Please give advice on CoP 2-5

[godsaiyan]

Hi there

m ls tried a dry run on this lastnight and we got to the BC with no difficulty, even without a map it was easy to deciper using wiki. However we then went in the BC to fight the 3 mammets and right after we buffed up, sods law kicked in and i d/c'd. This affected the healind of the pt as i was support healer. I logged back on asap only to find 2 people already dead and all 3 mammets came after me, lol

Basically I am after some advice regarding a few things. First off what type of pt formation should i be using? Also for a tank would a mnk/dnc be a gud choice? And where can i fight the normal mammets that drop the yellow liquids so we can go prepared and lock thier job change?

I have an idea of have 3x tanks and 3 x healers as some people have told me that in particular a pld/dnc is able to solo 1 of the mammets.

Also any hands on experience would be grateful.

[Phanex]

Re: Please give advice on CoP 2-5

We used the 3 Nin and 3 WHM fight. Each Nin and WHM took one mob and then they tried to keep him on Polearm mode as long as possible. The nin would use both att and NIN enfeeblings to tank them. Sometimes the WHM would grab hate, but with the new NIN update, that sholdn't be a problem whatsoever now.

We died like 2 times, mainely cause one of the whm's were only lvl 37 and he was a taru, so err...yeah it didn't take too many hits for him to go down quick. But after we got the hang of it, it was easy.

As for PLD/DNC I can kinda see it, as long as he keeps the job locked on polearm, but if it gotos mage, and it starts to nukeaga every 5 secs, I doubt any amount of tp will keep him alive for long.

Now when you get to 3-5....we'll talk again.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Please give advice on CoP 2-5

We used the 3 Nin and 3 WHM fight.

Same, it was very easy and manageable there. Doesn't hurt to have the WHM cast Dia, let the NIN cast all the other enfeebles though so he can keep hate. I don't remember having any problems healing on these. Keep all three "groups" separate from each other as much as possible to avoid any AoE damage. When one NIN finishes he can go aid another.

[Armando]

Re: Please give advice on CoP 2-5

A NIN and a healer can pretty much handle a Mammet but be forewarned that Sword mode WILL RAPE YOUR NIN. Sword mode attacks too fast and hits plenty hard to boot. The healer will have to be prepared to Cure bomb when it goes into Sword mode. Likewise it's of critical importance to keep it silenced for when it pull out a staff.

With the advent of /DNC, maybe a NIN/DNC might even be able to solo a Mammet, but they'll take long enough to kill that I wouldn't assume he won't need outside assistance at all. Also tell your NINs not to be morons and at least use Kurayami (Blind) and Blade: Retsu (Paralyze.)

[Neverslip]

Re: Please give advice on CoP 2-5

Had 2 BST (maybe one was a PUP, DNC/NIN(me), 2 DD's(idr), and a RDM (I think) ~ totally a p/u group /shouting in WG.

We were all veterans of many FaiLsauce attempts (super-kite tactics) with other party configurations... we planned on 3 dry runs and were completely surprised when we beat the holy p!ss outta those stupid Mammets on the 3rd dry run. The BSTs each solo'd a mammet while the rest of us brutalized the 3rd wheel. When one BST would finish their mob they /assisted the other in kiting. Might have even been a BST and a PUP but I'm not sure about that. First two runs mighta gone just as easily but we had some detrimental "Derrrrr" moments that made the fight beyond the mistake impossible to continue for a win. We were proly using yellow liquid on the 3rd run cuz we got a few of them to drop off the previous fights and we realized they are easy to get. Think we designated the mage to heal whoever I could not, enfeeble, but most importantly watch for a good form to stick them in and also to CAPS YELL "TRANSMOG" several times to get us melee to stop healing by striking.

And yah.. shy away from sword form. Hits really realy fast and very accurate. Polearm form is best to lock into but we found that if they WS on yah, you might just be eatin' dirt afterward.

... we came expecting D-day and weren't even really presented with any challenge.

Good luck though.

[Icemage]

Re: Please give advice on CoP 2-5

As you might have surmised, this battle is best approached with a divide-and-conquer strategy.

The best approaches I've seen involve pet-tanking two of the Mammets and leaving the other four members to pound the remaining one into oblivion. This is a very successful method, and very consistent. The pets don't have to last all that long - four people going all-out on one Mammet should take it down easily as long as you're wary of their AoE attack Tremorous Tread and keep your distance if you're not in melee. Using 2-hours on the 1st one (as applicable) is a really good idea.

