Suggested tweak to pld and whm

[Vyuru]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

Because it is, quite frankly, insulting to the BLM and they're not built for the task at all. Cure III is the best it gets for them, they have no access to the higher tier Regens (which most WHMs don't seem to know how to use anyway).

I still don't see why that is bad, because the same is true for smn main healers who probably won't get to use their summons who also have damaging and beneficial blood pacts.

PLDs are to tank and DD not to support heal

I've been toying with the idea of a pld DD/backup healer ever since they got Refresh, reading this thread is what really got the idea fixed in my mind:

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/pal...rrent-day.html

Anyways, yeah, PLDs shouldn't be FORCED to play the support DD role in order to gain merit points, but I don't see why a PLD can't fill the role when needed.

I don't want to force players into a role they don't want, but pld seems to be built for it, or if not built for it at least it is easily within their ability to do it. The only hard part would be to keep your Gsword capped if that's what you want to use, if a pld wasn't resting all the time and losing TP I'm sure even a sword+shield combo would work well enough for backup DD, Vorpal Blade is a pretty nifty WS.

I like the idea that Healing Magic should have more of an impact on healing, but I don't like the resists for curing, that would just kill smn as a main healer, a role that they are shoved into.

because instead of boosting all your melee, the rdm is debuffing every mob equivalently.

I'm all for giving rdm more enfeebles, but don't they already have enfeebles that are equivilant to brd songs?

Gravity gives -movement rate and -evasion, so that's +acc for melees
Blind reduces accuracy, kind of like evasion+
Dia I/II gives -def, a slight +att boost for melee
Slow gives, well Slow, so in relation to the mob it's like giving the melees Haste.
Paraylze is like giving melees a Killer trait to intimadate the mob.

The only problem with enfeebles is that they are restricted to the mob, once the mob dies you have to cast them all over again. In TP/fast killing parties the mob normally doesn't live long enough to make it worthwhile to enfeeble it. Toss in lazy rdm to that, and I don't think I have seen ANY rdm enfeeble from levels 60-67. This includes parties that I have taken to the Boyahada Tree for crabs/crawlers, Bibiki Bay for birds/gobs/dhalmels, and ToAU for mixed TP burn/standard parties.

Emurei's idea is interesting, but I think it wouldn't be good when you consider all of the higher level people farming/leveling npcs/doing whatever. Just thinking about the Lesser Colibri camps, there are a ton of lvl 75s killing all Lesser Colibri outside the exits to Al Zhabi, it sounds like that would kill exp for lower levels.

There are alot of zones where this would effect the exp, Garliage, Valkurm, Crawler's Nest, Kuftal, probably others as well. I think it would definatly promote alternate exp campsites, but I also think people could be real asses about it if they wanted to as well.

I like Karinya's and Icemage's ideas the best. I would love to be able to do smaller parties, alot of times when I want to exp there just aren't that many people online and you can't make a full party, and I think your ideas would really help with that.

PLD tanking is a LOT more attractive if your party is PLD RDM DRK DRG for instance.

Toss in a drk/brd or something and you could even remove the rdm from the party, not that I don't like rdm, it's just they are hard to find sometimes, as are bards.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

Fact: 3-4 melees sharing hate with /NIN or Third Eye from /SAM is more efficient than PLD main tanking. It gives less hate control, but not by much, and actually saves healers a ton of MP, which is hate control of another kind. Not only is it more efficient in the short term since you are expecting your DDs to lose some enmity sooner or later from being attacked, but healing magics are also more efficient; you now have 3-4 targets to put Regens on, and the likelihood that area effect cures like Curaga, Spring Water and Healing Breeze will be more efficient than the respective Cure spells goes way up.

Hyperbole is now fact?

People make much ado about nothing in regards to this myth that you've become some kind of MP sponge if you don't sub /NIN or even /SAM for every PT now. Its not the case at all.

For anyjob to really, really tank people have to watch their hate. They gotta know where that hate line is and when it isn't appropriate to cross it.

Problem is, people don't, they just spam WS and expect /NIN to save them. It won't save you from AOE mobs, it won't save you when you've created too large of a hate spike. When you cross the hate line, you HAVE become the MP sponge, you never become one for not subbing /NIN.

