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What are the chances for a "Clear Heart" ability?

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  • What are the chances for a "Clear Heart" ability?

    I was thinking about the ability "Clear Mind," while looking at the http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Blue_Mage_Job_Traits page, and noticed that where a verbally equal opposite exsisted to a trait (Attack Bonus & Defense Bonus, Autos Regen and Refresh, Accuracy & Evasion Bonuses, etcetera), it was possible for a Blue Mage to get either.

    But then I noticed "Clear Mind." After looking all over the site http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/ I noticed that there existed no equivalent for HP. And while I know it is prudent for those particular back-line Mages to rest often mid-battle, and that Clear Mind helps them achieve what they aim to by doing it (more MP for thier spells), certainly there could be introduced an equivalent for Meleers? It can help reduce thier downtime, and the healers' downtime, in-between battles.

    What do you all think? Good idea? Bad idea? I should crawl back into a hole?
    Originally posted by Armando
    No one at Square Enix has heard of Occam's Razor.
    Originally posted by Armando
    Nintendo always seems to have a legion of haters at the wings ready to jump in and prop up straw men about hardware and gimmicks and casuals.
    Originally posted by Taskmage
    GOD IS MIFFED AT AMERICA

    REPENT SINNERS OR AT LEAST GIVE A NONCOMMITTAL SHRUG

    GOD IS AMBIVALENT ABOUT FURRIES

    THE END IS COMING ONE OF THESE DAYS WHEN GOD GETS AROUND TO IT
    Originally posted by Taskmage
    However much I am actually smart, I got that way by confronting how stupid I am.
    Matthew 16:15

  • #2
    Re: What are the chances for a "Clear Heart" ability?

    Intresting idea for hHP trait, but I'm not as sure on how much intrest it really has. I mean a WHM is likely to keep the Melee's near full anyway along with if Melee's are resting they are destroying the TP they gained. So there just isn't enough times were a Melee would be resting to make that trait worth it.

    The hHP idea seems more beneficial for soloing aspects then anything.


    Cheezy Test Result (I am nerdier than 96% of all people. Are you nerdier? Click here to find out!)

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    • #3
      Re: What are the chances for a "Clear Heart" ability?

      that would be pretty cool for soloing


      Wii code: 6851 9579 6989 9039

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      • #4
        Re: What are the chances for a "Clear Heart" ability?

        There are a number of items and foods that improve hHP already - and I don't know of any reason that any job would need or want hHP innately.

        http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/list...hile%20Healing

        More to the point, Garlic Crackers are easy to make for even mid-level Cooks, as is Goblin Chocolate. The NQ version of these foods last 3 minutes and give +5 HP recovered while healing.

        And of course the R/EX Gelong Staff which gives +4 hHP and is ridiculously easy to get.


        Icemage

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        • #5
          Re: What are the chances for a "Clear Heart" ability?

          What I think would be much more useful would be a trait that reduced TP loss to healing. Imagine if (say) BLU, PLD and DRK could rest losing only 5 TP per healing increment instead of the usual 10. With the advent of Absorb-TP, that small an amount of TP loss would no longer be an impediment to DRK resting in parties (at least once every couple fights, and assuming they're not the puller), which would allow them to use their spells more freely; meanwhile, PLD and BLU already *do* rest in parties, but pay quite a lot of TP to do it.

          This wouldn't do much to overall balance because PLD and BLU can't get that much benefit from their TP anyway (compared to other jobs) and DRK still needs a boost (IMO).

          Although the chief effect of this trait would be to let those jobs get back their *MP* with less TP cost; nobody rests for HP if they have a choice because it's so slow and TP-costly. Even soloers, these days, are better advised to use a healer NPC if for some reason they don't want to sub WHM, RDM, or BLU.
          Defeated: Maat, Divine Might, Fenrir, Kirin, Cactrot Rapido, Xolotl, Diabolos Prime, Kurrea, 9/10 Dynamis Bosses (missing Tav), Promathia, Proto-Ultima, Proto-Omega, 4 Jailers, Apocalypse Nigh, 6/6 Nyzul Bosses
          RDM90, PLD90, DRG90, COR90, SCH90, BLU54
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          • #6
            Re: What are the chances for a "Clear Heart" ability?

            Hmm I don't know. There are many reasons to keep the HP in the yellow currently, like triggering the level 50 rings latent effects. And PLD can really use that little HP to cure for more hate at the beginning of the fight. So, don't give it to PLD or WAR at the least.
            There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
            but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence
            transform a yellow spot into the sun.

            - Pablo Picasso

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            • #7
              Re: What are the chances for a "Clear Heart" ability?

              Monk, Sam, Drk, Drg and Bst would most likely benefit from this the most due to mnk's naturally high hp and they are like smns mp but with hp yet they don't have clear body to balance with clear mind and max mp boost. Sam for their tp position, drk so they don't feel left out, Drg and Bst since they can solo as well as exp in pties.
              Adventures of Akashimo Hakubi & Nekoai Nanashi


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              • #8
                Re: What are the chances for a "Clear Heart" ability?

