Window mode. Shouldn't we get the option?

[Yashin]

Re: Window mode. Shouldn't we get the option?

Unfortunatly the PS2 only supports 640x480 or 640x448 resolutions depending if you're in PAL or NTSC.

PS2 supports higher, just the TVs FFXI was made for doesnt...Non-HDTVs are 640x480, so even if it did support higher, unless you had a HDTV youll still only get 640x480...same goes for xbox360...It will look the same as PS2 with out an HDTV...where lesser qualty computers can reg edit and make FFXI render at a much higher ressolution (im using 1600x1600 can go higher but this is fine for me) where xbox 360 will render with an hdtv at 12xx x some other number, forget HDTVs ressulotion...

[InuTrunks]

Re: Window mode. Shouldn't we get the option?

HDTV resolution goes up to 1280ish

[Yashin]

Re: Window mode. Shouldn't we get the option?

Ah yes thanks thought it was something like that, and due to a new program there is away to increase the draw distance on PC...the only thing is it requires windower and a pretty good graphic card...Id use it but I dont use the windower...

[Lunaryn]

Re: Window mode. Shouldn't we get the option?

Yes, it does seem in the current situation that they more or less expect you to dedicate a computer to playing their game.

I actually IRC from my router console, and can run lynx for web browsing, but most people don't have that option.

If nothing else, windowing ought to be an option just for being able to web-browse to http://www.csse.monash.edu/~jwb/wwwjdic.html
Autotranslater's too limited.

[mrCide]

Re: Window mode. Shouldn't we get the option?

heh, i think SE thinks we like waiting 15 or 20 minutes for an airship ride. i am 100% against them not letting people alt tab out of final fantasy. 'it makes it easier for htem to cheat' is the weakest excuse as someone said there will always be a windower out for ffxi, because people will not play without it (such as me). and its a whole lot easier to find and use than to find and use bots/etc. its not a ps2 and its lame to be treated like one, visually too (thanks drawdistance). weak excuses and i cant fathom why they dont get over themselves.

[Pounce]

Re: Window mode. Shouldn't we get the option?

FFXI is the only modern (or even semi-modern) game that I know of that doesn't allow alt-tabbing.

Considering FFXI has (or had) just as many (if not more) cheats and hacks as any other game, the "makes it easier to cheat" excuse is really a poor one.

[Shinjuma]

Re: Window mode. Shouldn't we get the option?

I really think it something for SE to consider. It wouldn’t be too hard for them to create patch that makes it work and so that PS2 can still run fine. I know of many people who use a 3rd party windower. When I wait for a party in an area with not many people, I would like to read up on other things on the web, listen to some of my own music. And there is no way to stop hackers. You can only update and change the code and wait for them to figure out how to do it again. I'm not sure why they haven't implemented a window mode, but they probably have some reason for it. It would be nice if they could at least mention why or decide to go with one. FFXI is a largely played game around the world and it was one of the few games you cannot alt+tab out of it. Some people have spy ware issues, (if you have spybot your fine) and they have a pop-up every once in awhile and it logs them out. My Scan Disk decided to run the other day and I got logged out while I was in a party. A few of my comrades were killed since I was the WHM. Bah. Well I think it would be nice.

Well if I ever hear back from SE about my comment/suggestion (probably not) I'll be sure to post it here. And if anyone has any other reasons why SE might not have implemented a window mode thus far, do tell.

[Enialas]

Re: Window mode. Shouldn't we get the option?

if you want FFXI to be played in the spirits the game designers original intent (which includes PS2 limitations, because anything else would be unfair to PS2 users and came later) you want:

1) full screen w/ PS2 resolution. peroid.
2) RDMs back they way they were. no convert and all RDM spells taken back out.
3) no nin blink tanking.
4) the game before Rise of the Zilart

i dont have windower, but think of it like this

ps2 player: it's unfair pc users can be in window mode, can use internet while not playing FFXI
pc user: it's not fair I paid $1000 more than a PS2 user and reduced to Console limitations while playing this game

ps2/pc complaint: if you want to be on the net for reasons other than FFXI (on top of a multitude of other options)>> PC, if you don't want or cant afford pc >> PS2.

my 2 gil

[Yoko]

Re: Window mode. Shouldn't we get the option?