The whole point to tanking, the REAL definition, is for one to pull the most enmity and take the hits so others don't have to - and PLD is king there. Problem is these days, melees will not let any tanks do that. We can rationalize how it is efficent for EXP per hour to sub /NIN and spam WS, but stop pretending that's hate control and MP management.

SE cannot fix the playerbases selfish desire to be the guy that kills the monster and get as much EXP per hour as they can. However, they can scale jobs down so various roles can once again retain their intended functions. People just don't like to admit when a little nerfing is needed, instead, they want other jobs to "catch up."

That's not fixing the game folks, that's just breaking it further. There's a difference between game design and the pissing contest that ensues in the community. You should accept there are times you need to adapt your style of play for the situation instead of being selfish and constantly striving for the EXP bottom line.

I still don't see why that is bad, because the same is true for smn main healers who probably won't get to use their summons who also have damaging and beneficial blood pacts.

Because they don't want to? WAR might be able to tank, but when you invite him to tank without telling him that's what you need, you're an ass for it. They have the right to bail. Same goes for assuming a SMN, RDM or BLM will main heal just because you invited them.

I'm quite upfront about how I want to play my jobs, if you invite my COR and expect me to sub /WHM just because BRDs do, prepare to get an earful. Not to mention this is a support class I pay out the nose to play per level unlike my RDM and BRD counter parts. 46 gil per sleep and dispel, 90 gil a shot. I'm just a shrewd with RNG and that was a lot harder to level.

I know how and when to apply /WHM, but I'll decide what hows and whens I'll be participating in, everyone has that right. But again, what players want, what's ideal and what SE intends for a job are all different things.

[Raydeus]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

Problem is, people don't, they just spam WS and expect /NIN to save them. It won't save you from AOE mobs, it won't save you when you've created too large of a hate spike. When you cross the hate line, you HAVE become the MP sponge, you never become one for not subbing /NIN.

The whole point to tanking, the REAL definition, is for one to pull the most enmity and take the hits so others don't have to - and PLD is king there. Problem is these days, melees will not let any tanks do that. We can rationalize how it is efficent for EXP per hour to sub /NIN and spam WS, but stop pretending that's hate control and MP management.

The advantage of this /NIN is that all DD can go all out without worrying about Emnity, 6 shadows (9 if the DD knows how to play with timers) are more than enough for another DD to take hate from you. What matters in a TP burn is to kill mobs fast, killing mobs fast means using less mp per kill and less downtime, plus more xp/hr.

So until PLD (or any tank for that matter) has the ability of keeping himself at the top of the hate list without having to ask the DD to hold back in their attacks then DD/NIN will be the most efficient way of doing things.

As a PLD I find it really hard to keep hate from a good DD going all out. Granted, I can keep hate from Hundred Fists and others but to do that I gotta use many hate generating abilities that are in a really long recast timer.

Which means next fight I'll be only using Flash and Voke to keep hate. And if you consider the party is fighting at least 5 mobs in the time Sentinel, Warcry and Rampart cool down then you can see why even a PLD has troubles keeping hate.

Which causes DDs to have to hold back, which makes fights last longer, which makes me as a PLD tank take more damage, which causes me and the main healer to use more MP, which causes XP to slow down, which causes /NIN to be the preferred sub. >.<

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

The advantage of this /NIN is that all DD can go all out without worrying about Emnity, 6 shadows (9 if the DD knows how to play with timers) are more than enough for another DD to take hate from you. What matters in a TP burn is to kill mobs fast, killing mobs fast means using less mp per kill and less downtime, plus more xp/hr

...blah, yadda, yarkitty, blah, yadda...

Which causes DDs to have to hold back, which makes fights last longer, which makes me as a PLD tank take more damage, which causes me and the main healer to use more MP, which causes XP to slow down, which causes /NIN to be the preferred sub. >.<

I think its just my perspective that every PT I join is an opportunity to learn more about my job and how to play it more effectively. I don't care about my EXP per hour as much as I do learning to function with the full range of jobs in this game.

I've always looked at the jobs that way, I won't refuse a PLD tank in most cases. I'll PT with PUP, DRG, BST or whatever other job this community wants to treat like a bastard stepchild.

Each job has a purpose.
Each job has a role an intended function.
And why refuse a good player EXP just because you can get more elsewhere?

I think its hypocritical and pathetic that people won't invite BLM or PLD to merit these days, yet come crying to them when they need Fafnir tanked or a CoP manaburned.

