Why polearm weapons are so screwed?

[seq]

why Polearm weapons are so screwed?
here is a comparison betwen polearms and Axes that share the same NM,ENM,BCNM or whatever else it could be:

notice the incredible STR boost (i know, BSTs STR already suck and need this boost) but notice the DMG:45 too, it's almost the same as Lv70+ Axes's DMG right?
this Axe along with this Polearm weapon drop from the same group of NMs in the Eldieme Necropolis:

CHR+7? ._.
DMG:67? shouldn't be AT LEAST DMG:80+ like the other Level60 polearms?

to the Rune weapons, there are many rune weapons but again i'll pick Axe and Polearm only, Rune Axe:

DMG:45, pretty high for an Axe of that level again.

Rune Halberd:

DMG:68 for a Level70 Polearm?

to the ENM weapons, Maneater:

DMG:49, very good as DMG:50 seem to be the highest of the axes.

and this polearm from the same group:

DMG:71? shouldn't be like Mezraq's DMG or atleast like Driezack's DMG? DMG:87+?

i won't mention Sea's god weapons.

this is a Level 60 polearm weapon if you want to compare it to the Envy spear:

and a Level70 Polearm weapon:

and a Level75 Polearm weapon:

and why this one have a Ranged accuracy boost anyway...

Axes of similer levels to the above mentioned Axes:


Juggernaut
this one have attack+30 too or i'm blind? :/

Woodville's Axe

i know i might get flamed for this, and i know i wrote a similer thread to this one before.
to those who will say most of this polearm weapons are Spear and so they've to have low DMG and low delay because only DRG can equip the lance type weapons bla bla bla, Gondo-Shizunori is a lance and it's DMG is pretty good and it's equipable by SAM not DRG only, Engetsuto have a high DMG almost the same as the lances of the same level and equipable by more than just SAM and DRG, Leviathan's Couse aswell.
the gap betwen Spear and Lance's DMG is so rediculous when compared to other weapons such as Axes's Tabar (Ex: Woodville's Axe), Pick (Ex: Retributor) or Battleaxe (Ex: Maneater).Polearm's Spears like Wyvern Spear, Lance like Orichalcum Lance (or Mezraq).
will changing this spears into lances break the game? Great Axes don't seem to have such varying DMG in it, Scythes don't have a varying DMG too... Great katana aswell don't have varying DMG...
Why only Polearm is having this varying DMG betwen Lances and spears?

[Emurei]

Re: Why polearm weapons are so screwed?

GKs do have a varying damage gap between the Quicker SAM NIN one verses the SAM only one of the same level. Some of the Best obtainable GKs bearly tips or doesn't even go over the 80 damge scale.

[Jei]

Re: Why polearm weapons are so screwed?

I don't think your reasoning for damage is really fair. Take the maneater VS stone-splitter for example. Stone-splitter has roughyly 54% more damage per hit. While only have 40% more delay. Comparing damage over time, stone-splitter comes out on top.

[Drive]

Re: Why polearm weapons are so screwed?

Didn't he make a topic like this before? anyway to answer your question with the pure and honest truth. Spears are ugly, lances look much better. I don't want to swing(or poke) something that is ugly.

[Icemage]

Re: Why polearm weapons are so screwed?

Look at your damage per second rating on those weapons and you'd find they're actually comparable. Your 80+ damage lances are all 25% slower than the ones you deem "weaker".


Icemage

[Karinya]

Re: Why polearm weapons are so screwed?

However, DRG generally prefer the lances because of the higher damage and TP return from jumps and WS. If you look only at damage from normal swings, the low delay spears are actually pretty much even with lances, sometimes even a little ahead. It just so happens that the only job with A polearm also has jumps that benefit from high DMG while not being hurt by high DLY, so that's why the fast spears don't see much use. Well, that and people pay more attention to their WS damage than to their normal damage just because it's easier to see.

I wonder whether it would be worthwhile for WAR and SAM with B polearm to use them on piercing-weak enemies, though; you would lose some ACC and ATK from the skill gap, but possibly make it up with the piercing damage bonus.

[Skoal]

Re: Why polearm weapons are so screwed?

Look at your damage per second rating on those weapons and you'd find they're actually comparable. Your 80+ damage lances are all 25% slower than the ones you deem "weaker".