Its really stupid IMO to not have windowed mode, since the only reason id see for it would be to reduce the number of third party programs, but anyways now even more are created to counter this, so any of their point is...well, pointless.

[Kafeen]

Re: Window mode. Shouldn't we get the option?

if you want FFXI to be played in the spirits the game designers original intent (which includes PS2 limitations, because anything else would be unfair to PS2 users and came later) you want:

1) full screen w/ PS2 resolution. peroid.
2) RDMs back they way they were. no convert and all RDM spells taken back out.
3) no nin blink tanking.
4) the game before Rise of the Zilart

That's not really accurate, especially points 1 & 4. Just because features weren't there from the start it doesn't mean they weren't planned. SE have said themseleves and you can see from the openning FMV that Tanvania was always planned to be added at a later date. Unless you've seen the original desing documentation you don't know what what was and wasn't planned.

[Macht]

Re: Window mode. Shouldn't we get the option?

No, the reason for the PC version not having a Windowing function is because you then start versioning out the programming itself into PC specific and PS2 specific. The programs core basics are designed to work with both (just like Java works through virtual machine). If they go and alter the programming so that it'll jump out to a Windowed version then they end up being forced to make two program versions for the code, one specific for PC and one specific for PS2.

This was stated some million times when SE first released the game that it's basics are built to work with both PS2 and PC while still being just 1 code that they have to mess with that is all in sink so chances of errors and bugs are greatly reduced (As you can see with 3rd party programs that window out FFXI, there are errors and glitches that occur with it).

As for the draw distance the PC can get the same quality as the Xbox 360 is boasting provided that you have a graphics card capable of supporting the extra load on it and that you know were to configure the draw distance on FFXI (There is a place to do it). So in reality the Xbox 360 version will be no different then what the PS2 version and PC version already has. They were only able to boast that the game console will have the further drawdistance because the extra processing power the Xbox 360 has over the PS2. Outside of that the games programming has not been changed at all just it's settings, which you can do just as easily on the PC. PC's default configuration is to match the PS2's drawdistance and such, though they also did reduce much of the TnL and effects on the PC which can be adjusted back as well.

That's about it in a nutshell, it isn't that they are not considering it's that they are considering the fact that it will start to separate the programming between game console and PC then the difference between the two won't just be a result of CISC processing with it's OOO vs. a somewhat RISC processing without the OOO.

Double Post Edited:
In-case you don't know, OOO means "Out-Of-Order". CISC prosessors generally with process Threads in a quasi-random order. If you are using a CISC processor with OOO and make something to count from 1 to 100 then doing something like:

For iX = 1 to 100
Debug.Print iX
Next iX

You'll get a sequential order counting from 1 to 100, now if you end up threading the Debug.Print line you will end up with something like:

2
1
3
4
5
7
6
8
10
9
11
12
13
16
15
14
17
18
....

That will be a result of the OOO, this is why when playing games with CISC vs. RISC many CISC processor are able to allow a person to "phase" through walls or object they should not of in a RISC processor this isn't possible unless there is a 3rd party program (hack) interferring to allow this. That is basically why the PS2 version can not get to certain areas that the PC version can (for example scaling the airship sides to get to the outside of the airship while it's in flight).

The PS2 I state is a semi-RISC because most of it's RISC like function are in the Emotion Chip, of which it's SDK was poorly built so many PS2 games usually bypass it this is why you get a game like SOCOM and SOCOM II with people able to "phase" through walls when they get to the right spots (Also a result of bad coding to boot).