Support your friends, support your LS members. Fuck the bottom line and just have fun.

[DieselBoy09]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

I think if White mages had a job trait that reduced the cost of spells every couple of levels, and had alittle more offensive holy elemental magic, it might even things out~ Or a larger mana pool, but then the mana pool would somewhat steal the summoners thunder.

[Icemage]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

Hyperbole is now fact?

People make much ado about nothing in regards to this myth that you've become some kind of MP sponge if you don't sub /NIN or even /SAM for every PT now. Its not the case at all.

It's not hyperbole. It is hard, chilling reality. Pulling temporary hate with Utsusemi or Third Eye up results in no cost the the party's MP reserves. Pulling temporary hate without either hurts the party's offensive output (Defender, Super Jump, whatever), or dips into MP to heal the person that drew hate.

For any job to really, really tank people have to watch their hate. They gotta know where that hate line is and when it isn't appropriate to cross it.

...and the fact that people DO have to hold back in a traditional party limits the party's output. The reason TP burns and manaburns and other variations thereof work so well is that no one is holding back; you're literally killing things as fast as humanly possible.

Problem is, people don't, they just spam WS and expect /NIN to save them.

Hate to break it to you, but it works.

It won't save you from AOE mobs, it won't save you when you've created too large of a hate spike. When you cross the hate line, you HAVE become the MP sponge, you never become one for not subbing /NIN.

By definition everyone in a TP-burn party is crossing the hate line constantly. By the same token, a job combination without Utsusemi or Third Eye will be much worse off than one with after drawing hate.

As for AoE mobs, most people don't burn those specifically because it negates much of the defensive boosts of having shadows/third eye.

The whole point to tanking, the REAL definition, is for one to pull the most enmity and take the hits so others don't have to - and PLD is king there. Problem is these days, melees will not let any tanks do that. We can rationalize how it is efficent for EXP per hour to sub /NIN and spam WS, but stop pretending that's hate control and MP management.

It's not hate control, it IS MP management. I spend way less MP per battle keeping a TP-burn party alive than I do with a PLD tank. And the XP per hour IS better. I've been averaging 15K per hour lately at level 75 while playing RDM in merit parties. There's no way I can top 10K per hour with a traditional XP party even at 75. Again, not a rationalization. These are real numbers.

SE cannot fix the playerbases selfish desire to be the guy that kills the monster and get as much EXP per hour as they can. However, they can scale jobs down so various roles can once again retain their intended functions. People just don't like to admit when a little nerfing is needed, instead, they want other jobs to "catch up."

Are you suggesting that everything go back to the way things were, with PLD, NIN and BLMs as kings of XP parties? Much as I'm not terribly fond of burn parties, that doesn't mean I can't stare reality in the face and understand that TP burns and mana burns work, and that they really are more efficient than a standard party.

That's not fixing the game folks, that's just breaking it further. There's a difference between game design and the pissing contest that ensues in the community. You should accept there are times you need to adapt your style of play for the situation instead of being selfish and constantly striving for the EXP bottom line.

Because they don't want to? WAR might be able to tank, but when you invite him to tank without telling him that's what you need, you're an ass for it. They have the right to bail. Same goes for assuming a SMN, RDM or BLM will main heal just because you invited them.

I'm quite upfront about how I want to play my jobs, if you invite my COR and expect me to sub /WHM just because BRDs do, prepare to get an earful. Not to mention this is a support class I pay out the nose to play per level unlike my RDM and BRD counter parts. 46 gil per sleep and dispel, 90 gil a shot. I'm just a shrewd with RNG and that was a lot harder to level.

OK, so you're saying that a level 70 Paladin should automatically and without thought refuse to DD/heal simply because you personally expect him to tank? Never mind that he'll probably get more XP that way, and that traditional XP party invites are rare as diamonds these days

What happened to "needing to adapt your style of play"?

I know how and when to apply /WHM, but I'll decide what hows and whens I'll be participating in, everyone has that right. But again, what players want, what's ideal and what SE intends for a job are all different things.

If people really want to refuse to do something, that's fine. But the logic does not follow that just because some people don't want to play a job a certain way, it doesn't mean it isn't going to be the most effective use of that job. Look at the evolution of Ninja for instance - how many people objected to Ninja tanks at the beginning? Sure, I'm sure there were plenty of people who said : "Wow, shihei are expensive and rare, I'm not going to do that". Not even Square-Enix wanted it to happen. But reality eventually won out and people came to understand that Ninjas can in fact tank quite capably, and very efficiently.

