Major issues VISTA + Nvidia 8000 series GPU

[Lhun]

Alright SE: There's a MAJOR MAJOR Problem with the 8000 series cards from nvidia and FFXI on vista.

Windows vista uses DirectX 10, and directx 8 is emulated.

FFXI was built on dx8, and as such, works best when it's code can be properly executed.

SE has decided to include support for vista by releasing a pol client... WELL YOU NEED TO LOOK AT THIS ISSUE. At least SE needs to bring this issue to Nvidia, perhaps to the direct X team over at microsoft

FFXI's performance on vista is absolutely horrible when using a native dx10 card.

For all you doubters, here's my setup.

Intel Core2Duo E6420
2gb DDR2 in dual channel
EVGA Nvidia Geforce8600GT
250GB WD16 w/ advanced drive performance on (huge frame bursts)
Platform is windows vista home premium.

with this computer in windows xp, the game never ever ever ever drops below 29fps (the cap) at 1280x1024 w/ no texture compression on, bump mapping on, in Aht Urgan, with 20 sounds on, while using corsair buffs + songs + avatar buffs, during besieged. That's right, I get 29fps everywhere, regardless of what's going on, even the most brutally laggy things I could possibly do, the game never ever drops below 29fps.

Flash forward to vista. Why am I using vista?
Well, there's this little problem with modern games that use dx9 textures on a 8400 or better card on xp, that nvidia and microsoft haven't fixed yet, probably on purpose to get people to upgrade to vista:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoQUMWqEcao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoQUMWqEcao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoQUMWqEcao
YAY! YELLOW EVERYWHERE!

A LOT of my games do this, unless I'm running vista, which DOES have directX 10, but no native support for dx8 stuff, it's all emulated.

I realize my setup is ridiculously new, but here's what happens.

In vista, when I walk outta my mog house in windurst walls, the game starts to drop in fps. By the time I get to the fountain, I'm at about 5fps. In Dynamis.. the game is unplayable by any stretch, ON ANY RESOLUTION. I could take videos to demonstrate the difference, but I really don't have time tonight.
So to recap: Insanely fast brand new hardware

WindowsXP: Eat your heart out ffxi... but I can't play ANY OTHER MODERN 3d application, and I like things to WORK.

Vista: Everything but FFXI works. OS runs great. All other games run great. I can play the lost planet demo in DX10 on my DX10 card. I'm in smooothness nirvana unless I'm playing ffxi, then I Wanna cry.

I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place, and I think I'm gonna be forced to dual boot, which, with vista, is a pain in the ass. SE NEEDS TO FIX THEIR PROBLEM, or at least pass the buck to MS or Nvidia. There's a MAJOR MAJOR issue here that is not being addressed, and us poor gamers with new hardware are being ignored.

Please, please SE... Fix my beloved game.

[Lhun]

Re: Major issues VISTA + Nvidia 8000 series GPU

Back in March at the Premiere Site Summit, we were told that there would be a window mode released. When will this be released?

The reason this has been taking so long is that FFXI uses DirectX 8. To allow the windowed mode, we have to rewrite the program to be DirectX 9 based, which is what we're doing right now. And we hope to have all of that work finished by the time Wings of the Goddess is released. It will probably come out at the same time the expansion is released.



OH THANK GOD. I just read this.

[Feba]

Re: Major issues VISTA + Nvidia 8000 series GPU

actually, FFXI in DX9 should be schweet. Hopefully they revamp the graphics, and not just add a few extra sliders.

As to your problem, like you said, SE will pass the blame to nVidia because it is almost surely an nVidia driver problem, and nVidia will pass it back to SE because it's a problem with the way they program graphics. Anyone who's ever owned an nVidia and watched firaga or ballad could tell you this.

Probably your only option is to try to install DX9c and use that instead of emulation.

[Lhun]

Re: Major issues VISTA + Nvidia 8000 series GPU

actually, FFXI in DX9 should be schweet. Hopefully they revamp the graphics, and not just add a few extra sliders.

As to your problem, like you said, SE will pass the blame to nVidia because it is almost surely an nVidia driver problem, and nVidia will pass it back to SE because it's a problem with the way they program graphics. Anyone who's ever owned an nVidia and watched firaga or ballad could tell you this.

Probably your only option is to try to install DX9c and use that instead of emulation.