Oh, I also moved the thread to "Game Setup / Tweeking / Optimizing Q&A"

[Enialas]

Re: Window mode. Shouldn't we get the option?

That's not really accurate, especially points 1 & 4. Just because features weren't there from the start it doesn't mean they weren't planned. SE have said themseleves and you can see from the openning FMV that Tanvania was always planned to be added at a later date. Unless you've seen the original desing documentation you don't know what what was and wasn't planned.

well it might not have been entierly accurate, but i'll make a point about Tanvania.

Have you ever played a game to find out, that even though it's in the intro, it isn't in for the rest of the game? maybe they showed it because they thought it would "look cool" and while a Sandorian is doing thier 6+ rank missions to find out the story, while still not able to go there.
who knows, maybe they planned for it to be available when it came live then pushed to first, then second expansion before it finally got in, or maybe after enough player complaints that they can't got to the place in "intro" (not knowing what's called) SE finally decided to put it in.

of course back to the RoZ... if AF wasn't part of the designers original intent, it's a good thing they came around, heh.

[Shinjuma]

Re: Window mode. Shouldn't we get the option?

Thanks for clearing that up Macht! People were starting to give some strange reasons... I hope square enix will come to some sort of solution for people who want a window mode. (maybe overseeing/sponsoring 1 third party component or add on for pc, for a window mode). That wouldn't affect the PS2 users would it?

And as far as being unfair for PS2 users... it's not unfair in my opinion. A computer that can run FFXI decently is about 600$. A PS2 cost 150$ now, then you have to buy the package to play FFXI online. That’s at least 1/2 the price of the PC. (Go get a job!)You buy a PS2 to play a game. You buy a computer for multiple things, E-mail, music, videos, games, MS Word, browsing the internet.
FFXI is one of the few games that exits when minimized. So it's only natural to want the same option you get with any other online game.

[Khaeos]

Re: Window mode. Shouldn't we get the option?

And as far as being unfair for PS2 users... it's not unfair in my opinion. A computer that can run FFXI decently is about 600$. A PS2 cost 150$ now, then you have to buy the package to play FFXI online. That’s at least 1/2 the price of the PC. (Go get a job!)You buy a PS2 to play a game. You buy a computer for multiple things, E-mail, music, videos, games, MS Word, browsing the internet.
FFXI is one of the few games that exits when minimized. So it's only natural to want the same option you get with any other online game.

Exactly. I have a 1.82Ghz, 512RAM, 82GB computer with a GeForce4 MX440 Video card. It runs FFXI perfectly...though the speed of the game is based on my connection (I have cable). The computer above cost me $350, because I custom built it myself. You can get decent computers these days from 400-600, with offers such as Dell and Gateway.

As for the windower, personally....I would love for S-E to implement it. The flaw with what someone said above about it, which was look up the stuff before you go on, is that you DON'T know what you'll do when you go on. I'm in a sky/HNM ls, which means we do around 5-10 activities a day in a variety of areas. Planning only goes so far, especially with so much going on like Divine Might, Promathia Missions and HNMing. I could log in the game and say "Hey, I need to do this" and get the information beforehand. But then another activity pops up, and I need info for that too. What do I do? This is where windower can be helpful.

As for the PS2/PC argument, no...PS2 shouldn't get windowed mode. Why? Because PS2 is a GAME system. Its not a multi-task unit like a PC is. Any internet functionality for the PS2 is based primarily on gaming and nothing else. Why would you need a windowed mode on PS2, when its a game-only system? The power of the PS2 and PC are fastly different...as the PS2 may have trouble running more the one program whereas the PC can run multiple gaming prograsm at once (I once had Homeworld 2, Command and Conquer Generals and Starcraft running at the same time to test something). PC users would need it for info, whether about missions or NMs or something else.

Whether windower or not, someone will find a way to make a hack or a cheat. There is nothing you can do about it unless you update constantly. So in that respect, I highly doubt adding windower would affect anything hack wise or no.