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Airship CoP woes

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  • #16
    Re: Airship CoP woes

    I won the airship fight with
    NIN/WAR
    WAR/NIN
    WAR/NIN
    WHM/something
    BLM/something
    RDM/something

    What made us win wasn't so much the setup but a few improvements I made to our strategy and approach. You might be following some of these already since I updated FFXIClopedia to include them, but just in case, here they are:

    1) Hi-Potions generate a substantial amount of hate and are pretty quick to use - the same amount of hate RDMs or NIN/DRKs get when spamming Blind and Bind to tank, slightly over 1/3 of a Provoke. I told the NIN to spam Hi-Potions whenever he lost hate and Provoke/WS was down, and he told me it worked great. The hate is independent of HP healed, so you can just chug these down indiscriminately even if your HP is full or Omega's nowhere near you. However, that also means your DDs shouldn't be downing these one after the other. Space them out or they'll rip hate off the tank.

    2) OMEGA COUNTERS. He also doesn't turn to face you. A very easy way to make the fight smoother for your tank is to have him move to one of Omega's sides. All the DDs should be on the other side. Just be sure to tell them not to be too close to Omega's rear or they'll trigger rear lasers - it's better to be slightly closer to the front than the back. Note that Omega turns to face the target during a TP move, so you'll have to reclaim your positions periodicaly.

    3) DO NOT USE SUSHI. IT'S USELESS. This was one of the biggest improvements in our strategy of all. None of the BC targets can dodge to save their lives; like fighting a DC mob, your natural Acc is enough to smack these suckers with 95% hit rate. Anyone who uses Sushi in this fight is essentially fighting foodless. (Corollary: don't use gear with +Acc and -Eva/Def for Mammets. You don't need the Acc and they're inaccurate enough that the Eva counts, but can still hit reasonably hard.)

    3) Safety first. Your goal isn't to kill U/O, it's to outlast them. You won't be hitting for 0 damage and you won't be missing, so it's natural that they'll eventually die. The problem is that U/O can easily overwhelm parties with their high damage and TP moves, forcing cure bombs, making hate shaky and draining your MP quickly. Since Sushi is useless, it may seem tempting to tell your DDs to use meat, but I found the fight went a lot more smoothly if they all eat defense food, as asinine as that sounds. It does make a difference in the damage you take. Those with access to Berserk will be better off not using it during the Omega portion of the fight; you don't want to be hurting your Defense when Omega's spamming physical AoEs and running wild, and Omega has less Defense than Ultima anyways. If any DDs get seriously injured, tell them to get the fuck out of the front lines until they're healed up; dying is not an option. If you have a WHM, tell him to Flash as much as possible - the MP savings will be huge and the hate generated will be far less than what a cure bomb would give. 2-handed DDs are preferable because they feed TP slower in general, but this isn't necessary. BLMs should also pitch in with Stun whenever the tank's getting overwhelmed and they're not in direct danger of crossing the hate line.

    BLU is a slight exception to the above rules. BLU has Cocoon which is far better than Defense food, and Defense food + Cocoon is total overkill and a waste, so BLU can eat Meat freely. However, he should be mindful of feeding TP; his goal should be to try to do as much damage in single hits as possible, rather than using things like Bludgeon frequently to do MP-efficient damage at the expense of feeding TP very quickly. Obviously Head Butt spam is a big boon here too.

    We found SCs to be a bad idea as well, not because the damage getting resisted but because when closed by a DD there's a huge risk of the tank losing hate, and if closed by the tank the damage won't be all that impressive. NIN tanks will also be gaining TP slower than DDs due to having to cast Utsusemi constantly, and it's best not to give them something else they need to keep track of. So just solo WS whenever you know it's safe.

    In my opinion Omega has the more devastating TP moves, so if things get dangerous you should favor using extra pumps on Omega rather than trying to hoard them for Ultima.

    tl;dr our win fight basically boiled down to controlling our pace and outlasting them.
    Last edited by Armando; 02-06-2010, 08:04 AM.

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    • #17
      Re: Airship CoP woes

      I'd say you need to get rid of the Nin and get another DD. You've got a pld/war, and a whole bunch of support. You need more damage. NiN just dosen't cut it.