Bottom line: If you want to be a rebel and do your own thing, so be it. But evaluate performance with an unbiased eye; just because no one else is doing things a certain way doesnt mean it's not effective - and just because it's something you want to do doesn't mean it is the most effective way either.


Icemage

[TenchiHawkwing]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

You know what, I subscribe to the PLD backup tank/backup healer/DD thing, actually, I've partied like that at a number of levels... sometimes letting other PLD/WARs tank in the 50s, sometimes NIN/WARs in the 60s, duo with other PLD/NIN holding hate.

(While it doesn't have much to do with EXP, I know that PLD/NIN can produce enough hate to keep up with a NIN/WAR on Ultima and Omega PM6-4[Just giving this info to those a bit skeptical], because I did that just last night. I accidently pulled hate a few times, last of which on Omega I got hit with a Pile Pitch ;

It works, plain and simple. It might hurt someone's pride to play the job this way, but sorry... it's just effective. If you're with another PLD and you have a WHM, get a flash order going, if you're with a NIN or WAR, flash when they start casting Ichi, etc. You're a great support to any tank. You bring shadows to the table EVEN when you don't have hate. Cover.

When you pull hate you have shadows possibly (depending on how/when you pulled hate) and even if you don't you have Sentinel. You have Rampart for -gas. Come on, PLD fills this role perfectly. Heck, I didn't even mention yet that truth be told, we're not that far behind most DDs in terms of damage at most levels IF geared for it. A pimped out 75PLD/NIN can keep up with almost anyone. (I'm talking Justice/Joy, Homam&Heca, Sea torque, WS gorget Speed/Swift belt... the works).

Please don't get me wrong here, I love bloodtanking my share of enemies as PLD in our white armor... it's fun. But with the current state of things, it's not as effective as having two gearsets and your NIN sub available. Things are changing, people are finally finding other roles PLD can fill.

Are you up to the task of filling them?

[Karinya]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

Icemage: What you are overlooking is that those tactics only work when the monster is too weak to do anything about them. Monsters that weak shouldn't be giving good exp in the first place, but they are because the exp table is 14 levels out of date for 75 PTs.

As soon as you fight something that *can* get through subbed utsusemi and *hurts* when it does, then you need a real tank or you have real problems and possibly deaths.

That's why, IMO, the primary problem is that too much exp is awarded for fighting monsters that can't hit back.

[Icemage]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

Icemage: What you are overlooking is that those tactics only work when the monster is too weak to do anything about them. Monsters that weak shouldn't be giving good exp in the first place, but they are because the exp table is 14 levels out of date for 75 PTs.

Maybe, maybe not. I've gotten numbers close to 15K/hr out of parties in the low-mid 60s in TP burns as well. It's not just restricted to level 75 merit parties.

As soon as you fight something that *can* get through subbed utsusemi and *hurts* when it does, then you need a real tank or you have real problems and possibly deaths.

Yes, but the observed result is that when every melee in the party can Utsusemi/Third Eye/Zephyr Mantle, the number of actual hits that get through is very low; lower than the damage reduction offered by even a fully pimped DEF tank like a Paladin.

That's why, IMO, the primary problem is that too much exp is awarded for fighting monsters that can't hit back.

I'm not saying this isn't also a problem. But the issue with PLDs (and to a lesser extent, WHMs) has just as much to do with the way parties function, and not just the imbalance in monster difficulty or XP tables.


Icemage

[Raydeus]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

...blah, yadda, yarkitty, blah, yadda...

huh? o.O

I think its just my perspective that every PT I join is an opportunity to learn more about my job and how to play it more effectively. I don't care about my EXP per hour as much as I do learning to function with the full range of jobs in this game.

I've always looked at the jobs that way, I won't refuse a PLD tank in most cases. I'll PT with PUP, DRG, BST or whatever other job this community wants to treat like a bastard stepchild.

Each job has a purpose.
Each job has a role an intended function.
And why refuse a good player EXP just because you can get more elsewhere?

I think its hypocritical and pathetic that people won't invite BLM or PLD to merit these days, yet come crying to them when they need Fafnir tanked or a CoP manaburned.

