Promy Tanking Gear....Shade vs. Kampf

[Duncan Idaho]

I am about to start my Promy missions. I currently have War and Pld leveled for the event and was stumped as to which gear would be the best for the situation. I already have a full Kampf set that has seen many hours of use but was wondering about the usefulness of the Shade Armor set, and it's empty killer bonus.

If I go as War/Nin I could see the +1 Shade set being nice but costly. I have leveled Bst and understand the killer traits but do not know what circumstances increase activation of these traits (Charisma? Luck/Random?). I have noticed that when the mob is of a lower level than my Bst killer traits seem to activate more often and when the mob is much higher it may not activate once. If this is so, would Empty killer even have an impact on the main boss?

The reasons to rely on the Kampf set are obvious to me. The extra defense, agility, and vitality bonus. So the only thing to ask here is would the Kampf's defense and bonuses outweigh the eva + and empty killer. I have not met any players or read any forums that really say anything about how well the empty killer trait works. As far as the wiki and other sites such as somepage and mystery tour all i get are the cold straight facts. Anyone that has had or heard of the performance of the Shade armor please help me to decide which is best.

[Icemage]

Re: Promy Tanking Gear....Shade vs. Kampf

Hard to say, really. I can say that I've seen people decked out in full Shade gear and it really does work, and triggers quite often, even without the HQ versions. Kampfer gear is good for general usage, but if I had to pick specifically for Promyvion, I'd go with a full or mostly-full set of Shade.

For you, I wouldn't bother with HQ. Extra evasion on a Paladin or Warrior isn't terribly useful since the Evasion skill of both jobs isn't very good. If you were going in as Ninja or Thief, it would be a different story, but you're not.


Icemage

[Duncan Idaho]

Re: Promy Tanking Gear....Shade vs. Kampf

Most of my FFXI carrer I have been the tank of the pt. I pride myself in having the best gear for the situation. I regularly level my npc in promy with my wife so the Shade set wouldn't collect dust if it does indeed prove itself worthwhile.

[Sabaron]

Re: Promy Tanking Gear....Shade vs. Kampf

I've actually preferred a mixed set to full Shade. Shade Gloves and Tiara and keep the +VIT portion of the Kampf set. Each piece of Shade gives you +1 on the killer effect, but you take bigger hits when you do get hit. If you can shell out for the +1 though, you get +5 Eva for wearing the whole set which is a very good bonus at level 30.

[Duncan Idaho]

Re: Promy Tanking Gear....Shade vs. Kampf

I think a mixed set would be a good choice for me as an elvaan. Even with capped evasion I have never seemed to evade very often, even with a full Beetle +1 set. As a tank +Vit and +Def has always been my friend. But would missing out on 1 or 2 killer effects make a difference? Perhaps my quest for the best armor setup shouldn't be so critical.

[Icemage]

Re: Promy Tanking Gear....Shade vs. Kampf

I think a mixed set would be a good choice for me as an elvaan. Even with capped evasion I have never seemed to evade very often, even with a full Beetle +1 set. As a tank +Vit and +Def has always been my friend. But would missing out on 1 or 2 killer effects make a difference? Perhaps my quest for the best armor setup shouldn't be so critical.

Optimally, you'd go in as WAR/NIN. Utsusemi shadows + Empty Killer is VERY effective in Promyvion, as Utsusemi stops so very many annoying attacks, which is why I recommend Shade over Kampfer gear.

If you're just straight blood tanking, then maybe just one piece of Shade gear with everything else +VIT/DEF.


Icemage

[Duncan Idaho]

Re: Promy Tanking Gear....Shade vs. Kampf

Even though i enjoy Pld more I would be inclined to agree with you Icemage about Utsusemi and it's usefulness in this area. I think my Christmas gift to myself will be this full set of armor. Now I am just to eager to use it and will have to motivate my wife to run our npc's through a promy just to break it in.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Promy Tanking Gear....Shade vs. Kampf

I've been to Promyvion-Mea, Holla, and Dem many times--and, I've had Shade gear pretty much from the very start. My conclusion: they are not worth bothering with.

* * *

Tried tanking on NIN/WAR with 4/5 Shade (Empress Hairpin being the exception); the intimidate proc rate was too low to sustain Utsusemi: Ichi tanking. I even brought CHR rings and used Tuna sushi in the futile attempt to boost the killer trait. Ended up going back to evasion + AGI gear instead. (Yes, I actually brought all that junk and made macros to switch between Shade and attack and evasion gears just for one run).

Tried something like 3/5 Shade on WAR/NIN (macro'ed in for tanking, switched out for DD'ing). That worked out OK on the first floor while farming with the LS, but not so impressive the higher up we went. The intimidation, again, didn't proc all that often. (Never used Tuna Sushi or CHR gear on WAR, though.)

Think I used one piece on PLD once or twice. Again, wasn't impressed.

Over the many Provmyion runs, I slowly brought fewer and fewer pieces of Shade gear. The more I used them, the less I'm impressed with them. Eventually, I just stopped bothering with them--unless some LS member desperately need Lv.30 gears, they stay with the storage NPC.

* * *

PLD can tank every one of the Promyvion fights. My current and past LS have used it in Mea, Dem, Holla, and Vahzl at least once in each place. (I can't remember which ones I tanked at personally on PLD, but between myself and other members, we've definitely used PLD everywhere at one point or another.)