                Originally posted by Akashimo View Post
                Monk, Sam, Drk, Drg and Bst would most likely benefit from this the most due to mnk's naturally high hp and they are like smns mp but with hp yet they don't have clear body to balance with clear mind and max mp boost. Sam for their tp position, drk so they don't feel left out, Drg and Bst since they can solo as well as exp in pties.
                Melees aren't designed to rest, in any case.

                Monks have Chakra, and they have a bit of hHP on their AF2 armor as well. Dark Knights have Drain and Aspir. Dragoons have the option to sub mage to activate Healing Breath.

                BST don't do the dirty work of taking damage themselves anyway, though to be fair they're also the only job in your list who even do any resting.

                I suppose I'm a bit dubious about any job trait or ability that encourages melees to rest (personally I think it'd be way more interesting if you gained TP while resting, but that would really wreck game balance maybe... though if the TP gain were mild it wouldn't be bad probably - perhaps +2% per heal tick instead of -10%).


                Icemage

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                • #9
                  Re: What are the chances for a "Clear Heart" ability?

                  Lets see... at +2 TP/tick, they would reach 100 TP at... 50 ticks... to 510 seconds... a little under 9 minutes O.o Dosn't seem bad to me at all, because 9 minutes off a BCNM fight or something can be a pretty setback and even a loss if it dosn't go quite as planned.
                  Originally posted by Ellipses
                  Really, it's just like pretty much every question about this game that begins with "Why." The answer is "Because."
                  Originally posted by MCLV
                  A subjob is like sex, you shouldn't have it untill your 18 but if you don't have it after 21 everyone laughs at you.
                  More Sig:

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                  • #10
                    Re: What are the chances for a "Clear Heart" ability?

                    I like the idea because it adds to the solobility of the game. I think a little more solo incentive wouldn't hurt anything. It's not like it would turn the game into WoW or anything, but just make being lfg a little more eventful for those not fortunate enough to be well funded for crafting.

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                    • #11
                      Re: What are the chances for a "Clear Heart" ability?

                      I've never tried it before, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I think if you're hit while resting, you stop resting, correct? If so, the last people to get anything like this would be those who even THINK of tanking (and don't say anything about Ninjas, because they don't even need anything like this).

                      This, however, would be a rightful boon to Beastmasters, Dragoons, Monks, Red Mages, and, of course, Blue Mages: Red and Blue Mages are supposed to be Mageknights in the first place, so access to both Clear Traits seems reasonable (RDMs have both bonuses to some of thier JSE, like thier Relic Accesory "Duelist's Belt," for example); Beastmasters could use it, as said earlier, for better soloing; Dragoons . . . they just need a tiny bit more love as far as Job Traits go, imo; and Monks are the kings of HP, so it would be a disgrace NOT to give it to them.

                      Clear Heart V could be available to Level 75 Beastmasters and Level 70 Monks.

                      Blue Mages and Dragoons would have access up to Clear Heart IV, and just as with Clear Mind, Red Mages would only get up to III, at 75.

                      I think this not only makes sense from a logical and practical standpoints, but from a roleplaying standpoint, too. What do you all think?

                      Clear Heart would not have any standing upon TP during rest, however that was an interesting idea brought up for a Job Trait that DOES have a standing on TP loss/gain while resting, and I personally wouldn't mind seeing it develop. However, that does not mean I promote this thread getting off-topic.

                      If anybody has any better ideas on this concept, please let me know.
                      Originally posted by Armando
                      No one at Square Enix has heard of Occam's Razor.
                      Originally posted by Armando
                      Nintendo always seems to have a legion of haters at the wings ready to jump in and prop up straw men about hardware and gimmicks and casuals.
                      Originally posted by Taskmage
                      GOD IS MIFFED AT AMERICA

                      REPENT SINNERS OR AT LEAST GIVE A NONCOMMITTAL SHRUG

                      GOD IS AMBIVALENT ABOUT FURRIES

                      THE END IS COMING ONE OF THESE DAYS WHEN GOD GETS AROUND TO IT
                      Originally posted by Taskmage
                      However much I am actually smart, I got that way by confronting how stupid I am.
                      Matthew 16:15

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                      • #12
                        Re: What are the chances for a "Clear Heart" ability?

                        Originally posted by Yellow Mage View Post
                        I've never tried it before, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I think if you're hit while resting, you stop resting, correct? If so, the last people to get anything like this would be those who even THINK of tanking (and don't say anything about Ninjas, because they don't even need anything like this).
                        Not precisely accurate; you stop resting if you take damage. If you have a Stoneskin effect up and get hit for 0, you'll continue resting (this is a very important tactic sometimes).

