Why do you want to see what i do on my home computer?

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Why do you want to see what i do on my home computer?

=/ I'm really interested in the information, and would love to have links to solid report of the actual numbers. Anyone?

[Malevolent]

Re: Why do you want to see what i do on my home computer?

Well I called POL customer service on friday to clarifiy the scanning. They refference the same section to the user guide as i did in these posts so i still asked why they were continuing to scan due to the it not scanning just POL files and services.I spoke with a supervisor "Joshua" and he said that they've been doing this scan for 3 weeks now and people are just now noticing. I told him we shouldn't have to notice the scan we should have been made aware of the scan in the begining. After about 10 mins of going back and forth on why our computers and files are and are not considered POL Services i adviced the supervisor that i will continue to block any attempts by POL or SE to scan the contents of my computer besides POL services and files. Also I asked the sup what happens to the info that is collected from the scans. He told me that it is submitted to a 3rd party admin to verfiy and identify 3rd party programs in link with FFXI. The Sup also added to continue blocking POL services to do their jobs will result in a termination of my content ID and will not be allowed to rejoin or play FFXI and i added any more attempts to scan my personal PC will result in legal action on my behalf.

So since i called from my job i put him on hold to let him know something. Here at my call center job all incoming and out going calls are monitored for training purposes, yes even if they're out going calls. So i reiterated any more attempets to pursue info besides POL Services and Files within POL will reslut in this call being submitted to the Better Buisness Bureau and also this call submitted to my lawyer to seek legal action. He hung up before i could finish my sentence. Normally wouldn't a innocent person stay on the line to hear what they customer said and give his rebuttle?

So tell me they aren't doing this scan illegally and unimformed to its members. Please show me where it tells me SE may scan its members computers/HD for unrelated to FFXI information.

The only reason i'm aggriveted about this is becasue i was hacked before when i was just an ameture with computers. It cost me close to $3k before the bank found out it was fraud and stollen. i still can't get a credit card or home loans due to this being a huge red mark on my credit. It ruined my life and i'm not about to let it happen again. What SE is doing i'm taking as a unautherized attack and an invasion. With only 3 semesters of law school under my belt it would be a good challenege to take this to court.

[Feba]

Re: Why do you want to see what i do on my home computer?

What's the likelyhood of a single person, still going through law school, to pose a real threat to a corporation with plenty of lawyers?

Not to mention I highly doubt he was trying to evade you, he was most likely just tired of it, he has a job, he has better things to do.

And BTW, SE has never cared about the BBB. The BBB rates them low practically for not being a member, and that's why complaints there tend to pile up.

[Nakti]

Re: Why do you want to see what i do on my home computer?

The Sup also added to continue blocking POL services to do their jobs [scanning non-POL processes] will result in a termination of my content ID and will not be allowed to rejoin or play FFXI

I really hope SE wouldn't do this.

A computer user has the right to protect the contents of their computer. If SE insists on having access to non-POL files, I expect them to have a separate "click" agreement before every session of FFXI. "Can" is not the same as "must". There is a big big difference between SE can look at POL-related files and SE must look at non-POL-files for you to be allowed to play.

People who work for Security System companies are bonded and are supposed to go through extra security checks for the simple reason that any one of them might use the monitoring for their own nefarious purposes. If POL is doing this scanning and sending the results to a 3rd party, I expect them to have proof of the same checks in place.

**************************

I will continue to protect my own computer from outside malicious attacks. This includes firewalls, virus-scanning, and soon I hope process intrusion protection.

btw, Are there any other HIPS besides ProcessGuard? And are there some good sites for recommended reading? While I have some programming background, I'm not very familiar with how process reading and modification works.

[Mhurron]

Re: Why do you want to see what i do on my home computer?

What SE is doing i'm taking as a unautherized attack and an invasion. With only 3 semesters of law school under my belt it would be a good challenege to take this to court.

So this is why you're the way you are. SE doesn't care how much law school you've done, they have a department that has done more. You also don't have the money to be a threat.

SE has never cared about the BBB

No one cares about the BBB. They don't do anything and are a meaningless organization.

[little ninja]

Re: Why do you want to see what i do on my home computer?

Sad part is no doubt the 3rd party admin is probably sending all other finidngs to other 3rd party sites.

I dont need this game an like the OP i dont need my life ruined because of this fraud. I have officially terminated my account...

[Murphie]

Re: Why do you want to see what i do on my home computer?

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

[Feba]

Re: Why do you want to see what i do on my home computer?

...

So what are you planning to continue this with?


"Wait, it's nohing, COMING BACK LOL."


Bye.

[little ninja]

Re: Why do you want to see what i do on my home computer?

So what are you planning to continue this with?
"Wait, it's nohing, COMING BACK LOL."
Bye.

I dunno i sometimes finish sentences like that. When it first started it was an accident, But noe i sometimes add it in there..

To be honest its stupid for SoE to pull something like this, An once again nobody will give much of a damn because its their beloved FFXI, An SoE can do nothing wrong.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Why do you want to see what i do on my home computer?

For those really concerned about POL scanning, maybe POL/FFXI can be sandboxed and run inside of a VM? That way, it can only scan the processes inside of VM, and the user have fair amount of control over what those processes are.

[Nakti]

Re: Why do you want to see what i do on my home computer?

For those really concerned about POL scanning, maybe POL/FFXI can be sandboxed and run inside of a VM? That way, it can only scan the processes inside of VM, and the user have fair amount of control over what those processes are.

I'm not just concerned about POL scanning, I'm concerned about any program generally scanning my PC without my knowledge, *especially* a program that already sends and receives data from the Internet.