Two (or three) WAR/NINs working well together would require less curing than PLD, of course, and do more damage than one PLD and one WAR. Unfortunately, I've never been able to convince other WAR/NINs to work with me the way I like it--trade Provoke every 15 seconds (or every 10 seconds if three WAR/NINs), instead of waiting for me to lose all copy images.

Why wait until I'm getting hit and bleeding enmity and HP? *sigh*

Ultimately, the best reason to use WAR/NIN over PLD is that it makes the fights shorter, not because it's a better tank. >_> Having done at least 30 of these, I just want any Promyvion run I'm in to end as fast as possible when I go help someone out now.

Heck, I'd bring my SMN instead if I actually have SMN30 with avatars. <_<; Nothing make the boss fights as short and painless as one or two Summoners.

* * *

Go slow on the floors; stick together, force everyone to follow one and only one person--don't run ahead, and don't aggro anything unnecessary. Save your energy and the consumables for the boss.

It'd stupid to wipe on the the way to spires, especially with the updates done to thin out the crowd on the top floor. A few seconds of patience here and there will save you longs minutes of recovering from K.O.'s.

Oh, and don't bother climbing the floors if people don't bring the animas; it's just not worth the pain to go all the way up with an unprepared group. If they want victories in the Promyvions, they'd find a way to farm or buy those animas.

[Heartily]

Re: Promy Tanking Gear....Shade vs. Kampf

I tank the prommies as an Elvan Paladin, have done them many times.
Started with a full set of shade HQ, but really took a beating. Now I go with
Kam set with the exception of head where I still use Shade tiara+1.
I get as many intimidates with that piece of shade that I got with the full set.

[Ziero]

Re: Promy Tanking Gear....Shade vs. Kampf

I've done countless promys (and I mean countless, I've been doing these for my LS ever since it came out and I think the only people who aren't past them are people who never show/pre 30), so I can honestly say full Shade wouldn't be that great. Even the HQ stuff gives minimal bonuses, as 5 Eva on a War or Pld won't do much. Even with an Emp pin, a solid +10 Eva, I still have trouble evading anything DC+. At most, get two pieces as that will work just as good, and leave you with plenty of room for Kampf.

Now as far as general experiences go, I always prefer to have a Pld main tank in these things. It lets the DDs focus on DDing and the healers focus on one tank. The first few floors won't really matter about tanks, but the fourth floor and the boss fight, I always felt it best to have everyone do a single job at peak efficiancy.

Having said that, at *no* time throughout the climb should a prepared party *ever* have trouble killing the Weepers and Wanderers. You should be able to tear through them all with no effort. Which means, if you have a choice between risking aggro against a Seether/Promy specific mob or a single Weeper/Wanderer, you go to the Weeper/Wanderer. In fact often times it's best to specifically run through them to clear the path, bringing them past any danger points to be killed(a good example of this is the 4th floor on Holla).

Also, yes. Everyone will need Anima. At least Hysto and Psyco. No excuses for not getting them now. At all. You probably won't use them all, but you can always sell what you don't use. And make sure you have a clear order in which to use them, people understand the order and how long to wait between using them. I've seen many times people would throw them all out in a row with no wait effectively wasting the anima.

[Mhurron]

Re: Promy Tanking Gear....Shade vs. Kampf

They make a Taru look fat.

That said, I have kept the full set since 2005. I got it first mainly for farming for Anima.

[Duncan Idaho]

Re: Promy Tanking Gear....Shade vs. Kampf

Hmmm.... Perhaps I will buy one or two pieces and see how well they work. I usually bring War/Nin while getting a tactics pearl once a week wearing full kampfer gear. My wife brings her Drk/War and provokes when I can't get a Utsusemi off. Between the two of us and our NPCs we usually take on the second floor without too much trouble. Doing this weekly has given us plenty of memories and opportunity for anima, so that is a non issue for me. Finding a good group that is well prepared for a promy will really be what i spend my time doing. I have seen the results of answering a shout for a promy and having an unprepared group that was just put together quickly, My wife still hates a promy run due to that, and me loling behind her the whole time....thought I would never get dinner cooked for me again after that.

[Skoal]

Re: Promy Tanking Gear....Shade vs. Kampf

OMG DUNCAN! Sorry I cloned you so many times.

-Leto II

[Ziero]

Re: Promy Tanking Gear....Shade vs. Kampf

My wife still hates a promy run due to that, and me loling behind her the whole time....thought I would never get dinner cooked for me again after that.

XD !


Well, sadly, the key to easy Promy wins is having people with half a brain. Now I say at least half because as long as the leader knows what he's doing then everyone else only needs enough intelligence to follow orders and advice.

I personally do frequent promy runs for anyone in my LS, and so far, I think there's only one person above 30 left in it that doesn't have them done...and he's rarely on. Infact we're planning to do another set starting either this thursday or next thursday, depending on how fast two new players can reach 30.

So, long story short, the key to CoP is finding good friends

[Patchinko]

Re: Promy Tanking Gear....Shade vs. Kampf

My most recent Promy experience in Promyvion - Holla involved a SMN who for some reason charged into the boss room and got himself killed while we were still outside discussing the fight. Sufficed to say, we were unsuccessful.

So as opposed to switching from using my Eisen gear to Shade gear, next time I'm just not bringing along the idiot SMN. Problem solved!