Kill the first Mammet, go beat up on the second while the person fighting that one goes and helps the other person holding the 3rd one.

Strongly recommend bringing jobs that can deal physical and magic damage, as Transmogrify is incredibly annoying - you can lose a lot of precious time waiting for it to go away, especially if you're stuck on the first one.


Icemage

[Ziero]

Re: Please give advice on CoP 2-5

I've beaten this fight countless times and each time I've done it I'ved used the super kite strategy. A single Nin sight aggros all three with a Rdm or Whm healer while the other four pull one off and beat the crap out of it. As long as you have a smart Nin who knows how to keep his distance and a smart healer who can do the same, you'll have no problems. Nowadays I can pull out a win on the dry run if I'm the nin and take a good healer with me.

Just some things you'll want to remember if you try this method. First off, the kill party should stay as far back into the cave as possible. All the way near the entrance. If you get too close to the kited Mammets, they'll break off and charge the party. You'll also want your healer to stay the hell out of AoE range, because if they get hit with anything, they're on the hate list, at which point they'll be mowed down the next time they cure you. It also doesn't hurt to carry a few Hi-pots just in case, 100 HP can save a life.

Also, since I haven't seen it answered, Yellow Liquid *only* drops from Mammets and you only fight them in BC fights. And right now, you only have access to the first Mammet fight so that's the only place you can "farm" them. Just buy a few off the AH, by the time you're done you'll most likely have more then you started with to resell.

[godsaiyan]

Re: Please give advice on CoP 2-5

first of all thank you all for the advice so far. The ls is already under preparation for another attempt on the mammets. Just one thing though, asking again, does anyone think a mnk/dnc would make for a good tank? I'm thinking mainly for their higher HP pool as well as their 2 hr Hundred fists, when a mammet is locked in a certain mode. I know by not going as war i lose provoke but thoinking with the DD damage the mnk should be able to deal as well as dnc sub, it would be more than able to maintain hate.

[Mhurron]

Re: Please give advice on CoP 2-5

I've beaten this fight countless times and each time I've done it I'ved used the super kite strategy. A single Nin sight aggros all three with a Rdm or Whm healer while the other four pull one off and beat the crap out of it.

This is how we won when I did this fight, except we had a kick-ass PLD and a focused WHM kiting the two around while the othe 4 (NIN, DRK, RDM, BLM iirc) dealt with the mamets one at a time.

[Skoal]

Re: Please give advice on CoP 2-5

Just make sure your same doesn't 2hr when the mob uses transmasturbation. I won this fight with two nins, brd, rdm, my drg and mnk. We used a kiting strat as well. It got a little hairy but we found a way to complete it.

[Ziero]

Re: Please give advice on CoP 2-5

A Mnk tank is going to get pummeled hard. Plds and Nins are the best tanks for this fight, and it's generally better to have two tanks in any combination (2 nins or a Pld and a Nin etc) to deal with both sets of mobs. And subbing Dnc really won't help that much as it takes away from your DD abilities.

A basic setup I like to use for this fight is Nin, Pld, Rdm, Whm and two heavy DDs. Nin kites the mobs, Pld tanks for the kill party, healers heal and the DDs go crazy. A good Pld keeps the kill pt's mob off their healer and DDs better then any other class imo.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Please give advice on CoP 2-5

Generally, combining two key approaches makes for a successful run if not doing CoP 2.5 the Astral Flow way:
1. Divide and conquer.
2. Resiliency in setup.

First, there are basically three ways to divide up the problem when not doing the SMN x3/x4 thing:
1. One tank and one healer for each Mammet.
2. Two kiters/holders at start.
3. One kiter to kite two Mammet at the start.

#1 cuts down on the chaos a lot, but basically requires NIN+WHM for each team, making it impossible to field for many groups. There's a problem of difficult to recover if one NIN+WHM wipes at bad spot and a Mammet goes over to another team, which seems like a brittle approach IMO. With NIN/DNC now available, though, that's not as much of a concern as it was before.