                        This, however, would be a rightful boon to Beastmasters, Dragoons, Monks, Red Mages, and, of course, Blue Mages: Red and Blue Mages are supposed to be Mageknights in the first place, so access to both Clear Traits seems reasonable (RDMs have both bonuses to some of thier JSE, like thier Relic Accesory "Duelist's Belt," for example); Beastmasters could use it, as said earlier, for better soloing; Dragoons . . . they just need a tiny bit more love as far as Job Traits go, imo; and Monks are the kings of HP, so it would be a disgrace NOT to give it to them.
                        Giving job traits to jobs that can't make any use of them is a pointless. Dragoons don't rest much, and certainly not for HP - they're the most efficient healers in the game when they're using a mage subjob, and would be the absolute last on my list of jobs to give a trait like this to.

                        Red Mages? Please say no. Red Mages don't rest much if at all past level 41 once they have both Refresh and Convert. I know I haven't rested as a RDM but maybe once during down time around level 62, and I've never rested ... ever... on RDM at level 75.

                        Blue mages come in two varieties - combat BLU who fight and gain TP, and healer BLU/WHMs who backline and pretend to be WHMs with perks. The first group won't be resting since it'll wreck their TP. The second type doesn't normally take damage. So again, pointless to give it to Blue Mages when they won't make any use of it.

                        I think this not only makes sense from a logical and practical standpoints, but from a roleplaying standpoint, too. What do you all think?
                        If we were assigning abilities based on roleplaying, Monks would have Meditate. Fortunately, there's this thing called "game balance" that makes us wake up and realize that it's in our best interest to make sure all jobs stay at least relatively balanced and useful.


                        Icemage

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                        • #13
                          Re: What are the chances for a "Clear Heart" ability?

                          Mnks should be able to use all weapons xD

                          The TP idea is nice. I think instead of generating TP while sitting, a trait that reduce TP lost would be useful enough.
                          There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
                          but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence
                          transform a yellow spot into the sun.

                          - Pablo Picasso

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                          • #14
                            Re: What are the chances for a "Clear Heart" ability?

                            Ok, thank you all for your feedback. I'll edit this post and comment more when I wake up XD .
                            Originally posted by Armando
                            No one at Square Enix has heard of Occam's Razor.
                            Originally posted by Armando
                            Nintendo always seems to have a legion of haters at the wings ready to jump in and prop up straw men about hardware and gimmicks and casuals.
                            Originally posted by Taskmage
                            GOD IS MIFFED AT AMERICA

                            REPENT SINNERS OR AT LEAST GIVE A NONCOMMITTAL SHRUG

                            GOD IS AMBIVALENT ABOUT FURRIES

                            THE END IS COMING ONE OF THESE DAYS WHEN GOD GETS AROUND TO IT
                            Originally posted by Taskmage
                            However much I am actually smart, I got that way by confronting how stupid I am.
                            Matthew 16:15

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: What are the chances for a "Clear Heart" ability?

                              Kudos on your fresh thinking, and working along with the balance of the game, but I think the only job that should gain this trait would be BST. At least how the OP outlined it in their first post.

                              As Icemage pointed out, melee's just should not be resting unless they're Weakened, and even then most of them just melee anyway so the party doesn't have to completely stop. In a Skillchain party you wanna make sure you're right in line with your Skillchain partner, and in a Burn party you want to make sure you don't fall back in your damage by having to wait longer to pop your WS.

                              I really like the job trait that either reduces the TP you lose when /heal'n, or the trait that actually rewards you a small amount of TP while /heal'n. There are times as DRK that I don't EXP on mobs with MP to Aspir, and a RDM who just shows me no love. Fortunately I do have a Parade Gorget (Which is a recent addition to my toys and I don't always remember I have it! lol), coupled with Refresh Sanction, and 2 MP Merits I don't have to rely heavily on a RDM, but sometimes I'm not so lucky. So if I am forced to /heal, it would be nice to lose a reduce amount of TP. BLU, DRK & PLD would greatly benefit from this. So if you /heal for 4 ticks, in stead of losing 40% TP, you only lose 20% and that's something you can regain quickly, especially for DRK.

                              The +2%TP per tick is another idea I like and can't immediately see any balancing issues. Give it to PLD, DRK, BLU, and maybe SMN. Since S-E seems to have eluded to wanting SMNs to melee. (Adding TP to the SMN when using their Category 2 Merited BPs.) Though, knowing S-E as we do you'd still lose 10% per tick while /heal'n, but they'd "give you" 2% each time as well. So you'd only lose 8%. I can't imagine they would just completely halt the lose of TP while /heal'n, though it would make us Melee MP users quite happy.

                              And RDM doesn't /heal. I Merited for 4 hours on Monday, the only times I /heal'd was when we took breaks. BRD was pulling and only gave me Ballads about 15% of the time, but I still have plenty of MP, plenty of Refresh, plenty of skill, and Convert to make sure I never once had to rest. I even had MP enough to nuke and help push our chains in to the 20's a few times.
                              Odude
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