Icemage

They are not comparable. DPS does not take into consideration the two Jumps and weapon skill damage.

[Emurei]

Re: Why polearm weapons are so screwed?

For SAM nope, polearm is the last on my priority list to level up, even capping Parrying skill for me is higher priority than polearm ;p the GK is a well rounded weapon for all mobs.

Besides DRGs got their "flying blue rat" (inside joke) adding to their DPS ;p

[Vyuru]

Re: Why polearm weapons are so screwed?

It's not so much why are they so screwed really. Look at the lvl 20 cap BCNMs, most of the platoon weapons are inferior to their counterparts, but the Platoon Lance can serve a dragoon all the way up to level 36.

We don't need more weapons, especially in the lvl 60 range, because really it would have to be better or equivilant to the GKL, if it's better people will switch to it and arguements will ensue over people being "gimp" for using the GKL, and which is better. Just look at the Dark Mezraq vs GKL arguements.

Gondo-Shizunori is a lance

Actually no, it's a couse/naginata, so it falls under the spear catergory rather than lance.

I'd also point out that both in the beginning of the game and end game, the quested lances are by far superior to anything else. Platoon Lance beats all other lances hands down for a long time. The Imperial Nezza is practically a lvl 71 Orihalcom lance, obtained for free and a fraction of the time it would take someone to get the gil for the Orihalcom Lance, only thing better might be a Mezraq or the Gugnir.

the gap betwen Spear and Lance's DMG is so rediculous when compared to other weapons such as Axes's Tabar (Ex: Woodville's Axe), Pick (Ex: Retributor) or Battleaxe (Ex: Maneater).

You also have weapons that in the case of axes, cap out at about what, 50 damage, and lances that cap at 92 for lances, not counting relic. They are not the same weapon, the stats they are given are not the same, they are not treated the same, and they should not be compared in the same way.

So no, polearms are not screwed, and I think your comparisons are a bit off.

[raidenn]

Re: Why polearm weapons are so screwed?

I seem to always picture drgs with lances and tall shields. How come SE never allowed shields for drgs?

[KalemLyco]

Re: Why polearm weapons are so screwed?

Y'know it's kind hard poking things with a two handed wespon when holding a shield :/

[raidenn]

Re: Why polearm weapons are so screwed?

Jousters use shields right?

[Legal Fish]

Re: Why polearm weapons are so screwed?

There is like three types of Pole Arms: Spears(including Halberds), Lances, and Courses. Most of the time Spears are weak but available to PLD, SAM, and WAR. Lances are DRG only. And the Couse are like special high-powered ones that allow WAR and SAM to fight with weapons nearly as or as good at Lances.

I think you are addressing a small issue that is the result of two bigger issues:

1) 2-handed weapons blow compared to 1-handed weapons being dual-wielded

2) There are plenty of weapons that are not A(or B for some) for your job and you'll almost never use any of them, yet SE has been pushing multi-job weapons since Day 1. The problem is outside delay and damage, every weapon in the entire game is the same and there are no Weapon Skills for any weapon but Sword that make a non-A/B worth it. Most weapon skills are the same expect for damage and number of attacks, with most add effects entirely pointless.

Now number for 2) : I'm sure there are plenty of creative ways to fix that(one example is giving Polearm and Great Sword PvP-style range all the time); but 1) is a no brainer. When in doubt, copy DnD. 2-handed weapons should have a 25% STR bonus. If you feel "nerfy" give dual wield a -15% STR penalty on main hand and -30% STR on sub hand.

[Celeal]

Re: Why polearm weapons are so screwed?

I am not sure about BST, but at level 75 WAR's Axe skill is A- (capped 269 w/o merit) and DRG's spear is A+ (capped 276 w/o merit). If we factor in capped skill to DPS for those weapons, they should even out a bit (at least in theory).

Now /NIN Dual Weird and /SAM Hasso is very close in terms of speed and damage.

[Raydeus]

Re: Why polearm weapons are so screwed?

Is it just me or the only reason why those weapons listed by the OP have lower damage rating is not only because they are faster, but also because they can be used by other jobs?

That being said I'm 100% behind the idea of increasing the damage rating of weapons like the Rune Halberd, specially since I can equip that as a PLD.

I never liked the idea of DRGs being the only ones who could use high damage polearms anyway.