      SMN/whatever
      RDM/BLM
      WHM/BLM
      PLD/WAR
      Heavy DD's, (Blu's o.k. but won't deal dmg like a sam, or ranger, or War)

      Other than that I think you guys should be good

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Airship CoP woes

        3) DO NOT USE SUSHI. IT'S USELESS. This was one of the biggest improvements in our strategy of all. None of the BC targets can dodge to save their lives; like fighting a DC mob, your natural Acc is enough to smack these suckers with 95% hit rate. Anyone who uses Sushi in this fight is essentially fighting foodless. (Corollary: don't use gear with +Acc and -Eva/Def for Mammets. You don't need the Acc and they're inaccurate enough that the Eva counts, but can still hit reasonably hard.)
        Agree with you to a point - that point being SAM/RNG and Sidewinder. Accuracy is going be requisite for landing Sidewinder in their particular case. If you can't land Sidewinder - which is innacurate by nature - you probably should have just come /NIN. If your plan is to TP from a distance and then use a GK WS, then you could arguably go without the sushi.

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        • #19
          Re: Airship CoP woes

          Can't find my post on how my group beat this fight, so just going by memory....

          Me: Drg/Nin
          Tai: Pld/??? (Either /nin or /war)
          Whaods: Dnc/Nin
          Firecloud: Whm
          Canti: Mnk/Nin
          Sassy: Either Nin or Drg and I forget which

          We used Wiki and Erecia's CoP guide for information gathering purposes and to formulate a plan for the fight before hand. Tai was our master planner, however group input was welcome.

          The three stage plan:

          Meds:

          We had as many CCB Polymer's as we could bring, I think 6. Mages brough refresh/echo/ethers/reraise. Melee brought Hi-Potions, +att food, reraise, lots of shihei. The amount of Hi-Potions that people brought varied. I know Whaods at most had 1 or 2 but typically none, Canti normally carried 7 or so, and I carried 20. Pretty much for any battlefield fight I emptied a Hi-Potion tank. Oh, and most of the melee had several yellow liquids on them as well to hold the mammets when they went into an easy mode to deal with. I don't know for sure, but I think Firecloud was packing Vile Elixers and all sorts of other stuff to restore MP with. Frankly I still don't know how he kept us all alive for these fights.

          Mammets:

          Each melee solos a mammet outside of AoE range from each other. Whoever finishes their mammet first goes to help anyone having trouble, if no one needs help, go to the person with the mammet at the lowest health in order to kill and reduce the number of the mammets and people needing healing faster.

          Omega:

          The party moves to the right of where you are standing when the fight with Omega starts. Pld uses Flash to pull Omega to the left of where you start the fight and as far back as possible. This is so that if you wipe, Omega won't aggro you when you get back up. The Pld stands on omega's Right side, while the rest of the melee stand on Omega's Left side. This is to avoid Counter and that nasty Rear Lasers. Pld uses all hate tools at his disposal as well as Hi-Potions for their enmity and to help keep himself alive while the Whm does his best to keep the Pld alive and free of enfeeblements. I think we tried to save our CCBs for the last 50% or so, but I forget now. I think we were more concerned with how the weapons behaved once they got low on health than anything else. The main plan was to try not to take hate from the tank, try not to let things go bad and just keep a constant steady stream,of damage flowing. Shadows were recast as needed, more or less after each AoE since they took about 2 shadows each I think. If I remember correctly, our biggest concern was Omega due to the TP attacks and additional effect of Stun. Ultima I seem to remember being more managable, but still a royal PITA. We may have also used 4 CCBs on Omega and used 2 on Ultima.

          Ultima

          Much the same as Omega. I don't think the melee stood on the same side as the Pld so as to avoid the AoEs, but I don't remember now where we stood. The Pld and Whm need to be communicating and the Whm needs to be on the ball with Paralyna and any other status ailment that may be needed since Ultima has added effect of paralyze on his attacks. Tai had quite a few Hi-Potions and JA taken by a paralyze that just happened to land right before his JA or item was activated.


          In general, I think this went better when we stopped worrying about having two tanks and Sassy went Drg (also, it went better after he remembered to go back for his ninja weapons! ) It took us 3 tries to win this one I think, but that was due to Whaods. For whatever reason that I still to this day cannot fathom, each and every run he died within 20 seconds of fighting Mammets, Omega, and Ultima. So we basically won with 5 people and one weakened person who hid in a corner for 4/5ths of the BCNM fights.