I naively thought Windows 32-bit systems were already supposed to prevent this sort of intrusion (each program supposed to have its own memory space etc). I'm interested in any way to keep programs "playing nice" on my PC. Even if I have to get a Mac lol.

And I wonder if the scanning will mysteriously stop after today's update? Either way, I'm testing out ProcessGuard tonight. I know it's not foolproof, but at least it's something.

[Feba]

Re: Why do you want to see what i do on my home computer?

To be honest its stupid for SoE to pull something like this, An once again nobody will give much of a damn because its their beloved FFXI, An SoE can do nothing wrong.

SoE has nothing to do with this.

[Mhurron]

Re: Why do you want to see what i do on my home computer?

I naively thought Windows 32-bit systems were already supposed to prevent this sort of intrusion (each program supposed to have its own memory space etc). I'm interested in any way to keep programs "playing nice" on my PC. Even if I have to get a Mac lol.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, oh damn thats funny.

BTW, neither Linux, Generic UNIX or OS X isolate processes memory like that. That is still the realm of special OS's. On top of that, is what POL doing reading allocated memory or files on a HDD, they're two very different things.

[KamuroIshigami]

Holes in story.

Well I called POL customer service on friday to clarifiy the scanning. They refference the same section to the user guide as i did in these posts so i still asked why they were continuing to scan due to the it not scanning just POL files and services.I spoke with a supervisor "Joshua" and he said that they've been doing this scan for 3 weeks now and people are just now noticing. I told him we shouldn't have to notice the scan we should have been made aware of the scan in the begining. After about 10 mins of going back and forth on why our computers and files are and are not considered POL Services i adviced the supervisor that i will continue to block any attempts by POL or SE to scan the contents of my computer besides POL services and files. Also I asked the sup what happens to the info that is collected from the scans. He told me that it is submitted to a 3rd party admin to verfiy and identify 3rd party programs in link with FFXI. The Sup also added to continue blocking POL services to do their jobs will result in a termination of my content ID and will not be allowed to rejoin or play FFXI and i added any more attempts to scan my personal PC will result in legal action on my behalf.

So since i called from my job i put him on hold to let him know something. Here at my call center job all incoming and out going calls are monitored for training purposes, yes even if they're out going calls. So i reiterated any more attempets to pursue info besides POL Services and Files within POL will reslut in this call being submitted to the Better Buisness Bureau and also this call submitted to my lawyer to seek legal action. He hung up before i could finish my sentence. Normally wouldn't a innocent person stay on the line to hear what they customer said and give his rebuttle?

So tell me they aren't doing this scan illegally and unimformed to its members. Please show me where it tells me SE may scan its members computers/HD for unrelated to FFXI information.

The only reason i'm aggriveted about this is becasue i was hacked before when i was just an ameture with computers. It cost me close to $3k before the bank found out it was fraud and stollen. i still can't get a credit card or home loans due to this being a huge red mark on my credit. It ruined my life and i'm not about to let it happen again. What SE is doing i'm taking as a unautherized attack and an invasion. With only 3 semesters of law school under my belt it would be a good challenege to take this to court.

I understand this field and there are weaknesses in this story that cast doubt on the credibility. While I am not calling you a liar and have not yet denounced your claims, I do request more evidence be presented than just your testimony, what you said about the POL customer service at this point is hearsay and hardly stands up against their official announcement denying it.

Weakness:

• You did not mention HOW you discovered POL was scanning.
• You did not mention HOW POL itself was scanning, lacking in any damning details to back your claim.
• The way in which you may have put it during the conversation may have you thinking one way about scanning, and them thinking another way about scanning. When you were talking about scanning your computer, you were thinking hard drive, but were they thinking about your connection/server communication to their servers? Those are two different things and are on two seperate legal grounds.
• You failed to ask them to cite what part of the Terms of Service or Privacy Policy gives them the authority to do what they do; and failed to refute them on those grounds. (doubt of legal experience)
• Not everything is solved via court, remember there are arbitration clauses, and you have to make sure there isn't one. (doubt of research)
• If a company leaks your credit card information, their violation of your privacy is one case (breach of contract), your financial loss due to their negligence is another (tort: negligence). And they carry different penalties. If you had prior issues where another company leaked your info due to THEIR negligence and not yours, then you got two grounds you can hit them with. But knowing how people are careless about computers.... (doubt of legal experience claim)
• If it is a case of fraud and unauthorized credit charges, the bank ALWAYS take the hit. Costing you $3,000? What were you doing? And if it was discovered that it was fraud that caused your credit to go bad, the bank will remove that from your credit report because it isn't your fault. Unless, of course, YOU were negligent about keeping your info safe. (doubt of completeness of detrimental experience story)
• The BBB does not have any legal force, and rarely do they even have any impact to online businesses. Your emphasis on it casts doubt in my eyes, may not for others though. (doubt of confidence in self legal grounds)
• Ulterior motives: Were you banned for fish botting? Speed hack? Windower plug-in/add-on use? What really prompted you to ask?

All you really need to do to refute my claims/contest is answer the second one and post technical details. But explaining the rest of my questions or defeating the points I put up will be a good path towards a solid claim to initiate community action.

[Celeal]

Re: Why do you want to see what i do on my home computer?

The OP is saying POL is scanning processes, not files, right?

Why not just stop those applications/processes before you launch POL? Let say close your Internet Explorer before you run POL... I know some processes needs to be running in order for Windows to function, but applications like e-mail client or Web Browser can be closed before you play FFXI.

If the application/process is not running, means nothing to scan (in memory space), thus nothing to worry about.

If POL is scanning files physically in the hard drive, then I would say it is an issue. However, according to the OP, it is not the case.