Besieged: Can we please kill something?

[nanatsu]

Re: Besieged: Can we please kill something?

Is it true that the Megaboss NMs lose defense according to the number of normal monsters you kill? I've been told countless times that the way to defeat the megabosses is to kill enough of the other monsters first, so I've believed it. Just thought I'd ask to be sure.

[Caspian]

Re: Besieged: Can we please kill something?

Is it true that the Megaboss NMs lose defense according to the number of normal monsters you kill? I've been told countless times that the way to defeat the megabosses is to kill enough of the other monsters first, so I've believed it. Just thought I'd ask to be sure.

I've never heard that, but I suppose its possible.
I know the PUP Troll NM gets weaker when you kill his puppets, so it would be plausible for the generals to become weaker the more regular mobs and other nm's you kill.

[Vyuru]

Re: Besieged: Can we please kill something?

Is it true that the Megaboss NMs lose defense according to the number of normal monsters you kill? I've been told countless times that the way to defeat the megabosses is to kill enough of the other monsters first, so I've believed it. Just thought I'd ask to be sure.

I've heard that each Megaboss NM is keyed to certain other NMs. So by defeating them you can get the Megaboss to a point where you can actually deal damage.

For instance I've heard that Medusa is keyed to the other Lamia number X NMs that are around, Medusa cannot be hurt until they are dead.

Don't know if it's true, but that's what I've heard. I'm inclined to believe it though, it doesn't make much sense to me to take down all but 5 mobs before you can kill the megaboss, at that point why not end the besieged?

[raidenn]

Re: Besieged: Can we please kill something?

I would avoid mobs like Sappers, War Wamouras, Aerial Torpedo and certain Puks. Those things are hell. Im actually working on Rng so I can at least attack those things from a distance.

[Caspian]

Re: Besieged: Can we please kill something?

I've heard that each Megaboss NM is keyed to certain other NMs. So by defeating them you can get the Megaboss to a point where you can actually deal damage.
For instance I've heard that Medusa is keyed to the other Lamia number X NMs that are around, Medusa cannot be hurt until they are dead.
Don't know if it's true, but that's what I've heard. I'm inclined to believe it though, it doesn't make much sense to me to take down all but 5 mobs before you can kill the megaboss, at that point why not end the besieged?

I could easily believe that killing the NM's makes them easier, and killing most of them makes them defeatable, but its definately not all of them. The one time I saw a general killed, Lamia 12 was still alive. I believe it was at a point when any more mob deaths meant retreat. I definately know that killing no.12 in place of medusa would have sent them to retreat, the same thing has happened with Trolls, killing the last non-general NM sent them in retreat.
If you did have a server wide plan to kill all the NM's before killing the general, it would take serious coordination, since they'll redraw with more mobs if all the NM's are dead (not counting the general).

[Eohmer]

Re: Besieged: Can we please kill something?

I fought Qulool Ja Ja for the first time today. YAY for me.

We were in the main area fighting Savages before it came out. Once he did, everyone went to attack it. I don't know if any other ones around the zone were downed before fighting it.

We didn't kill it, we just made him retreat with about 90% or so of his health left.

[Macht]

Re: Besieged: Can we please kill something?

I wouldn't be surprised if the ideas about killing the MBs were true. After all part of the reason SE implimented them was because of people wanting stratedgy and a challenge of a mob to kill.

So you can see there it is like there are some tactics. I doubt it's the same tactics because that would just be to obvious. One idea is that possibly the Lamias X could resemble a certain aspect or status of the MB. It could be that the Lamia to weaken the MB is randomized among those numbered. Just seems there could be many possibilities.

I mean just look at EQ and the special fights and win conditions for them. I mean in one fight the win condition is that the 8 bosses have to die within seconds of eachother. In another the win condition is that 1 person out of the present group will get a special message, that message indicates them as being the one needing to accomplish a certain task. In yet another in order to survive the mobs onslaught a message warning of a comming assult is presented and you act in accordance to avoid taking a fatal hit. Hell in an even harder to accomplish win condition two groups that can't see eachother have to kill 2 mobs at the same time, while also having their members being randomly swapped between the two rooms.

So I would think that the MBs of FFXI could easily have varied conditions to make them more manageable. Also seriously on EQ I've seen Clans of 200 people capable of organizing themselves to acomplish a goal, so I know the potential to do it in an MMO is there. It's just a matter of people's attention span and ability to follow orders.

[Sabaron]

Re: Besieged: Can we please kill something?

My biggest point is... with a party consisting of not 75th level uber-merit, geared to the hilt sky gods... I would like to be able to determine which puny, weakling, underling mobs my group can destroy. I would really, really, really, really, really like /check to be enabled on the rank and file.

[Karinya]

Re: Besieged: Can we please kill something?

So I would think that the MBs of FFXI could easily have varied conditions to make them more manageable. Also seriously on EQ I've seen Clans of 200 people capable of organizing themselves to acomplish a goal, so I know the potential to do it in an MMO is there. It's just a matter of people's attention span and ability to follow orders.

But Besieged is not just your linkshell. The problem with trying to kill Besieged MBs is not just that it takes lots of players, coordination and time, but that even a few people who are trying to win the battle will do so long before you can finish the MB. You have to convince practically *everyone* in the zone to leave everything else alive and drag out Besieged for an extra half hour or more. Including people who have no language in common with you.

The rewards for killing the MB are so small compared to the extra effort required that a substantial number of people are almost always going to say "screw that, we're winning the battle NOW" and you can't stop them from doing so. Hell, I'm usually one of them. There's any number of fun HNM fights in the game but the besieged bosses aren't really one of them. Too much lag, spam and one-hit KOs.


This suggests three obvious lines of attack if SE wants to see more people defeating the MBs. One is to make them not take so damn long to kill; reducing the HP of a mob will make the fight shorter but not usually easier. This would make killing the MB a *good* way to win the besieged, instead of the slowest and most inefficient way possible.

The second is to make them give rewards big enough that everyone in the Besieged will want to see them killed rather than just win the fight with them retreating. (Half to two thirds of the people going after the MB while everyone else fights normal mobs isn't enough, because that's what we have now and the MBs almost always retreat alive.) At the moment I can't think of anything they could give that would be big enough to get players' interest without also being a major disruption to the economy (for example, giving everyone present 100k gil is probably a bad idea); giving out more IS would just devalue imperial currency as players are already running out of things to spend their IS on.

The third, of course, would be to make the beastmen never retreat while the MB is alive. This would force the MB to be killed for every level 6 besieged; it would often be the last mob standing but it *would* be killed.