          We rarely, if ever, saw Smoke Discharger from Ultima, so I might be inclined to say that a Whm is not needed. However, two points I'd raise are that I think that no one heals as well as a Whm for one, and for the second point, as soon as you don't have anyone with Stona you will see nothing but Smoke Discharger, so a Whm is good.

          MP endurance is key here, so I would highly recommend that people bring a bunch of Hi-Potions for several reasons. One is to heal themselves, for the most part, during the Mammet stage. The other is that every now and then you'll be caught by an AoE when you have just one shadow up, and you'll take say, 100-200 damage. Being able to top off your health and save your healer's cures is incredibly useful in this fight, and shoud not draw hate. Should being the operative word here. Now you're using the super tank strategy on the Mammets, so you may not need to worry so much about melee healing themselves there, but for the rest of the fights, it can be handy.

          Based on the jobs you've listed, I'd be inclined to do....

          Pld
          Smn
          Sch or Whm
          Blu
          2x Generic DD if Smn is played as healer, or 1x Generic DD + Rdm/Whm/Sch/Dnc if Smn is played as DD

          Why this?

          I'm a die hard Pld tank ONLY person. While I recognize that Ninja tanks are good and all, it's just when the shit hits the fan, and it will, I want a Pld tanking those weapons/Cerby/any other big baddie.

          You only have Smn leveled, so you are going to need to come up with a plan that lets Smn work with a group, I have not done much with Smn, so you'll have to figure out if you are more beneficial as a DD or healing Smn.

          Sch or a Whm healer due to the fact that Whm are the best healers, followed by Sch. Rdm are good in MP endurance, and I wouldn't mind one as a backup healer, but not as main healer unless you had two of them. Even then I'd prefer a whm+rdm or sch+rdm combo.

          Depending on just how much better geared Tomac's Samurai is over his Blue Mage, I'd be inclined to have him come Blu. Partly for stuns, partly for a constant flow of steady cheap damage, partly as 'kitten mentioned, for Spiral Spin, but also because Omega/Ultima are aspirable, and he should be able to MP Drainkiss some MP back. Although be warned, it could be that MP Drainkiss is resisted by these guys, I do not know. I would be more inclined to use CA + Death Scissors rather than Bludgeon. It should help reduce the amount of TP being fed to the weapons, do nice damage, and maybe SC with something. He would have to be careful about the hate though. Sprout Smack is a nice cheap slow and can possibly help if the Whm is too pressed to try to land Slow. You might get Frightful Roar to stick as well, but I do not know. If his Sam is substantially better geared at lvl 60 than his Blu, then I might go with the Sam, but Blu seems more appealing to me.

          If you have a tank, healer, backup healer, and a Blu or Sam, then I wouldn't be terribly concerned with the rest of the party setup. A Dnc is good, when they are played correctly and are alive. I'd probably say almost any melee would be acceptable, although I wouldn't be terribly thrilled with Thf or Nin as a DD. While I can see why people like Brds, I would be more inclined to try to get a good Cor who can buff and DD. However then you run into the problem of making the party into one that gets the most benefit from the Cor's rolls. I can kinda see a couple of different ways you could try to fill out the rest of the party, but I think I would say to fill the last few slots according to what you think the party needs and how your group plays. Group dynamics and playstyles may make some jobs easier to fit in with you than others, and without being in the group it's kinda hard to tell.

          Oh, and before I forget, I second the +att foods and suchlike that others have mentioned, and that sushi as sam/rng would be a good thing to have.

          Good luck!


          You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be misqouted and then used against you.

          I don't have a big ego, it just has a large mouth.

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          • #20
            Re: Airship CoP woes

            Hey, OP here.

            Finally beat the fight last night. It was almost too easy. Here's the setup:

            WHM/BLM (Balthier)
            NIN/WAR (Chrystiana)
            SAM/NIN (Tomac)
            SAM/NIN (Tyier)
            WAR/NIN (Atrelie)
            SMN/WHM (Yygdrasil) <----- ME!!!

            Mammets went smoother than smooth. Chry supertanked them while we borke into teams to kill them. Tom and Atre took one while Ty worked on another one. Tranmogrification (or however its spelled) denoted when they would switch between the 2. I healed Chry while Balth healed the main group. We were done in less than 4 minutes.

