long term advice, some key gear, or what I think of as key gear pieces to get for both solo and party play, or short term advice. Short term would still be to get Dancer leveled as a sub and tackle this BCNM again. If you are close to winning as is I think /dnc would help push you the last little bit. I'd also highly recommend getting some help. As others have said this is a group game that can be solo'd to a certain extent.


Also, if you are playing Rdm as a combat mage, you might want to give Blue Mage a whirl. It can get frustrating to learn spells sometimes, but good god if it wasn't the most fun job I have ever played.

[Feba]

Re: Difficulty finding balance in Rank 2 Final Mission and parts of the game.

Anyway don't worry about not getting this fight done right away, only Blue Mages and possibly Summoners can solo it at the level it is intended to be played it.

That's not true, I used to bullseye womprats all the time back in my T-16--

I mean, one of the first videos I saw of someone soloing that fight was a WAR/MNK. I still remember he had arranged for himself to be 24, right next to leveling up, so when he killed the eye it would level him up-- refilling his health in the process. Was also a galka, so plenty of HP to soak up all the damage, and plenty of strength to do good damage.

There's a lot of strategies out there for the fight, just don't get too stuck on one single method.

[Firewind]

Re: Difficulty finding balance in Rank 2 Final Mission and parts of the game.

Quite a few capped fight strategies revolved around levelling to the cap mid-fight for a free full heal. It is a borderline exploit, not using the system as intended, and completely against the spirit of things but it is a definite option to go for.

Yes I am kicking myself for not thinking of that in my original post.