Support your friends, support your LS members. Fuck the bottom line and just have fun.

What does all that have to do with the usefulness and effectiveness of /NIN xp strategies?

I don't refuse parties with regular and non-burn setups either but that doesn't mean I can't understand why they are preferred.

There's a reason why experienced players have said time and again why TP-burn is so good. And until SE changes the way XP is calculated then killing as many T-VT mobs as you can as fast as possible will remain as the preferred way to make xp.

For that /NIN is the way to go.

I've tanked as a PLD/NIN with a NIN and a THF bouncing hate between us, it was major fun and it allowed me to tank in a burn party (no backup healing or anything).

I would've never been able to do that as /WAR, period.

[Karinya]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

Hmm, OK. Then there are two main problems: too much exp for weak mobs, and offensive jobs/offensively geared NINs avoiding too much damage with Utsu/3Eye. (Zephyr Mantle has a long cast and a longer recast, as well as costing MP, so I don't put it in the same category; anyway, you can't get it by subbing so its impact is limited. It may need reexamination after other problems are fixed, though.)

Basically, I think that a party should not be able to so completely neglect its defense without getting hit for it. But right now they can. All you need is a few shihei and you can wear all the -Eva, -DEF, etc. gear you want, not worry about your hate and still take very little damage. That upsets the basic party dynamic (you want hate to stay on the tank because they're specialized in reducing the damage they take) and causes all sorts of balance problems.

Whether NIN should need to pay attention to their Eva to tank in exp is open to debate - but when every DD can become nearly invulnerable without paying any attention to their def or eva, something is very wrong.

More nerfs to subbed Utsusemi are the obvious first step - maybe only 2 shadows, maybe allowing monsters a chance to see through the shadows based on your ninjutsu skill (which would make it rare for NINs and pretty common for /NINs), maybe something else. Or possibly to all Utsusemi - if the intent is to force tanking NINs to wear more tanking gear and less DD. (This would in turn make hate less secure, demanding more caution from DDs in party and/or a THF. These costs of having a NIN tank balance out the existing costs of a PLD tank - need a refresher for the PLD, more healing, the PLD doesn't do much damage, etc.)

Ironically considering the start of this thread, I don't think PLD or WHM needs the adjustment. Those jobs are balanced already. It's certain other combinations that are way off the curve.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

What if Shadows contributed to DDing and detrimented from Tanking?

The way it would work is, all of the shadows get an attack, like the NIN or /NIN themselves (obviously a lesser effect to the /NINs, based on Ninjutsu skill). Combined with Dual-Wield, you got a machine on automatic fire! Downside? For this gain of Materially damaging your opponent, each shadow will give the real Ninja a relative amount of damage based on the damage that the shadow takes when the shadow is hit (it will still then disappear).

Thousands will cry in outrage at first, but two possible solutions to the /NIN thing is Karinya's above, making it a Blink effect based upon your Ninjutsu, or by making Copy Images offensive (again, based on your Ninjutsu). Because Ninja was pretty much meant for DD, this seems like a viable, if not radical solution.

Oh, and it will make more Meriters want to use Sange, since it will get rid of the shadows without damage to the Ninja, while damaging a mob.

My two cents on the whole Shadow Clone issue. Not that it is the only problem, heck, its far from being the only problem! But, I just wanted to say something about it. Ninjas are more geared towards DD, with only one set of spells that allow them to be tha OMGTANKZORZ that can out-tank a Paladin, even with minimal HP. There are potentially THOUSANDS of other solutions, but this is only one of them.

. . . shutting my mouth now ; ; .

[Raydeus]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

All that "adjusting" Utsusemi and xp gained from T-VT mobs is gonna acomplish is making people quit the game.

Want to make things better? Then IT mobs should give a lot more XP to make them worth killing (IT mobs require SC tactics which would also have a positive impact on regular setup kinda jobs).

That and PLD's crappy defense and vit has to start meaning something, depending so much on Shields and long recast Job Abilities to mitigate damage to acceptable levels is, well, unaccepatable.

SE has to boost regular party setups so they can catch up, not destroy the way of xping that allowed many DD that used to spend days looking for party to get some of the XP mages have enjoyed for so long.

[seq]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

What if Shadows contributed to DDing and detrimented from Tanking?