            @ Omega we buffed up with Protectra/shellra/shadows Earthen Ward, rested to full and pulled him to the right of the spawn. Atre was in charge of using the CCB Pumps and used them at 60%, 40% and the last at 20%. Nothing truely magnificent to report, Tom and Atre 2 houred right after the 3rd pump was tossed at 20%. Ty got killed around 6% as the pump wore off. It was more of a fluke really. He raised right back up. We finished him off, moved ships and waited for Ty to unweaken. Once he was up we rebuffed and went into Ultima with the same plan. Pumped at 50%, 30% and 10%. Ty 2 houred at 30% and it made good work of him, leaving him at around 15%. At that point I got too much hate from cure bombing and got one shotted. Atre went down right after me. We both raised up and Atre didnt hessitate to get back to work. At this point I have very little MP and decided to 2 hour to finish him off. I popped Ramuh and Astral Flow and walked in with 5 hp. Nuked for 800, popped an elixer and nuked again for 800. Rested and as I was about to nuke a 3rd time he went down from a WS from Tomac. WIN!!!

            Mammets: ~4min
            Omega: ~15min
            Ultima: ~10min

            Total Fight time was 32 minutes on the dot. No MP issues... no full wipes... 6 Pumps used... Ducal Guard's Ring <Found it!>


            Bastok & Windurst Rank 10. ZM, CoP, ToAU, WoTG, ACP, MKD, ASA & SOA Complete.
            99 Kannagi / 99 Armageddon / 119 Nirvana Adventuring Fellow: Level 99
            99 SMN / 99 NIN / 99 COR / 99 WHM / 99 PUP / 99 BLM / 99 THF / 99 SCH / 99 GEO

            Yyg's Blog: Tree of Awesome!

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Airship CoP woes

              WOOT!
              75: Sam, Nin, Blm, Thf, Pld, Cor, Rdm
              RANK 10 Bastok
              CoP: Done
              ZM: Done
              ToA: Done
              Assault rank: Captain
              Campaign Medal: Medals
              Wotg: Complete the quests already and I'll start

              Originally posted by Etra
              This thread brought to you by Malacite's lack of understanding.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Airship CoP woes

                Originally posted by Yygdrasil View Post
                Total Fight time was 32 minutes on the dot. No MP issues... no full wipes... 6 Pumps used... Ducal Guard's Ring <Found it!>
                \('o')/

                {Congratulations!}
                FFxiv ~ (PS3 Beta) 24THM, 16LNC, 16CNJ, 15MRD/GLD/ARC/PUG
                FFxi ~ (Inactive) 99DNC/THF/SAM/BLU

                Any opinions expressed are my own, and potentially unpopular with others. Should this be upsetting, m
                aybe, read it again, insert smiley faces, rainbows, and glitter as needed.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Airship CoP woes

                  oh, and GDI i wish that ring could be used once every 24 hours or so...
                  75: Sam, Nin, Blm, Thf, Pld, Cor, Rdm
                  RANK 10 Bastok
                  CoP: Done
                  ZM: Done
                  ToA: Done
                  Assault rank: Captain
                  Campaign Medal: Medals
                  Wotg: Complete the quests already and I'll start

                  Originally posted by Etra
                  This thread brought to you by Malacite's lack of understanding.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Airship CoP woes

                    I just wish it could be recharged -.-*


                    Bastok & Windurst Rank 10. ZM, CoP, ToAU, WoTG, ACP, MKD, ASA & SOA Complete.
                    99 Kannagi / 99 Armageddon / 119 Nirvana Adventuring Fellow: Level 99
                    99 SMN / 99 NIN / 99 COR / 99 WHM / 99 PUP / 99 BLM / 99 THF / 99 SCH / 99 GEO

                    Yyg's Blog: Tree of Awesome!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Airship CoP woes

                      Congradulations!

                      Originally posted by Yygdrasil View Post
                      I just wish it could be recharged -.-*
                      I thought the same thing after I use it once. Now I will only use it in case of emergencies.