Unfortunately dx9c won't install in vista. Tried it a few times, no dice. Since the OS depends on directx10 to run it's interface, there's no way to install dx9.

I did however perhaps find a solution to the dx10 games issue in xp for now. A group calling falling leaf has released a beta version of dx10 compatibility libraries.

http://www.fallingleafsystems.com/compatibility/

Yes, this will allow you to play Halo2 PC on your xp machine.

Hopefully this will fix my yellow problem in xp too.

[Mhurron]

Re: Major issues VISTA + Nvidia 8000 series GPU

You don't need DX9 on Vista, it already has the latest and DirectX is backwards compatible.

[Edelweiss]

Re: Major issues VISTA + Nvidia 8000 series GPU

If you upgrade from XP to Vista shouldnt Direct X be the same? Mine is, I know its a bit laggy because Vista takes up like the whole damn memory, thats probly the main problem not Direct X. I think I have Version 8 or 9 I am not sure though, I just turned off the weather effects and everything seems fine, also before I installed Vista I tried play FFXI on xp and for some reason I couldnt add people to friends list or take screen shots, but with it on Vista for some odd reason I can do all that stuff now....

Oh, and I do remember scheeming through my computer, and I found out I have Direct X 8-10 I have 3 different versions, and they all work together to help stuff that can or need to use certain ones like FFXI for instance.

[Mhurron]

Re: Major issues VISTA + Nvidia 8000 series GPU

If you upgrade from XP to Vista shouldnt Direct X be the same? Mine is.

No it's not. Whether you upgraded or not, Vistas initial DirectX version will be 10. DirectX packages are made to be backwards compatible so there will be libraries from other versions but the controlling libraries on Vista are DirectX 10.

[Ameroth]

Re: Major issues VISTA + Nvidia 8000 series GPU

Some day the evil M-pire will explode and we will all be forced to use *nix systems... Or anything else that doesn't have Windows in it.

As to your issue, I have no advice at all. Im running ffxi in XP. Sorry.

[Feba]

Re: Major issues VISTA + Nvidia 8000 series GPU

Some day the evil M-pire will explode

and a confused conservative media will blame it on ecoterrorists who were acting in the name of penguins.

[Ameroth]

Re: Major issues VISTA + Nvidia 8000 series GPU

and a confused conservative media will blame it on ecoterrorists who were acting in the name of penguins.

lawl.

[Lhun]

Re: Major issues VISTA + Nvidia 8000 series GPU

You don't need DX9 on Vista, it already has the latest and DirectX is backwards compatible.

Actually, no. The reason I was trying to install DX9, is because the reason ffxi is so slow on dx10 is because 9 and 8 are now EMULATED, rather then directly called. More or less I wanted the dlls and sdks installed to see if it would make a difference, not change the dx version DOWN. You can't downgrade directX, it's hard-integrated into windows. Real shame they don't speed up the dx8-to-9 conversion process on wings of the goddess.

[Lhun]

Re: Major issues VISTA + Nvidia 8000 series GPU

Oh and...

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=21265
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=21265
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=21265
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=21265

FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS.

Do read the last page, too. I'm one of hundreds of people experiencing this.

[Mhurron]

Re: Major issues VISTA + Nvidia 8000 series GPU

Actually, no. The reason I was trying to install DX9, is because the reason ffxi is so slow on dx10 is because 9 and 8 are now EMULATED

What is one of the biggest touted features of Vista?

Aero

Do you really think Aero depends on a poorly emulated environment?

And yes, FFXI and nVidia have had driver incompatibilities from at least GeForce 6 series cards. It's been known for some time. You didn't discover anything new.

[JediKitsune]

Re: Major issues VISTA + Nvidia 8000 series GPU

What is one of the biggest touted features of Vista?

Aero

Do you really think Aero depends on a poorly emulated environment?

And yes, FFXI and nVidia have had driver incompatibilities from at least GeForce 6 series cards. It's been known for some time. You didn't discover anything new.

Actually, I heard Aero runs using a version of DirectX called DirectX9L (L being short for Longhorn). The problem of course is that FFXI clearly doesn't still. Other than that, I think it doesn't matter whether you're running a DX9/10 card. The performance anyway.

[neighbortaru]

Re: Major issues VISTA + Nvidia 8000 series GPU

why are people running vista for games? the drivers and hardware are not close to mature yet. if you value your performance, stick to XP