Suggested tweak to pld and whm

[Raydeus]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

I was just responding to the comment above. I should have quoted.

I know

[Murphie]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

I'm a terrible quoter, I admit. I do agree with what you said though, Raydeus. :p

[Lmnop]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

You shouldn't. He's wrong.

I'm one of the most desired jobs for tp burn party. All you need is 3 me's, a nin, a rdm, and a BARD.

Why the fuck would I care if my job can't do everything in the game?

I didn't level Warrior to lullaby. I didn't level Warrior to use Souleater. I didn't level Warrior to suddenly be a Red Mage and solo Genbu. So don't shove words in my mouth.

If you want the best exp in the game, you need a Bard. Even Corsairs want bards in their parties. Oh, can't forget that this is true for any layout. All the tp burns, all the manaburns, and all the standard parties just function better with a Bard.

How many BCs have you heard of where Bards aren't good? The only thing that I can think of is maybe Promyvions. But then, I loved having a BRD when I did promies with one. On the other hand, how many BC battles have you heard where people say "you need a bard?" Lots, for me. Granted, a lot of that is in the player's minds. But let's face it. If FFXI community says you can't do X battle without Y jobs, you're very often hard pressed to convince others that it's not true.

Ultimate pullers, buffers, sleepers, a slow effect that's more potent than fully meritted Slow 2 with full MND gear, oh and they're kick-ass tanks too.

But gosh, I didn't wanna say all of that.

In other news:

and in WHM's case, by the fact that you can't heal more than all the damage your party is taking

S-E needs to mull this over for a while. Cure-> Stoneskin go! (ok, that may be cheap/overpowered/impossible to program).

And Karinya, everyone I've talked to on my server seems to hate Corsairs. No one gives them a spot in important things. My server sucks though and I can only pray for the well-being of CORs elsewhere.

[Murphie]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

So what does this have to do with the abilities a BRD has? If players are going to be so reliant on one job, then that's their own fault. You seem to be pretty angry about it, but that doesn't make you right.

[Akashimo]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

Sounded more like a rant more than anything to me =x
Anyways, bards aren't usually the best in some setups i've toyed with. Nor have I seen them work in BCNM40 Worms Turn or KSNM30 ODS, and Prommies I'd rather have a DD or smn than brd.
WAR, you can use SE just /drk >_>, any job as a capibility to do almost anything if you adjust yourself to do so and break out of the sterotypical mold for what a job can or cant do.
Phalanxed tank as rdm/war against puks, and took dmg comparable to a pld of the same lvl. Whm/nin dd easily and got sizeable hexa thanks to dual weild. Thf mini tank for merits against Sea Puks thanks to eva and voke. BRD just has been made to be more reliable for what we 'want' them for with little changes made to them.

[Vyuru]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

In regards to Lmnop's post:

Although it's an interesting idea, I don't think it would be a good idea to put a limit on refresh, even one that can be extended like you suggest. To be honest I can't really say why I don't like it, I just don't think it's a good idea after all this time of bards working a certain way.

I do like the idea of overlapping/overwriting effects from songs, yeah it's nice to stack the songs together, but I do think that for the more powerful version should overwrite the weaker version of the song.

Oh, and this would also boost Corsair indirectly as they could always have a means of increasing the refresh beyond normal cap just by having a SMN in the party. That would reduce the amount of bitch-ery we hear about people who don't like the "inconsistent" buffs of COR.

Geesh, people complain about that? Sure they can be a bit inconsistent, but all of them are kickass buffs, good lord, Warrior's Roll especially is insane no matter what you roll.

this is just another "they have (/can do) something I don't (/can't) so they need to be nerfed" kinda thing.

It really isn't, Lmnop said no such thing.

If players are going to be so reliant on one job, then that's their own fault. You seem to be pretty angry about it, but that doesn't make you right.

I think it has more to do with the fact that the players are so reliant on one job, for only a few of the abilities that this job does. Really, 99% of the bards I party with only use att+, acc+, and ballad songs, maybe a lullaby, possibly a dispel, depends on mob/buff used, and that is it. If we're lucky, the bard will toss out the debuffs to make the mob weaker to an element for the blm or smn in the party. I don't see the blm getting int+, which I don't know, but at 60+ with all of their +elemental skill, would it really help them at all? Even so, there are alot of potentially useful songs that bards just do not seem to use.