                      I dont want to do the fight again for another one.
                      PSN ID: Kelshan
                      Completed: F.E.A.R., Bioshock, Turok, The Darkness, Viking: Battle of Asgard, Timeshift, Folklore, Time Crisis 4, Dark Sector, Heavenly Sword, Resistance: Fall of Man, Ninja Gaiden Sigma, The Orange Box, DBZ: Burst Limit, Assassin's Creed, Lair, Overlord, Fracture, Condemned 2, Legendary, BattleField Bad Company 2, Infamous, UT3, Far Cry 2, Resistance 2, Borderlands
                      Currently Playing: MW2 (Stuck in broken Phat PS3 ), Call of Juarez
                      sigpic

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                      • #26
                        Re: Airship CoP woes

                        Congrats! And I'm using this topic to prepare for my fight tonite^^
                        ***************************************
                        | 90 SMN | 90 BRD | 90 BLM | 90 THF | 90 WAR |
                        ***************************************

                        5/5 BST +2
                        2/5 WAR +2
                        Farsha(85)

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Airship CoP woes

                          Originally posted by Zoltar View Post
                          Congrats! And I'm using this topic to prepare for my fight tonite^^
                          GOOD LUCK!


                          Bastok & Windurst Rank 10. ZM, CoP, ToAU, WoTG, ACP, MKD, ASA & SOA Complete.
                          99 Kannagi / 99 Armageddon / 119 Nirvana Adventuring Fellow: Level 99
                          99 SMN / 99 NIN / 99 COR / 99 WHM / 99 PUP / 99 BLM / 99 THF / 99 SCH / 99 GEO

                          Yyg's Blog: Tree of Awesome!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Airship CoP woes

                            Well, we went 0/2 last night, here was our setup:

                            PLD
                            DRK
                            BLU
                            WHM
                            SMN
                            SMN

                            Kind of an odd combination, making us a bit weak on the DD side of things.

                            First attempt: Killed the mammets with relative ease. On Omega, we got him down to 60% before he started spamming AoEs that totally destroyed everyone. We were using yellow-liquid but when it was up we just kept getting destroyed. Wiped 2wice, couldn't get him past 30%. Gave up due to time constraints.

                            2nd attempt: We died picking off our first mammet. I still don't understand this, but you know when they do their move that regains HP? Transmorogifidacdoin? lol (sp) well, by accident I gave it two whacks with my staff, big deal, right? No. All of the mammets that were on the PLD all of a sudden lost hate and went to me. Why? Because I gave it HP back? Srsly? lol

                            It was pretty fail on both attempts. We're going to try again tonight with more of a zerg setup I believe....Airship woes, most definitely.
                            ***************************************
                            | 90 SMN | 90 BRD | 90 BLM | 90 THF | 90 WAR |
                            ***************************************

                            5/5 BST +2
                            2/5 WAR +2
                            Farsha(85)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Airship CoP woes

                              w00t, finished Airship fight last night with my LS. They made it look like cake...I'll post our setup for other's reference

                              BRD
                              SAM
                              SAM
                              NIN
                              RDM
                              WHM

                              I'll skip the Mammet part, b/c every strategy is a supertank with pulling off the mammets 1 by 1 which works fine. For Omega, I BRD'd, kept double March on the NIN tank. NIN fought on one side, rest of us fought on other side. SAMs were using Ranged Attack while building TP. After building TP they'd go in for a weapon skill/skill chain and run back to mages for more Ranged Attack. I'd just double Ballad mages, run to NIN and double march, rinse/repeat. Elegy stuck every time on Omega, plus Slow from the WHM which helped. We only used 1 yellow liquid on him at 20%. After liquid, SAMs come in and go to town on him. (This gets a bit dangerous so have RR) Done. For Ultima, the same strategy applied basically. Having both RDM and WHM helped with curing, plus you need to do some Dispeling on Ultima, plus double Erase from his slow moves on the tank. Long but good fight, took us ~28 min and change.
                              ***************************************
                              | 90 SMN | 90 BRD | 90 BLM | 90 THF | 90 WAR |
                              ***************************************

                              5/5 BST +2
                              2/5 WAR +2
                              Farsha(85)

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Airship CoP woes

                                congrats! feels good!

                                This fight was definitely epic, only other fights that really stand out more to me are Black Shuck and Alexander.
                                75: Sam, Nin, Blm, Thf, Pld, Cor, Rdm
                                RANK 10 Bastok
                                CoP: Done
                                ZM: Done
                                ToA: Done
                                Assault rank: Captain
                                Campaign Medal: Medals
                                Wotg: Complete the quests already and I'll start

                                Originally posted by Etra
                                This thread brought to you by Malacite's lack of understanding.

                                Comment

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