#2 is the old stand-by; it's the most flexible of the three, since kiters can be THF, RDM, PLD, NIN, BST, or SMN, and maybe even other jobs. Main tank can be PLD or NIN, too. The only problem is that with two members kiting, the team is left only 4 people to kill the first Mammet, and it must be done fast before the Mammets bring down one or both kiters. The exception is thiswhen using BST x2's jug pets to hold two Mammets--if that setup is available, I would say #2 becomes the best option.

#3 has flexibility somewhere between #1 and #2, but takes the most preparation, and it's quite a bit harder on the kiter to handle two Mammets without getting killed. The reward is the ability to focus 5 people on the first Mammet to kill it fast. What I've found a THF with Powder Boots and loads of HP meds fits this kiter role. BST with a sturdy jug pet may kite two at a time as well, though it'd wouldn't be able to aggro kite (kiting without accruing any enmity, often called "super kite") both Mammets. This is my personal favorite.


Resiliency isn't as clear cut, and is acquired incrementally.

• Multiple RR items for everyone--including mages--and make sure everyone knows where to wipe if things go bad.
• Pack plenty of HP and MP meds, as well as Regen/Refresh drinks.
• Bring Yellow Liquids to lock Mammets into less dangerous forms when opportunity present itself, to prolong MP pool and lessen chances of KO.
• Does the group have viable magic damage as well as physical damage output? From the very first Mammet on?
• Is there at least one backup source of curing? More?
• Do some scenarios planning and make sure people know what to do:
  • What happens if one kiter bites the dust? Is there a backup kiter?
  • Aggro kiting or no? Which mage is suppose to run out to help keep the kiter alive?
  • What happens if the tank goes down?
  • Can people keep themselves alive long to enough to bring down one more Mammet if the main healer is KO'ed?
  
  

Certain jobs and job combination help a lot when doing either kiting setup (#2 or #3) from my experience:

• NIN/RDM: Very strong magic DD (via elemental Ninjutsu wheel) without being limited by MP, and still can output reasonable physical damage when magic absorb is up or when Ninjutsu timers are down, especially with a shuriken setup. Can kite in a pinch (or as one of the main kiter/holder in a two kiter set up), can even toss out a few cures (esp. with a few refresh drinks). I've even used it to temporary tank when the main tank went down.
• THF/NIN: By itself, an OK DD yet not terribly impressive, but when loaded with Hi/X-potions and one or more pair of Powder Boots and geared for evasion, this is probably the best job at kiting two Mammets at once. Adding Bloody Bolts (and R.Acc setup), a THF/NIN can also hold off a Mammet for fairly long time. SATA Viper Bite is also one of the largest single non-2hr spike damage at that level (hint: can SATA that NIN/RDM), so bring an Icarus Wing and bust one out ASAP when the kiting job is done.
• BLM/WHM: Can nuke, can backup cure. (Somewhat inferior magic DD compared to NIN/RDM at this level IMO, but far better at curing due to the larger MP pool.) Don't forget MB'ing off a SATA Viper Bite Distortion, either.
• RNG: Barrage and Eagle Eye Shot can help bring down that first Mammet fast, which really helps the chances for winning. Just make sure Mammet doesn't have physical shield/damage absorb up... (Had a RNG accidentally cured a Mammet to full that way. lol.)
• SMN/WHM: Same as RNG--helps to bring down that first Mammet fast, so helpful even with a strategy not revolved around killing all Mammets at once. Backup cure source, too, of course. Can be a kiter as well, though if the 2hr is available may be more valuable as DD on the first Mammet.
• RDM/NIN: Kiter, co-healer, enfeebling. Especially kiting. Go /WHM if not kiting (for Curaga), though.
• BST: Kiter, DD. Watch out for enmity shift on pet release, though.

Tanking wise, both NIN/WAR and PLD/WAR are good, but NIN/WAR does go down faster when Utsusemi timers are out, and really shouldn't be used unless there's a WHM for Haste. On the upside, it can do a lot more damage than a PLD can, including magic damage (but out-shined by NIN/RDM, of course).

PLD is more sturdy and can be paired with either WHM or SCH (or even RDM) for main healer, but do require more curing over time (and thus less rest time for the main healer)--make sure the PLD as well as all MP users have plenty of Yagudo Drink and Hi-Ether (or better). It's not a bad idea to have a backup tanking option or two, such as SAM/WAR or WAR/NIN. NIN/RDM can backup tank via damage as well, but lacking Provoke to spike enmity.