[Akashimo]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

Simple really, bards only think they need songs people want them for! >_>; Stack that with wars at 75 and easy merits for jobs people don't invite.
Edit: Reference to those who level merit favorable jobs to get merits for unfavorable jobs.

[Murphie]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

I just don't think that jobs should be changed because Players don't want to use different ones, or use them to the fullest extent of their abilities.

[Raydeus]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

Not to mention you can't change the player's mentality with nerfs, the only thing that changes player's ways are results.

Make a regular party that can make the same xp/hr as a burn party and players will be open to try regular parties again. Nerf the crap out of the current Aht Urgan burns and players will just move to the next burnable thing, so the nerfs will never end till players simply quit the game.

I really thought after the RNG nerf and how it went (nothing changed at all) people would've understood that.

[Murphie]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

Exactly. Nerf BRD, and folks are just going to find a workaround. Then there will be a new princess job, and people will call for it to be nerfed as well (likely RDM).

[Lmnop]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

I don't agree with you, Murphie, but thank you for being civil. I guess I do sound angry in the above posts.

I'll reiterate that I think BRDs are too powerful only in regards to having too much functionality. They're simply part of the ideal layout in far too many situations. And that ideal layout revolves around 5-8 songs out of their hundreds to sing.

I have another layer to it: I want BRD to be more interesting. Bard may be incredible, but most bards suck because their job is so boring that they don't pay attention to what's going on. I make it a point to praise every good bard I have in party chat and point out how wonderful they must be to be able to stand the monotony. I want something that forces them to vary their songs more to give them something to focus on. And yes, Vyuru, In the instance of making it so you can only have 1 March, I'd make it so the better one automatically overwrites the weaker.

Akashimo, you have no idea what I'm talking about. You somehow want to turn it into how not open-minded I am. And no one should have to level Warrior just for merits for their PLD. And so we come full circle.

We have a PLD on my server with Excalibur -- EXCALIBUR! He merits on his War/nin with Ridill because he thinks it performs better. If you don't see what's wrong with this, you simply don't understand the concept of online gaming enough to be making suggestions.

And yeah, my refresh idea pretty much sucks. >.> As Karinya pointed out, since we don't need high refresh for anything, it wouldn't fix anything.

[Icemage]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

I'd be more than happy to see a change in Bard mechanics, but that would be very hard to do. Make their buffs too weak and now you have no reason to use them. Improve their other buffs and you make pro-Bard favoritism even stronger. If you really look at it, Bards are only strong when they have many people to give buffs to.


Icemage

[Celeal]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

Maybe tweat the buff song with it strength depends on how many ppl received the buff? Let say March on 3 ppl is faster than March on 5 ppl?

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

I only have one thing to say.

Utsusemi.

It's broken.

SE needs to nerf it to Blink Magic effectiveness lol or worse.

Then we have problem solved.

Now, can I get an AMEN brothers?

[Vyuru]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

Make their buffs too weak and now you have no reason to use them. Improve their other buffs and you make pro-Bard favoritism even stronger.

I'd change the buffs so that the higher tier buffs are stronger than their current counterparts.

Example, Valor Minuet is the attack+ song right? I always forget However, make it so that the changed Valor Minuet II is stronger than the current Valor Minuet II, but weaker than having both Valor Minuet I and II on you. This way bards do loose a little when compared to having 2x of the same song stacked, but they gain when compared to having two different songs on the melee.

Songs like Army Paeon and Mage's Ballad I'd leave as is, and I don't know about the +stat songs, I never see them used so I don't know that much about them.

Utsusemi.

It's broken.

SE needs to nerf it to Blink Magic effectiveness lol or worse.

Then we have problem solved.

Now, can I get an AMEN brothers?

I'd have to say only when subbed, the playerbase has made ninja into such a DD/tank role that I don't think they'd ever be given the chance to melee. Otherwise I agree.