The way it would work is, all of the shadows get an attack, like the NIN or /NIN themselves (obviously a lesser effect to the /NINs, based on Ninjutsu skill). Combined with Dual-Wield, you got a machine on automatic fire! Downside? For this gain of Materially damaging your opponent, each shadow will give the real Ninja a relative amount of damage based on the damage that the shadow takes when the shadow is hit (it will still then disappear).

Thousands will cry in outrage at first, but two possible solutions to the /NIN thing is Karinya's above, making it a Blink effect based upon your Ninjutsu, or by making Copy Images offensive (again, based on your Ninjutsu). Because Ninja was pretty much meant for DD, this seems like a viable solution.

Oh, and it will make more Meriters want to use Sange, since it will get rid of the shadows without damage to the Ninja, while damaging a mob.

My two cents on the whole Shadow Clone issue.

NIN/WAR with berserk and some decent gear can out DMG any other melee while tanking,specially in the new areas's gimp mobs.
Icemage's party setups suggestion seems good, but again that's at Level75 and the setup itself makes WHM useless.
maybe Haste2 can stop RDMs from replacing WHM for Hasting-healing (oh and the /NIN /SAM thing, idk what are the mages for if they are hasting only >.>;
or reduce Haste1's potency, and give WHMs Haste1,2?
less costy healing spells, maybe a similer trait to BLM's Conserve-MP.

maybe allowing monsters a chance to see through the shadows based on your ninjutsu skill

or maybe Sound/True sight agro should be able to see through utsusimi? as much there is mobs PLD can't tank, why there isn't a mob NIN (or /NIN) can't tank?

[Karinya]

Re: Suggested tweak to pld and whm

Maybe, maybe not. I've gotten numbers close to 15K/hr out of parties in the low-mid 60s in TP burns as well. It's not just restricted to level 75 merit parties.

On real mobs or on lesser colibri? When you have a mob that not only has incredibly low defense and hp but also hits weakly *and* 1/3 of its TP moves do absolutely nothing and another 1/3 do no damage but only cause minor annoyance... well, it's obvious that balance is going to go out the window. Honestly, I don't know what they were thinking when they made those things, unless it was "people think our game is too hard, we better make it 100x easier to get more subscribers".

I'm not saying this isn't also a problem. But the issue with PLDs (and to a lesser extent, WHMs) has just as much to do with the way parties function, and not just the imbalance in monster difficulty or XP tables.

True. Specifically, the way these parties function is to essentially ignore their defense and hate control completely, focus 100% on doing as much damage as possible... and not get hit anyway. That's just insane - it shouldn't be possible. It needs to be fixed and it needs to be fixed soon.

I'm not saying that every party should need a PLD and WHM to make any experience at all. I'm open to reviving the WAR tank, or making it possible for SAM/WAR to tank with Seigan - and as I previously mentioned, I don't object to DD-heavy parties making experience *similar to other party setups*. But every party should need to have *some* players working on defense, or they should take a lot of damage for neglecting it (leading to downtime and an overall kill and exp rate not that different from a normal PT). Avoiding damage shouldn't be free. And the monsters where you can get away with the least attention to your defense should be the monsters who themselves have the most defense (e.g. crabs). Monsters with low defense and hp should have the *most* dangerous attacks. Before TAU, this pattern was almost always borne out - vulnerable monsters like spiders, scorpions and tonberries have attacks so dangerous, most parties are afraid to even get near them. Coeurls have defense, evasion and HP similar to colibris, but the difference between the dangerousness of their attacks is night and day. The overpoweredness of Utsusemi - allowing highly offensive-oriented job combinations and gear setups to avoid almost all damage at basically no cost - greatly exacerbates the problem.


The addition of monsters that are very vulnerable *and* can't attack worth a damn is very, very bad for the game - now it's raining exp and only some jobs have bowls. The fact that it's some of the same jobs that used to have trouble getting parties - not because they were ineffective the way some jobs are now, but simply because there were too many players playing them - only increases the bitter divisions this has caused in the playerbase.

If the balance problems of TAU are not fixed, they will destroy the game in a way the oversupply of DDs never could. Zero was never the ideal number of DDs to have in your party - it IS the ideal number of tanks and healers to have in your party now, and there's a big difference between 30 people competing for 10 slots and 10 people competing for 0 slots.